Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Nashville, TN USA
Posts: 30

I'm torn between IIIc and Visor Deluxe.
Two issues: color and ROM.
Anybody have any idea for color Visor?
Anybody have details on ROM for Visor, as 2MB on IIIc is upgradable?
Thanks for any info.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

Camper,
conventional wisdom (i.e. Visor-owner wisdom) says:

1. Battery life of the IIIc is lousy - this is because of color.

2. Flash-ROM is a non-issue as:
A. The operating system (3.1h?) is "good enough".
B. Minor differences can be applied as patches in RAM.
C. Major OS upgrades are likely to require new hardware anyway.

3. Cost - There are no killer-apps for color, so for the "neat-o" factor of color, you're paying an awful lot for a 2MB PDA. OK, games might induce a person to buy color. But for my money, I'd get a Color GameBoy.

4. Another difference - batteries. IIIc has built-in rechargable (right?), Visor has replacable AAA (which can be rechargable or alkaline). This point doesn't strike me as pro or con for either machine, just different.


Terminology Note:
You're really talking about Flash ROM. Every Visor has normal (non-Flash) ROM - it just means Read Only Memory. The "Flash" is what makes it upgradable. Palm has it, Visor does not.

As for timetable for Handspring color, there are not even reliable rumors, at least not available to the general public.


I make no pretenses of being unbiased. I own a Visor Deluxe and think it's great, and at a great price.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 72

actually, i believe the IIIc has 8mb. but i hear the screen is bad. Good enough, but not nearly as good as when compared to a win ce device.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Posts: 146

PDAENVY,

1) The battery thing is personal choice. However, the battery isn't lousy. I have a IIIc and I love the internal battery. The charge lasts for 8 hours of constant use on the highest brightness setting as tested by Red-Mercury. Besides, the unit's battery is topped off every time I sync, so battery life, for me anyway, is a non-issue. Besides, I don't have to buy batteries anymore! BTW, in case you're wondering about my usage, I'd say I use the device about 1.5-2 hours a day.

2) Again, Flash ROM is a personal call. I have upgrades the OS on my IIIx 2 times now, and will again when 3.5 is released. OS upgrades are not always accompanied by newer hardware, either. Also, some utitilities, like JackFlash or Flash PRO, allow a user to use Flash memory to back up important databases. Therefore, it's useful that way too.

3) The Palm IIIc is 8mb, as skaman35 mentioned. Besides, there are tons of "killer-apps" for the IIIc. Check out http://www.palmgear.com/software/an...;colorenabled=1 for a list of them. I think the only reason you say that there aren't any is either because you haven't looked, or don't want to admit it because you're stuck in mono.

Finally, I will say I appreciate the statement at the bottom of your post that mentions you don't claim to be un-biased because the points you mention seem very biased (just like the ones I just made do just the same).

Overall, I will say that the Visor will do most of what the IIIc will do, just without color and Flash ROM. But we've been over that, haven't we?

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Nashville, TN USA
Posts: 30

Thanks mucho for responses. I've used a Pilot 1000 with 2mb upgrade (pagercard) since the dawn of PDA-time. I looked at the Visor yesterday. I admire the crap out of the Springboard slot. But I can't get the idea out of my mind that I want more out my upgrade than another mono screen. But I love the low-profile of the Eyemodule, and would love consolidating my separate audio recorder for reminders into the six-pack or the Sycom recorder for Springboard. As a developer I wonder if having a Visor might not open more product development discussions. Like if potential client that might want barcode via Springboard module (Symbols are so $$$). Would that client still be interested if I showed him a Palm (even if barcode is available for Palm, it's not as slick as a Springboard, that for same client can serve other needs too). Color can open development conversations too, with people like my wife who hates mono PDA screens. There are going to be those potential clients who just don't like mono, like a lawyer I know that just bought IIIc. Would clients like that stay interested if I showed them a possible product in mono?

On the one hand, I don't know if my next unit shouldn't be color. On the other hand, I don't know if my next unit can be without audio and modularity.

WinCE/PocketPC? nah...can of worms, really chewy worms lately (ugh what a visual, sorry).

Oh! The IIIc screen looks lovely to me. I have to decide when that is material for me, outside of the (however basic) photography. It really makes for pleasant viewing, even of simple character data on the screen...but how pleasant does my Palm viewing _need_ to be?

Gimme a color Visor.

[This message has been edited by PDACamper (edited 04-13-2000).]

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 94

Pdacamper,
I went through something similar to you when i got my visor a few weeks ago. I actually waited till the IIIc came out so I could see it in real life, before making my decision. I ordered the visor a few days after seeing the IIIc.

My biggest gripe was how little value the IIIc has (for me) for the price. Essentially you're paying 200 dollars more for the color screen. Functionally it's the same as a IIIxe. And when it's compared to a WinCe device, it looks almost pathetic. I don't like wince, but they look more promising then the IIIc, more versatile fuller features.

Now that I've had my visor for a few weeks, I was thinking about whether I had made the right decision. I happened to be in a officemax the other day and saw the iiic display. I started thinking about how I use my visor everyday, i check my todo, look up phone numbers, check my account balance, look over my budget, maybe play a game of tetris or tiger woods. And i realized that very little that I do requires color. It'd be nice to play games in color, or highlight text or memos to make them stand out, but it's not neccessary.

Another plus is, if i ever lost my visor I'd be upset, but I'd get over it since i have a backup module with all my data. Oh and for batteries, i use rechargeable nimh batteries, they cost about $2.50 a piece. good for almost 2 weeks at about 30 minutes a day. Hawkeye is a heavy user! I can't imagine using it for 1.5-2 hours daily!

Now after my tirade against color, I have to agree that if handspring came out with a color visor WITH springboard slot for around 450 then I'd buy it too, why? cuz of the huge value. People seem to under estimate how slick the springboard module really is.
and since i have a visor now maybe i'll be able to use my modules in the color one


Minh

sorry for the rambling.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Tonka Bay, MN USA
Posts: 36

Where can you buy a black and white monitor computer today? Nowhere. I've been around long enough to recognize the same old same old. Only today it is the PDA. A few years ago it was laptops. Before that it was desktops. Apple's delay in bringing color to the Mac nearly did them in. Color will be essential and within two years there will no longer be black and white PDAs. This is a no brainer. Color is the future whether you think you need it or not, and it will open up greater potential for the devices.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 341

I agree on 'the future' however to these eyes the color as rendered on the 160 x160 res IIIC is hideous. Is actually hurts my eyes because of the pixellation.

Mike

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Here's my suggestion, which is a partisan as anyone's: get the Visor. Since Handspring's licensed the color OS from Palm, I would estimate 18 months max for a color Visor release. By then you'll have a lot of cool Springboards to pop in you color Visor.

I tend to solve dilemmas by the minimum regret principle: would you rather make a $250 mistake or a $450 mistake?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 90

Davydd,

Yes... the *future* will be color, but in two year's time the color screens will be much higher res and much cheaper. And who knows what other neat features will be standard in two years time....(bluetooth anyone..?)

Until there is a color Visor with at least 640x640 res for $300, I'm happy to take the price/preformance benefits of the greyscale.

And besides... has anyone seen how *BIG* the IIIc is...?? All that bulk just for a color screen - no thanks

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

Hawkeye,

I went to your link for color apps, and I've moved my opinion somewhat in your direction. I'd say there seem to be some nice color apps that actually get added functionality from color (FireViewer is nice for toting around color images, TealPaint sounds good in color, screendumps of StockManager's charts look great in color).

But for the most part, the color apps are:

a. games - fine, but I'd still go GameBoy
b. colorized apps with little or no value added by color.


As for having my opinion because I'm "stuck in mono" (greyscale actually):
as my handle suggests, I get envious of new stuff - right now I just don't see much more than cool factor for color. If I did, I'd be begging Handspring (here on VC and in email) to make a color unit and allow for trade ins.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 7

I currently own a Palm IIIxe and it works great for me. I too have seen a IIIc and I am going to buy a Pocket PC when I want (want not need) color. I'll keep the palm, ( I love it! ) but the new Pocket PC OS looks very promising and the hardware is also very cool. (Compaq Ipaq handheld) Just my thoughts...

[This message has been edited by BRH1 (edited 04-13-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 105

I have a Palm V and all OS updates have done nothing to enhance the original 3.1 operating system it shipped with.

OS 3.3:
Faster Synching - Will never beat a Visor's USB
Enhanced HotSynching - Okay, they added IR synching which is good for some. If you REALLY need it, you can buy a program for $20 to give it to you on the Visor
Enhanced IR - Available as a patch from Palm

OS 3.5:
Command Bar - It was annoying looking for the tiny icons, its just easier to learn the letter that goes with the command and write it in with Graffiti.
Extra Datebook View - Its nice, but all it does is show your todos and appointments. This can be done on older OSs with a seperate program called WhatzUp and doesn't force me to fool around with views.
Menu Bar - You can click on the programs title and the menu bar comes down. I've used MenuHack for some time that does the same thing.

The only real use for Flash is to run programs like Jack Flash or FlashPro, that extra RAM makes my Palm V useable.

The second advantage is that 3.3+ support PQAs, but you have to jump through a few hoops to get them unless you have a friend who owns a Palm VII.


------------------
-Matthew Nichols
[email protected]
http://www.extremebleem.cjb.net

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Nashville, TN USA
Posts: 30

Thanks mucho for great ideas. My first post, nice group!
Keep opinions coming, please!

Another note: I own HP 680, but don't think it a PDA but mini-subnotebook...different beast altogether..it might go bye-bye if my Palm 1000 replacement with modem is 'enough'.

Hey, maybe this darn 680 with color screen is the thing that has me thinking about IIIc or (insisting on )color Visor.
A 'published' article I wrote about using 680 and 1000 is here http://www.interpug.com/npug/articles/pdausage.htm
Anyway, at the link above in the article I echo what mxgian has said "And i realized that very little that I do requires color."
Just because I wrote about this issue somewhat in that article, doesn't mean I have it figured out...I wrote that before the IIIc came out.

Perhaps I'm thinking (subconsiously, you know we PDA freeks need shrinks!) that if I upgrade the 1000 and dump the 680, that I 'must' get color out of the deal. "Is there a PDA-shrink in the house?" ;->

I think the 680 has this ability to 'draw me into' more lengthy sessions than my Palm with mono. Yes it's wider screen and I jam on the keyboard, but color has 'something' to do with it. The backlite white background is very nice.

Do the IIIc owners feel the same way, do you feel 'drawn into' what are to you 'better' user sessions with your Palm IIIc?

I may need to hang with the old 1000 for a while, keep up on the Springboard news, and hope that a Pocket PC doesn't tempt me (so far as a developer and a user, I don't think so, that Compaq looks 'tasty' but it don't do Springboards). This link has good info about what a few developers think http://www.pdabuzz.com/Discussion/F...TML/000089.html

Hey-that I haven't rushed out and claimed a IIIc probably says something in itself, don't it? I haven't rushed out for a Visor either, but I move slow, and the 1000 does the basic job.

[This message has been edited by PDACamper (edited 04-13-2000).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Hillsboro, OR, USA
Posts: 64

quote:

---

Originally posted by mxgian:
Pdacamper,
Now after my tirade against color, I have to agree that if handspring came out with a color visor WITH springboard slot for around 450 then I'd buy it too, why? cuz of the huge value. People seem to under estimate how slick the springboard module really is.
and since i have a visor now maybe i'll be able to use my modules in the color one

---

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

Tequila - - While I too am getting impatient waiting for all the promised SMs to ship, I wouldn't be so quick to downplay the value and utility of the Backup Module and the Modem Module. For those of us who bought into the Visor for computing on the go, these two SMs are a big deal. Also, because I carry a ton of reference material (OK. And some novels! ), I think that the 8MB Flash Module is pretty slick.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 391

quote:

---

2) Again, Flash ROM is a personal call. I have upgrades the OS on my IIIx 2 times now, and will again when 3.5 is released. OS upgrades are not always accompanied by newer hardware, either.

---

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Nashville, TN USA
Posts: 30

Thanks much everyone.
I do wish for quick releases of these modules, they so validate the reasons for going for a Visor. Love seeing the EyeModule release just today.
Thanks for the ROM clarifications. Having OS 3.0.1 on my Pilot 1000 (via Synapse card) seems to be well enough for me. And before that the patch files seemed well enough.
Still on the color fence.....Bob