Toby
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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by mrjoec
Thanks for proving my point.
Your point doesn't seem to have been clear then. There was nothing aggrssive about my post unless you're projecting something into it. I simply disagree with many of your assertions.quote:
And I'm willing, by the way, to bet you my first born son that Apple won't have an iMac with an even bigger screen by Christmas.
Don't know...don't particularly care. I simply said I wouldn't be surprised to see one. I wouldn't be surprised not to see one either of course. OTOH, I would be extremely surprised _not_ to see a comparable machine with a bigger flat panel from a Wintel maker.quote:
You're right. Apple is beginning to target customers outside of its loyal small base. But if you get past the marketing lingo and listen to what Jobs himself has said, you realize that the end goal is not to target ALL of the Windows users, but a small, easily convertible group of them that Apple can keep.
Yeah, about 5%. I never said he was targetting all wintel users.quote:
The new iMac has already been sold to more than 150,000 people. Many of which were not Apple owners prior to that purchase.
Wonderful. Meanwhile, Dell sold 150,000 computers this morning.quote:
I'd say the machine is fine as is.
I think it's 'fine' too. It could be better, though.quote:
Better to make sure those ex-Windows users are happy with their machine than to lose them by offering others something better.
Funny. I'd think it'd be better to get even more ex-Windows users happy by offering them something better. What do I know, though. I only have a degree in business.quote:
Apple doesn't believe in simply selling someone a computer. They believe in giving someone a better quality of life, so that they'll buy twenty computers over the span of their lives, and have children who will buy their computers, and grandchildren, and so on.
I thought you were trying to cut through all of their spin and marketing lingo.quote:
You ask if I've bought anything from Dell lately. Of course I haven't. They're worse than Handspring when it comes to dropping prices left and right.
Yes, and they're obviously very successful at it. Thanks for proving my point.quote:
I understand that they're trying to stay one step ahead of the so-called "PC price war" but they're ultimately shooting themselves in the foot, unless they can afford to lose money long enough for every other company to go belly-up.
Newsflash: Dell is _profitable_. They're not losing money.quote:
Even then, though, they're going to have 0% customer loyalty.
All the customer surveys I've ever seen disagree with you strongly.quote:
You buy a computer and EXPECT the price to go down in two weeks. That's sad, if you ask me. I've never bought a computer that had its price dropped less than eight months after its original introduction. If I had, I wouldn't go back and buy another one from the same company.
And the point that I was trying to make is that that's obviously not the normal consumer reaction in the technology sector.quote:
Dell's success has nothing to do with good marketing by Dell;
That's preposterous. Marketing is definitely not the only (or even the main) reason, but even Dell's annoying 'Steven' ads are quite effective with increasing brand awareness.quote:
it has everything to do with basic human fear of doing something different from what everyone else does.
As opposed to basic human arrogance in thinking that one has a better solution if only the masses weren't such sheep? That's Marxism 101, not Business 101.quote:
Once Microsoft loses its stranglehold on the computer industry (which is inevitable eventually�every empire rises and falls) companies like Dell are as good as gone, because people only buy there because they're cheap, and everyone else has one. Catering to cheap people is a great way to get a lot of customers short-term, but it's a lousy way to keep any of them for long.
So what makes you think that a company who can remain profitable only selling to 'cheap sheep' is going out of business? Do you think that the people are likely to change? If they're so scared of doing something different, that seems highly unlikely.quote:
And the group-think mentality that Dell is banking on is sort of like pop music.
Dell is like a pop radio station? Maybe, it's trendy, ubiquitous, and it's never going to go away.quote:
When was the last time you heard a Thompson Twins song on the radio?
Last week while scanning the stations.quote:
Or Hootie and the Blowfish?
Probably about the same time.quote:
How about Motely Crue?
That would probably be at least a month.quote:
These bands sold millions of records, but now most people would be embarrassed to be caught with their CDs.
Maybe shallow people would be. I own a couple of Motley Crue cassettes.quote:
They were extraordinarily successful for a year or two, but the following year they were all flipping burgers at the local Jack in the Box.
Seems to me that Motley Crue was still touring last year.quote:
If you want to find out how good a band really is, check them out when they're making their 14th album. If enough people are still listening to you after that long, then you must have captured your audience on an emotional level that few bands can.
Umm...by that measure Dell is pretty damned successful. They've been around for quite a while now.quote:
[...] Now look at companies like Apple. Thirty years later, and still chugging along nicely.
You must have not been paying attention for most of that 'thirty year' time span. It's only since Jobs returned that they've started to recover.quote:
Sure, they only have 5% of the market, but that 5% isn't going anywhere. Ever. They will eat, breathe, and sleep Mac until the day they die. And they will breed the next generation of loyal followers. Why? Because Apple knows how to keep customers (mid-nineties notwithstanding).
Would that be the mid-nineties where they lost the previous marketshare that they'd 'never' lose?quote:
They make the best products in their class, and they don't pull stupid price reduction tricks, as other computer makers do.
No, they have totally different stupid tricks.quote:
They also don't cater to cheap people. I think that's the thing that upsets PC people the most about Apple. They can't understand brand loyalty. They blow it off, calling Apple fans Mac Zealots! or making insinuations about Religion.
Meanwhile the Mac 'loyalists' don't understand that PC people understand brand loyalty just as well as they do, and they call the PC people 'sheep' and make insinuations about intelligence.quote:
But there's no hocus pocus going on there. It's a simple matter of capturing that minority of people in the world who are willing to pay a little extra to get something better. And then making sure you always give them something better.
Do they make the salesmen watch a video for weeks on end while dripping water on their foreheads?quote:
I guess it depends on your definition of success. Personally, I'd rather be a multi-billion dollar, relatively successful corporation for fifty years or more than the number one corporation for a few years, then have to close my doors in bankruptcy when my cheap customer base runs to the next best thing.
You really don't know anything about business, do you?quote:
Either way, I'd end up a billionaire for life, but I'd feel much better knowing that my company did right by its people, and stayed alive as a result. I'd want a legacy to pass on to my kids. I'd want to have some kind of pride in what I had done.
Maybe we should agree to check back in five years when Jobs leaves Apple again and they go into the toilet.quote:
You're right about one thing.
Probably more than one, but you've already got your conclusions decided upon, so I won't expect you to grok the others.quote:
We are talking Psychology here. And even more so Sociology. But as far as I'm concerned, that's the cornerstone of good business. He or she that understands the human animal that is your customer base, and understands how that animal will react to your every move and the moves of all the other animals around him will be the most successful company in the long haul. I think Handspring is losing sight of this. And that worries me, because at one time, I felt a great deal of loyalty to them.
One should never feel too much loyalty to an inanimate object which exists for the sole reason of making money. But then again, I've actually had that business training which you claim to think is so valuable.
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02-20-2002 05:57 PM
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