Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Penn State
Posts: 116

quote:

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Originally posted by chungmike
I'm looking forward to see what develops in the next year.

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You mean this coming year, right? HS may not even exist next year if they lose in this gamble.

Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 16

Re: DoomMongers Unite!

quote:

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Originally posted by WorldCTZen
Hmm.. Well, at least Keefer had a moderately positive attitude about the news..

Ya'll are reacting as if HS said they were SHUTTING DOWN! They are taking an evolutionary leap in their product line, not abandoning the handheld market. While the terminology is now "communicator" (Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life here...) vs "organizer" the device will still largely be the same..

Will your Prism,Neo,Pro,Single,Word,Palm become totally obsolete? Lemme see.. Obsolete: no longer capable of being used as it cannot function in the current environment.. Gee, doesn't sound much like that's gonna happen anytime soon to our devices.. ask anyone still using a VDx, like, say, ME!

I can still use the thing. Apps are still being written that work on it. Except for some newer features that require updated OS/hardware, it's still working just as well as when I bought it.. Ok, so I can't use the latest features.. That is NOT obsolescence.

So, what are we talking about here? The end of Handspring and Palm devices? NO! The end of Springboards? That hasn't been said, and until HS says so, is merely speculation. While the current form factor may be abandoned, the capability to add peripherals to your handheld will remain.. either as a SD or CF plugin for now, or perhaps a new device specific format. But your current springboards will continue to work with your present Visor flavor of choice.

Seems to me what Ms. Dubinsky DID say is that HS is gonna be focusing on wireless enabled handhelds, meaning some REAL INNOVATION like all you whiners have been puling for lately. She practically butters your bread for you, and you complain cause its wheat and not white..

'Nuff said.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 16

Re: DoomMongers Unite!

quote:

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Originally posted by WorldCTZen
Hmm.. Well, at least Keefer had a moderately positive attitude about the news..

Ya'll are reacting as if HS said they were SHUTTING DOWN! They are taking an evolutionary leap in their product line, not abandoning the handheld market. While the terminology is now "communicator" (Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life here...) vs "organizer" the device will still largely be the same..

Will your Prism,Neo,Pro,Single,Word,Palm become totally obsolete? Lemme see.. Obsolete: no longer capable of being used as it cannot function in the current environment.. Gee, doesn't sound much like that's gonna happen anytime soon to our devices.. ask anyone still using a VDx, like, say, ME!

I can still use the thing. Apps are still being written that work on it. Except for some newer features that require updated OS/hardware, it's still working just as well as when I bought it.. Ok, so I can't use the latest features.. That is NOT obsolescence.

So, what are we talking about here? The end of Handspring and Palm devices? NO! The end of Springboards? That hasn't been said, and until HS says so, is merely speculation. While the current form factor may be abandoned, the capability to add peripherals to your handheld will remain.. either as a SD or CF plugin for now, or perhaps a new device specific format. But your current springboards will continue to work with your present Visor flavor of choice.

Seems to me what Ms. Dubinsky DID say is that HS is gonna be focusing on wireless enabled handhelds, meaning some REAL INNOVATION like all you whiners have been puling for lately. She practically butters your bread for you, and you complain cause its wheat and not white..

'Nuff said.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 248

Well, modules that exist in Japan don't really help a midwestern boy stuck in a corn field. Some of the mods people have done to the Visor are amazing...however, I'm a DBA, not a engineer, and have no desire to void the warranty by taking it apart to try something out...although I applaud those that do.

The farthest I got was building a GoType adapter for my Edge...nor do I really want to import technology with no drivers...my Edge is a tool I need on a minute by minute basis...so I need out of the box compatability.

My CF reference was a direct comparasion to the Handera 330 and to a lesser degree the PPC. If Handera's new color unit looks good, I'll come back to Palm land...but I'd have to be convinced that Handera & Palm were truly innovating hardware again.

The Sony's are pretty, but again, the MS just screams betamax to me. And man are add ons pricey!

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Here
Posts: 213

Re: Re: Smart Move

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
I know far more people that change phones every year than PDAs every year

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: Re: Re: Smart Move

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Originally posted by george_vc
This enhances my point,

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Sorry, but it doesn't. Those people do that because cellphones are relatively cheap.

quote:

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that there is more market opportunity in the wireless market than in the organizer market.

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Not at $400 _with_ a contract there isn't.

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GSM alone there is over a 600 million user base.

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How many of those people paid more than US$100 for their phone?

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Let the Sony's and Palms scrape what little margins and market opportunity exist in the handheld organizer department.

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And let Handspring try and eke out a niche playing against the _real_ big boys like Nokia et al. Hmmm... maybe Handspring execs can start making money by getting speeding tickets in Finland. Their fines would be negative, so Finland would have to pay _them_.

quote:

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Who is "we"?

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Erm... You and I. We (you and I) agreed on the snippet that I quoted right before I said that.

quote:

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Are you posting for others besides yourself?

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Not that I'm aware of.

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Here
Posts: 213

Maybe I am reading into this but, I think you have some concerns about HS being successful with a relatively high cost deliverable (Treo). I believe that their Treo is really a bridge product from the PDA to the wireless world. With greater volume potential in the wireless market, volumes drive costs down if successful. What I also think that HS brings to the market that other providers like Nokia and Ericson do not is building relationship management with the corporate environment thru themselves and partners. HS is clearly trying to get into this enterprise environment. I also think that HS has good skills in learning about usability, I think Hawkins has strengths here and communicates that to his development organization. If they can work into this market and build the right business relationships they might have products that appeal to various people from low end products. I've spent much time in Europe and Japan and have noticed how differently people use their wireless devices. Japan likes music built in, and picture capabilities in the Docomo environment. The main application is messaging, especially with teenage girls. In Denmark and Sweden, I see lots of messaging and voice. The U.S. is quite underdeveloped in the wireless environment compared to many parts of the world, I think this is also why HS is targeting UK, and perhaps Germany initially. Anyway, not without challenges, I believe that HS has a good chance at establishing itself in this market. You have GOT to believe that Nokia and others are taking a serious look at the Treo and HS as an upcoming competetor in their sand box.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by george_vc
Maybe I am reading into this but, I think you have some concerns about HS being successful with a relatively high cost deliverable (Treo).

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Here
Posts: 213

We don't really know that HS has all of their eggs in the treo basket. For all we know they could have a $129 SMS banging machine in the works with a full keyboard and no PDA functions to sell to all of the teenie boppers. I don't really see Nokia presence in the Corporate Enterprise business for business applications that is. I agree they have the wireless infrastructure relationships. I see a move afoot with their products in "interoperability" between TDMA, GSM etcas their next big trend, but heck, Nokia has 60,000 employees to feed and needs to make 8 or 9 billion per quarter, compared to HS 400 person base. Everyone basically outsources the MFG after development. HS sucks at knowing how to build the wireless antenna part and needs to look to others. HS has the lead on knowing how to build a web based wireless functions in my opinion. This is definitely a space to watch. I think that HS will get at least 400/60,000 of nokia's market share in the wireless environment.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Penn State
Posts: 116

Re: Re: Re: Smart Move

quote:

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Originally posted by george_vc

This enhances my point, that there is more market opportunity in the wireless market than in the organizer market. GSM alone there is over a 600 million user base. Let the Sony's and Palms scrape what little margins and market opportunity exist in the handheld organizer department.

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Last edited by hxh167 on 01-16-2002 at 10:05 PM

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Mililani, HI, USA
Posts: 256

quote:

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Originally posted by george_vc
We don't really know that HS has all of their eggs in the treo basket.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

I'm wondering....

I'm wondering when HS made this decision? I doubt they had a board meeting yesterday morning and Dub made the announcement that quickly. This has to have been something that has been in the works for months. You don't abandon a core business unless you do tons and tons of study into it.

Bottom line, they are abandoning a bunch of users and developers to probably try to save the company. If you own HS stock, I'd be looking at selling it. I don't think the Treo is going to be THAT big of a step forward in PCS services. Hell, I won't push out the $200 for the SprintPCS Phone right now (in a recession). Why the hell do these guys think that I'm going to dump $400 on a cell phone & PDA combined?

I really wish I would have heard about this before I bought my new Neo just after Christmas. Maybe Best Buy will take it back and I'll grab myself a Clie....

B

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by george_vc
We don't really know that HS has all of their eggs in the treo basket.

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Sure, and we don't 'really know' if the light goes out when you close the refrigerator door, but when all of the available evidence points in that direction, it's a safe bet.

quote:

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For all we know they could have a $129 SMS banging machine in the works with a full keyboard and no PDA functions to sell to all of the teenie boppers.

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Which would get its @$$ handed to it by the Motorola Pagers which do the same thing over a wider coverage area for next to nothing.

quote:

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I don't really see Nokia presence in the Corporate Enterprise business for business applications that is.

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How many businessmen do you see that don't have cellphones? Calling people _is_ business application.

quote:

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I agree they have the wireless infrastructure relationships. I see a move afoot with their products in "interoperability" between TDMA, GSM etcas their next big trend, but heck, Nokia has 60,000 employees to feed and needs to make 8 or 9 billion per quarter, compared to HS 400 person base.

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Except that Nokia usually makes it.

quote:

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Everyone basically outsources the MFG after development. HS sucks at knowing how to build the wireless antenna part and needs to look to others. HS has the lead on knowing how to build a web based wireless functions in my opinion. This is definitely a space to watch. I think that HS will get at least 400/60,000 of nokia's market share in the wireless environment.

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I think they'd be lucky to get 0.5%.

Registered: Apr 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

Get a grip people

Springboards have not caught on. They never will. Even most
people who have VISORS never use them for anything other than memory. Spingboards sold the kind of person who hangs here, but you are a minority.
THEY ARE JUST TOO BIG FOR SIMPLE MEMORY. You cannot do a slim model with a springboard properly. The "Edge" with a spingboard is just lame, the reason why it has not sold well. Give it the tiny alternatives for memory expansion (sd) and it would work. Handspring is second to Palm for 1 reason. They were a cheaper alterative to Palm. Sony is coming on strong in this space. If they stayed there Sony would crush it out of existence.

PEOPLE, even if Handspring stuck to non connected devices they would have abandoned your beloved springboards.

I say take advantage of this blunder, (I agree the early anouncement will hurt visor sales during the transition.) If you keep your device you will get your spingboards at a reasonable price for the first time ever. If you upgrade you can make an educated decision knowing the Visor line is dying. They did you a favor.

Let me tell you about the Treo. It is so much better than current phone/PDA combos it aint funny. I've seen it, I've fondled it in my own hands. I saw it a comdex. EVERYONE who tries it LOVES it. That is why EVERY reviewer is fawning over it.
Soon enough they will release one with an SD slot.

Bottom line-
It just works.
It will be a monster.

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 366

I guess I might as well throw my opinion out here:

I am also suprised that Handspring made this announcement. Without a clear statement on whether future Treos will include Springboard expansion or expansion of any kind, this really puts the future of module makers up in the air. It also put the current slate of Visors in a world of hurt with all this talk that they may not be around for long. Handspring needs to come out and state the future of springboards, themselves and not internet trolls, so that module makers can make alternative business plans. Some are already doing that. PIT, the maker of the Memplug, for example is selling their PiDirect software to Clie, Sony, and Palm users with PiBackup to be available to them soon. I would not suprised if Kopsis does the same kind of thing.

I think a better idea would be to slightly modify their buisness plan. First, sell the Neo or something similar at $100-150. Sell a color device at $150-200. Sell a thin, color, but non-connected device at $250 and a greyscale wireless device (Treo 180) at $250. Sell a color wireless device (Treo 270) at $350. Finally sell a really souped up, mega device (wireless, relatively thin, color, dual expansion slot, the works) at $450. In short, have non-wireless devices at the mid-range or less and wireless devices at mid-range and up. The wireless devices would be the innovative devices (first with 32 MB, first HS w/ high res, first HS with OS 5, etc.) and these features would trickle down to non-wireless devices a year and a half later.

Just a thought

__________________
Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Yes.
Posts: 358

Go to the audio transcript of the HS conference call at http://biz.yahoo.com/cc/5/12625.html. Fast forward to 44:00, where they talk about future revenue expectations. The CFO? states by around 45:05 that the organizer production will begin to ramp down by March, as they ramp up Treo production. This is a lot sooner than I expected. How do you all interpret that clip from the conference call?

__________________
That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 216

quote:

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Originally posted by volcanopele
PIT, the maker of the Memplug, for example is selling their PiDirect software to Clie, Sony, and Palm users with PiBackup to be available to them soon. I would not suprised if Kopsis does the same kind of thing.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 366

quote:

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Originally posted by slotmachine
Go to the audio transcript of the HS conference call at http://biz.yahoo.com/cc/5/12625.html. Fast forward to 44:00, where they talk about future revenue expectations. The CFO? states by around 45:05 that the organizer production will begin to ramp down by March, as they ramp up Treo production. This is a lot sooner than I expected. How do you all interpret that clip from the conference call?

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__________________
Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 366

quote:

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Originally posted by volcanopele


I can't find that segment. At about 45min, they are talking about carrier subsidies and the difference between HS email solution and RIM's push technology.

Jason

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__________________
Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Yes.
Posts: 358

quote:

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Originally posted by volcanopele


I can't find that segment. At about 45min, they are talking about carrier subsidies and the difference between HS email solution and RIM's push technology.

Jason

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__________________
That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.