Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Time to bring back the weekly topic. A friend of mine forwarded me this CNN article on how a Palm VII saved the day for a road warrior. The scary part of the article was this:

quote:

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As I headed toward Milwaukee, I fumbled in my bag for the Palm VII. I've never written with a stylus while driving and it suddenly dawned on me that this was truly the Information Superhighway, accessing the Web at 70 mph. I entered my location and WTMJ's address into the MapQuest application on the Palm VII.

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James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Legislating a ban on cell phone use while driving seems unrealistic, since most people who would vote an such an initiative are probably guilty of the practice in the first place. Rather than broadly ban the use of cell phones, it would make more sense to ban the use of handsets, which interfere with the driver's stop/swerve reflexes.

An alternative to legislation would be for insurance providers to revise the policies. For instance, payouts could be downgraded or even voided if handsets were found to be the culprit in an accident. This would encourage people to use a headset.

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Mundelein, Illinois, USA
Posts: 25

It's the driving, dang it!

Laws against cellphone usage while driving are very foolish, even ones that exempt headset and speakerphone users. Many, some would say most, drivers are incompetent while stone cold sober with both hands on the wheel and both eyes on the road.

Other drivers who are okay without phones are unsafe even using a headset, due to getting distracted by the conversation.

The same goes for PDA usage.

At least in Chicagoland, police don't seem to enforce the existing laws against bad driving unless it causes an accident, or involves speeding or disobeying a traffic signal. Improper lane usage, failure to signal, inattention, all seem to be consistently overlooked.

Instead of attacking the problem (poor driving and inattention) the blasted lawmakers are attacking the symptoms (cellphones, PDAs and other distractions).

There. Rant complete. Thank you, I feel better.

Ideally, I could put on my headset and say something like "Call Joe Customer." My phone, if it didn't know Mr. Customer's phone number, would use a Bluetooth connection to my PDA to extract the number and call it.

I think that many folks will continue to dislike the Visorphone, PDQ and similar devices because the ideal form factor of a PDA is by necessity larger than the ideal form factor of a phone.

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Michael A. Atkinson
<[email protected]>

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 92

Although driving while using a cellphone isn't illegal here, is is against the highway code. That's not a legal document, but breaking it can be cited in evidence that you were driving without 'due care and attention.'

This may be a reasonable compromise.

However, there are a lot of twits who drive around with a cellphone squeezed under their shoulder, barely able to steer while they change gear (rememer, this is the UK - we have massive cellphone ownership,and many more manual transmissions than auto).

Frankly, I'd like to see much more stringent guidelines. A headset, or handsfree module for a phone can be had for as little as �10. The handsfree for my Nokia cost around �30, and automatically answers, so that the caller can here me singing along to the radio. Compared to the cost of the phone and the monthly call charges, or even the petrol and car insurance, such devices are pretty cheap, and they should be encouraged much much more.

Voice dialling on the phones is a great help; my mother's old Philips GSM had this aroudn 5 years ago, and my present Nokia has it to. Press one button, and then say the name of the person you want to reach - much better when you're driving, though limited on the Nokia, I think, to ten key numbers.

However, the network I use (Orange) has a service called WildFire which you can have free of charge instead of the standard voicemail.

WildFire is a complete voice controlled call handling system. Hold down the voicemail button on the phone for a couple of seconds and she asks what she can do for you. You can call people by name, and specify their home, or office number, manage voicemail messages, return calls, and so on. As far as I know, you can dial into the service from elsewhere, and place calls, which will appear on your mobile bill, and be delivered with your mobile caller ID.

Being able to synchronise WildFire with your PDA, perhaps via a web conduit, would be very useful - and technologies like this will certainly make using communications in the car much more straightforward.

But, having said all that, whatever you're doing in the car, you should be concentrating on the road. You may have a phone that answers automatically, or places calls by voice control, but if you end up having an argument over the phone, you're still likely to be a danger to other drivers.

Personally, I tell people I'm on the move, and make the call quick, and if it's not, then I slow down as much as possible and pull over to the slowest moving lane.

Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 63

I for one think that cellphone, PDA and even naviagtion system use while the car is moving should be outlawed. Look, I'm a member of the Libertarian party and I'm pretty much against any new laws going on the books. I think we have enough laws already. But this is one area where you are driving on a PUBLIC road, putting the PUBLIC at risk. If you want to kill yourself by driving around on your own property, well have at it. But I've seen so many people swerving around, weaving and bobbing in and out of a lane on the highway, using a cellphone. Its illegal to drive drunk, and the way some people drive when they talk on the phone, I'd rather them be drunk.

Some of you will read this and wonder how the navigation system got stuck in there. Well today I was reading a NTSA report that the navigation systems now in use are(based on the current number in use) causing twice as many wrecks as cellphones are.

I don't think there should be a law on the books that states "No cellphone use in a moving car". The law should state that the driver of a moving vehicle should be ticketed with distracted driving when it is clear that the driver is preoccupied with something other than driving. Thats gets everyone out there. When the car is moving, no doing your make-up or hair(believe it or not I find that men now are just as bad about this, well not the make-up part, well not in most cases). No petting your dog(yes I nearly had a dodge truck cream me because the lady driving was petting her dog. The truck lost traction in a construction area and came inches from my bumper, thank God she had ABS brakes or I'd be buying a new truck. Then she actually kept petting the dog, and when the light turned green she wasn't paying attention again and other drivers had to honk the horn when it was time to go.) Oh and no eating, I'm guilty of this but now I eat when I get where I'm going or I pull over, its amazing how quickly a glance down to get something can put you and the people around you at risk.

I think PDA's are great tools, but the car is not the place to be talking on the phone or using your palm pilot. Do it at a redlight and the worst you get is someone honking at you, do it in a moving vehicle and you could kill someone. Its not worth the risk just to find a phone number or appointment.

-Visorholic

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Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Re: It's the driving, dang it!

quote:

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Instead of attacking the problem (poor driving and inattention) the blasted lawmakers are attacking the symptoms (cellphones, PDAs and other distractions).

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Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1883

in a lot of european countries it is allready illegal (except when you use a handsfree set...)
I think that is a good thing... you need to stay focused and have your hands free (especially in a manual...)

a bit off-topic:A recent study proved that tired drivers have a lot slower reaction time than drivers with .5 promille alcohol (legal limit in most countries).. that was a bit shocking to me. I used to drive too when I was tired but would never drive drunk...But this showed it was just as bad

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<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

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I used to drive too when I was tired but would never drive drunk...But this showed it was just as bad

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We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 16

< rant >
To legislate a ban on PDA usage while driving is a waste of government (like they need help wasting government but I digress). Adding to the DMV manual facts about driving while distracted/tired and making these facts requirements of the test would do more to bring it to the public eye.

Having said that, I think the bloke in the CNN article should be given a severe lashing (verbally of course, I'll let his wife mistreat him at home).

< /rant >

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas, USA
Posts: 181

There have been several studies published in peer reviewed journals on driving and cell phone use. A couple:

Lamble D, Kauranen T, Laakso M, Summala H.
Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Helsinki, Finland
This study was aimed at investigating drivers' ability to detect a car ahead decelerating, while doing mobile phone related tasks. It was concluded that neither a hands-free option nor a voice controlled interface removes the safety problems associated with the use of mobile phones in a car.
Accid Anal Prev. 1999 Nov;31(6):617-23.
PMID: 10487336; UI: 99415258
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...6&dopt=Abstract



The New England Journal of Medicine -- February 13, 1997 -- Vol. 336, No. 7
Association between Cellular-Telephone Calls and Motor Vehicle Collisions
Donald A. Redelmeier, Robert J. Tibshirani
Conclusions. The use of cellular telephones in motor vehicles is associated with a quadrupling of the risk of a collision during the brief period of a call. Decisions about regulation of such telephones, however, need to take into account the benefits of the technology and the role of individual responsibility. (N Engl J Med 1997;336:453-8.)

http://www.nejm.org/content/1997/0336/0007/0453.asp

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

quote:

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Originally posted by ToolkiT
a bit off-topic:A recent study proved that tired drivers have a lot slower reaction time than drivers with .5 promille alcohol (legal limit in most countries).. that was a bit shocking to me. I used to drive too when I was tired but would never drive drunk...But this showed it was just as bad

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James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 85

I sent Mr. Curran an email this morning after reading his article in full on cnn.com. Here's his response:

Greg,

We all do less-than-thoughtful things at times and that's why I apologized to
the state police.

I normally do not surf while driving at excessive speeds because I don't want
to spill my coffee on my Palm VII.


Ed


> Mr. Curran,
>
> I just read your article posted to cnn.com about the Palm VII and the neat
> way you were able to use it to navigate to your next destination. I also
> thought while reading the article, "Gee, it take a lot of concentration to
> type graffiti on my Handspring Visor accurately." I am sure this also
> occurred to you as your were driving 70+ miles per hour on the highway.
> Your article could have taken a darker turn if you had rear ended a car and
> killed either yourself or someone else. This is precisely the reason many
> States and even countries have made it illegal to use cellular phones while
> driving. Please refrain from doing anything that would distract you from
> the task of driving. There are enough idiots on the road as it is without a
> new generation of drivers trying to talk on a cell phone and pull in their
> daily stock quotes on their Palm.
>
> Don't drive and Surf.
>
> Greg Holden

His attitude seemed a bit flippant. I've talked on my cell phone and driven, and it is a distraction. It puts me in a different zone where I am concentrating on the conversation more than on the driving. I'm not knocking him because he uses his Palm while driving as much as I don't think it was a responsible article. There are enough boobs out on the road already trying to juggle a cup of coffee, a CD in the radio, a GPS navigation system, a cellular phone and now a mobile web browser or stock market bulletin board. I'd hate to see a new generation of people flocking to buy a Palm VII so they can drive and surf.

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RadarGreg

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas, USA
Posts: 181

quote:

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Originally posted by Gameboy70
Legislating a ban on cell phone use while driving seems unrealistic, since most people who would vote an such an initiative are probably guilty of the practice in the first place.

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

From what I understand (and someone correct me if I am wrong), the reason that a lot of European cars do not have cup holders is due to the fact that they realize ANY distraction can impair driving...including the use of a beverage.

Like I said, I don't know if it is true, but it makes sense.

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We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

quote:

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Originally posted by Visorholic
I for one think that cellphone, PDA and even naviagtion system use while the car is moving should be outlawed. Look, I'm a member of the Libertarian party and I'm pretty much against any new laws going on the books. I think we have enough laws already. But this is one area where you are driving on a PUBLIC road, putting the PUBLIC at risk.

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That does it! Turn in your party membership card

Seriously though, we don't need new laws for this, we just need the police and justice system to enforce the ones we have!

I'd be willing to bet that every state in the US has a Driving While Impaired (DWI) statute and if someone is driving in an unsafe manner because they are yaking on their cell phone, then there is no reason that can't qualify as "impaired". And what about "reckless driving" statutes? Let's demand that the police get out of their radar traps and drive around a little bit so they can put a stop to some of this stuff. And if someone actually does cause an accident, couldn't they be charged with reckless endangerment or sued for neglegence? Lets not put more laws on the books, lets toughen our stance on the ones we already have! If the police were as eager to hand out DWI citations as they are to give speeding tickets, people would think twice about using cell phones, PDA's, navigation devices, or anything else while driving. Don't arbitrarily restrict people's actions ... force them to take responsibility for them. Just my $0.02.

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

I think that when an accident occurs and there was a cell phone in the guilty party's vehicle, a subpoena should be issued to determine if they were on the phone at the time of the accident. If so, a stiff fine is issued.

I don't know where you live, but in Houston our police seem pretty eager to hand out DUIs because of the huge fines collected from them. OTOH, the sign may say 60 MPH, but no one goes less than 70.

As for responsibility, more and more in America today I see people trying to duck responsibility and pass it on to "society," whether it be teenagers: "hey it was peer pressure" or parents: "hey the schools should be better." However, if someone is using a cell phone, they may come into my lane, causing me to swerve (this has happened). If I had hit someone else, it will be very difficult to find that dumbass that was driving the Lexus. However, if there was a fine for driving while using a cell phone, he would be less inclined to talk & drive (or maybe not since he can afford a Lexus. )

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James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 2

be safe

Hi on the subject of laws that would make it illegal for a person to use a cell phone or a PDA while driving; i think that we should already have a law makeing it an offence. I am an EMT and a Fireman in a small town in NJ, yet my towns first aid squad and fire dept. cover Interstate 80 & 287. I cant even remember how many accidents i have been to that have been caused by people that were talking on there phones, and i have already had at least 3 that were caused by a person using a PDA. I love my visor and i use my cell phone alot, but i dont use my visor in the car and i spent the small cost for a hands free unit for the cell. I emplore anyone that reads this to just be smart on the roads, drivers are bad enough without added distractions. Be safe be smart, and hopefully i wont have to come cut you out of your car when you cause an accident

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

quote:

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Originally posted by homer
From what I understand (and someone correct me if I am wrong), the reason that a lot of European cars do not have cup holders is due to the fact that they realize ANY distraction can impair driving...including the use of a beverage.

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Seems to me it'd be much more distracting to try and hold a cup between your knees than it would be to use a cupholder.

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Jeff

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 92

quote:

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Originally posted by homer
The reason that a lot of European cars do not have cup holders is due to the fact that they realize ANY distraction can impair driving...including the use of a beverage.

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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Redwood City CA
Posts: 472

quote:

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Originally posted by nwhitfield

The reason is that we're all far too stylish over here to do something as impossibly vulgar as drink from a plastic cup while we're driving. :-)

[/B]

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