Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Mike:

I already have a Vx, which I'm quite pleased with. However, at the risk of sounding impolite, I don't want to see other people get screwed over by a lousy company like Handspring. Since you know my feelings, then don't bother reading any more of my opinions. I won't be offended ;-)

Staad:
The technology improvements in the Vx are first and foremost the processor, which is the 20MhZ Dragonball, not the Visor's 16MhZ version. The metal case, IMHO, is better, but I don't argue that dings, etc. are a significant concern for some. Personally, I know a lot of people in user groups who have the V for awhile now and none seem to have dings and dents, but I guess that possibility is something we should consider. If I find one I'll bring it in for auto-body work ;-)
As far as the "wacky" processor tweaks, I know there's about ten or so people who returned their Visors after getting a repeating Fatal Error (half of which didn't install anything prior to receiving the message). And the fact that <gasp> tech support has no idea how to fix it, nor that I've ever seen that message in the four-plus years I've been using the Palm OS stuff, makes me assume it's a Visor problem. Since it's not the case that's causing this problem ;-) I assume it's something to do with that little H at the end of the OS version.

I don't disagree as far as the battery, but the nice thing about Palm vs. Handspring is that if you have a problem with a unit, you can return it and get it replaced within a month. So if your battery theoretically died in the V/Vx (I don't know anyone who's had this problem, but if we're talking a year or more, so be it), you could call Palm today, tell them your battery died, and give them a credit card number. Tomorrow you'd have another V/Vx and be ready to continue. However, my feeling is that the product will be obsolete-ish before you experience a dead smart-Lion battery, unless it's defective. But there's no argument vis-a-vis the travel issue. If you're unable to bring a cradle with you, then about three or four weeks is the max you'll have before you need to recharge. They claim a month, but with regular/daily usage, my guess is 14-21 days.

Empty Beaker:

Next time you claim you've read and know what someone's talking about, mebbe you ought to finish reading before responding. I DO OWN A VISOR, and it's being picked up by UPS tomorrow. I used the Visor for six days before it took a "lucky bounce" off a couch (less than a three-foot drop onto carpet) and it died. Next time you claim knowledge and point a finger, try knowing what you're talking about.

Also, it's not so much that I'm a Palm man, but a non-Handspring man. I'm extremely disappointed that a company has taken advantage of so many people who entrusted them en masse. I don't have any great love for Palm, or else I would not have bothered getting a Visor. However, it mystifies me why so many people are so willing to be patient while they get screwed by Handspring. Moreover, even if the response is "The product is better than the Vx" or something similar, as Staad indicated, it seems to me that a product that is so poorly supported and so devoid of technical help by its manufacturer makes it worthless, IMHO.

As far as taking my message to a website, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not so much interested in sinking Handspring; I think they will do that all by themself. I am, however, unwilling to watch first-time PDA people get screwed and get soured on PDA's or the Palm OS and end up with nothing or, worse, with WinCE machines.

All:
Considering that if Handspring closes its doors, then at least the springboard will be licensed by Palm or another organization. I'm not riling people up for legal action or anything like that, it just amazes me that so many people are so willing to be patient without realizing how much worse it gets once you are tied to this company. And the point of the Visorcentral forum, if I'm not mistaken, is to exchange factual information for the betterment of the Visor/Palm community. Sorry to have to advise you yet again, but there's little positive information to exchange regarding Handspring, whereas there's an (unreasonable) overabundance of negative information to share. If you're not interested and want to be on the receiving end of Handspring's ineptitude, tune me out.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: METAIRIE,LA,USA
Posts: 19

I have to agree with Mike, etc.. I think the Visorcentral.com should be renamed to "WWW.HOTCARL.COM". We all appreciate your amount of input and concern for our financial and mental well being. Thanks, but please stop trying to be "our" savior. You are beginning to lose credibility by going on a mass rampage of posts. The vast majority of us have yet to have the Visor within our hands, let us decide.

I believe your not too happy with the VX or else you wouldn't have so much time to post. :-)



[This message has been edited by DEL (edited 11-07-1999).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

DEL:

It's not about being a savior, but simply making sure anyone considering a Visor knows what's going on behind the Handspring PR-BS. I think the product itself is good, btw, but considering that, as you say, so many of you don't have them in your hands as of yet, doesn't that speak volumes (more than what I or anyone else has to say)? Anyway, keep in mind that my opinions (as unfavorable as they may be) are confined to the ordering/shipping section, not the general visor section. Anyone who is pleased with the Visor (the majority of those who have received same) might not have yet had the chance to enjoy Handspring's customer service and technical support staff, and if thirty days go by and their product fails, they're screwed. If my lucky bounce befell me after 30 days and no one had bothered to advise me how bad Handspring's after-sale service is, I would have been mighty angry, moreso than I was last Monday when I experienced it first-hand. I don't expect a thank-you -- far from it -- but the way I see it, all of us would be out of luck without this forum, and I figure I'm helping a few people by at least letting them know what they're in store for upon their first Visor problem. If they decide to pursue a Visor, that's cool...but I want them to be able to make a decision armed with the facts, not (just) the PR.

Anyway, if you're interested in forming your own opinion, then what does it matter what I or anyone else has to say? Why bother even paying attention? If you want to read my comments, so be it. If you agree or disagree, so be it. If you disagree and wish to voice your dissent, so be it. If you're disinterested and don't want to read it, so be it.

So be it.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 95

Hot Carl said: "As far as the "wacky" processor tweaks, I know there's about ten or so people who returned their Visors after getting a repeating Fatal Error (half of which didn't install anything prior to receiving the message).

For the record, ONE person posted mention that they got 'wacky' error message without installing anything on their Visor. The rest had installed one or more 'Hacks'. It's not surprising that a 'Hack' could cause problems with a different version of an OS than it was written for simply because of how they work, effectively replacing portions of the OS.

As for that one person, do you think that the first time a problem shows up ANY tech support is going to know what caused it and how to fix it? Very likely there will be a small series of people with this problem who have to return their Visors before the cause is determined. Once the cause is determined, a fix can be worked on. (I'm guessing a glitch in the ROM burning process is causing the error in a small group of the machines, but who knows.)

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Troy,MI
Posts: 12

Del, I couldn't agree more. I'm partially hoping HotCarl hasn't gone off the deep-end or PDAland.

HotCarl... it seems that the vast majority of people who recieved their visor completely love it. And I don't think I've yet to find a negative review of the product!

Play with your Vx and let the constructive message board go on in peace. Consturctive criticism, indivual questions and experiences, but peace. Not your ranting for page after page.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 95

Hot Carl:

No sale. I don't mean to dump on you, but it doesn't seem to me that you are being entirely honest, with us or even with yourself. If you were trying to help everyone then you would do what they ask. I haven't read any posts that say, "Amen, HC! Preach it! You go out there and speak for us, tell it like it is!" Rather, I see you write things like, "Since you know my feelings, then don't bother reading any more of my opinions," and "it just amazes me that so many people are so willing to be patient," and "If you're not interested and want to be on the receiving end of Handspring's ineptitude, tune me out."

A fire fighter doesn't need to convince someone that they should listen to him/her to be rescued from a fire. The victim welcomes the help! This is why it seems painfully obvious to me that you are not helping very many people, if any one, and that most people don't really want your opinion. There's no need to go overboard like this! Again, I'm just going by what people are writing here.

We got the message, thanks for the help, but chill out some, brother! It's OK, we'll all be just fine. Let it (the anger, etc.) go, and I really think you'll feel a lot better.

Again, Hot Carl, I don't mean this in an angry or hateful way. I'm just trying to be helpful. As a friend once told me, "Smile , nod your head, and it'll all go faster!"

MJH <><

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Mike:

Thanks for the sincerity (and I'm not being sarcastic). However, my "helping" is not for those who are salivating over their coming units, but those who are considering buying a Visor. And it's not anger but disappointment. My point is for those people who don't like negativity (and I'm not suggesting that they should like it) to ignore what I have to say. No question, it's irritating to hear knocks against a company/product about which you're excited. But people who are hearing about the Visor but not about the customer handling should and deserve to be advised, right?

All I know is that if I had the opportunity to hear about Handspring in this capacity before buying it, I would have never even called them or visited their site. Hopefully, I can at least let others know what they're in for should they decide to do business with this company. If this somehow affects your excitement over eventually obtaining a Visor, my apologies. Once again, it's a good product. But if it's merely a distate for negativity, opinion and the truth, well, that's an area in which I can't, and won't, help. Sorry.

PS Staad: Check out this link: http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/emerge...ger-review.html

[This message has been edited by Hot Carl (edited 11-08-1999).]

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 52

Hot Carl, not to be cruel, but your pro-Vx bias is as blatant as the pro-Visor bias of people you are attacking. The Dragonball 20 mhz processor is not more advanced the 16 mhz processor. It is only running at a fractionally overclocked speed. In fact, since processor speed is linear, a fractionally overclocked processor is theoretically less stable than an even multipled overclocked processor. So, the Vx processor is less stable than the V's, IIIx's and the Visor's. (Now, the also newly introduced 32 mhz processor, well, that should prove to be the best. Fast and stable.)

I have had a difficult time reading thru your miopic vision. But, after you posted you wanted a Saab convertible, then bought an Audi instead. Well, it makes sense. (Now you're on my turf, and I have much experience, and great respect for, Audis, including the designers and management.) But, your car choices seem to indicate a person more concerned with surface level appeal than with how the product satisfies the customers' intended needs. Do you really believe the Vx is the best available PDA for every possible PDA user. Or, is it the combination of high price, small form factor (although your use of the clamshell hard cover eliminates that potential advantage), shiny metallic exterior and 8 MB RAM/20 mhz processor specs, that causes you to proclaim its superiority? Why can't everyone be allowed to acquire what, at least they believe, works best for them. I am glad you like your unit, but putting down others' choices won't make your Palm Vx any better, nor will it make you any smarter, better looking or superior in any other possible way. It just means you have a more expensive PDA than others. That's all. If they like their units, and are satisfied with what their PDA's actually do for them, well, I, for one, say congratulations, enjoy your PDA experience and the increased control and productivity they can provide.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

DMK:

I got an Audi b/c maintenance is 100% free, b/c it's got all-wheel drive for winter, and it's a blast to drive.

I'm not suggesting that the Vx is _better_ than the Visor, and I don't think the Visor is a bad product. AGAIN: I think the Visor is a _GOOD_ product. The problem herein lies with Handspring. That's the extent of my point.

As far as being pro-Vx, that's not the whole story. I happen to like the Vx, and Staad explained the situation vis-a-vis the processors. My point was not that the Vx is much better than the Visor, or even that it's better. The IIIx is prolly the better choice for most people between the Vx and the IIIx, btw. My sole point is that blind loyalty to Handspring, coupled with patience, distate for dissent and a measure of finger-pointing, isn't IMHO the best way to go. And the way I see it, the only significant way Palm products are better than Handspring products are the fact that Palm products are supported by their manufacturer.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 187

Hot Carl,

So why would I want to spend ANOTHER $30 to be able to remotely charge (and an unregulated charge, no less) my built in, can't do anything with it battery? Lith batteries are great on my notebook, but I can replace them. Why spend the extra bucks for a system that is proven to need factory service?? Sorry, but it just doesn't add up in a consumer device.

How much would the Vx be worth to me? Let's see...It is a little smaller, so I'd pay a LITTLE more for that. It has a terrible battery system, so they'd have to really cut the price there. Oh, and it has no room for growth, and little industry backing to try to make it grow, so they'd REALLY have to chop the price...so let's add this all up...seems like for $189.00 TOPS, it would be a fair price against the Visor Deluxe. Even at that, I'd rather have the Visor. It seems like there are a lot of us here who feel the same way.

[This message has been edited by staad (edited 11-08-1999).]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 62

Hey Hot Carl - "Savior of all who would buy a Visor"

It seems that It's fine for us to have an opinion as long as it doesn't contradict yours. I think that you feel that you got burned (maybe you did) and Mindspring is going to pay, but it is just bad luck. A number of people are Pi**ed Off, we all know the score. You have made your opinion QUITE clear, now go play with your "Wonderful Vx". Most people can't afford a Vx or an Audi so the Visor is the only PDA for them, and it looks like one that is worth waiting for.

The fact of the matter is that Handspring had some MAJOR problems. It appears that they are sorting them out nicely now. Is everyone going to be happy, no. But you know most people realize that not everything goes the way you would like it to. I for one am willing to wait a few weeks to get a better PDA at a great price. It is only a few weeks after all . . . anticipation makes getting it so much more satisfying . Look at all of the positive posts from the people who have gotten their Visor (with the exception of you that is).

I knew about the "lucky bounce", you posted it in most of the threads. And just in case you didn't know it, the is an indication of sarcasm.

Speaking only for myself, I am tired of all negative waves. And your posts have definately been on more than this thread until recently.

Hey Man, Relax! I hate to see what would happen if something really bad happened to you!

Half Full Beaker

Half Empty Hot Carl

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Athens Ohio
Posts: 7

I for one appreciate Hot Carl's posts, because he is stressing the issue of follow-up customer service, which is worrying me even more than the shipping delay. I ordered a VDx blue on the Web on 10/6, and after seeing the pictures of it on Visor Central, I called the 888 no. around 10/20 and asked to have it changed to graphite. But everytime I check on the Website, it still lists the order as blue. I don't mind waiting the 4 to 6 weeks for a really good product, IF I can communicate with some one about my order, and have it changed or added to before it gets shipped. But the CSRs at the 716 number, who are supposed to help you with your already existing order, told me they have no up-to-date information at all and couldn't make a change if they wanted to. What really bothers me is that the e-mails I sent 11 days ago have gone unanswered. There is no way I can contact anyone who can tell me if my order has been changed and if I can add to it in the meantime (i.e. a backup module). Plus, it has to get to me before 11/23, when I go out of town for 5 weeks.
This complete lack of communication, even by e-mail, makes me very nervous should anything go wrong with the Visor. I want to just cancel the order and get some other kind of PDA, but many posts have said that cancelled orders are being sent anyway. So I have no idea what will happen and NO way to communicate with HS to find out. What kind of company can't answer its email after 10 days?

------------------

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

g3:

Thanks for seeing things clearly. Nice to see all the other soon-to-be-Happy Visor owners bothered to reply to your situation. Some community spirit.

As far as your situation, if you want to wait it out, keep in mind you have thirty days before D-Day, so you can accept shipment (assuming it occurs) and go from there. Just put the Visor through its paces and, after all is said and done, if you're still uncomfortable, then return it. Keep an eye out either way for other peoples' opinions vis-a-vis customer service problems and resolution of Visor-related problems, not Handspring ones.

You can call them and cancel as well, but odds are you might end up receiving a FedEx or UPS delivery anyway. At that point, if after you've cancelled you still receive a package from everyone's favorite company, then you can refuse shipment and your card will be credited.

You didn't mention whether your card was charged, btw, and that has been a good barometer of whether the unit will soon ship. It's possible that the color change delayed the order processing.

My recommendation is to go to the Handspring site and check the shipping page. There is an e-mail link for Customer Care. Try it. If within a week you don't get a response and have not received a Visor, then bite the bullet and call them. Either being very forceful and demanding some sort of action immediately, or cancelling the order altogether should solve your problem, at least vis-a-vis Handspring. Again, if after cancelling you receive a package, you can simply refuse shipment and your card will eventually be credited. Make sure you contact your credit card co. ASAP once you make your decision.

As for the remainder of you, why not exert your energies on helping your fellow Handspring loyalists (or "Mindspring," as in the case of Empty Beaker) instead of *****ing at me? I made my choice and no matter how much you crap on the Vx, my choice thereof or me in particular, it doesn't change the fact that Handspring is performing poorly on all fronts. If what I had to say had no validity then I would discontinue saying it. Unfortunately, while you guys drool over the Visor (without some of you even having one in hand yet), it's somewhat ironic that you'd rather talk up the product (and crap on anyone or anything suggesting alternatives) than acknowledge or ignore problems surrounding the company supplying same.

Enjoy playing with whatever it is _you_ play with.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: New York, NY USA
Posts: 25

Wow, some of you guys seem to have *way* too much time on your hands. Just sayin'.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 62

he he. Mindspring is my ISP.

I just don't understand why, if you don't have any new information to share with the group you keep saying the same stuff over and over.

It appears that your waiting for your sense of humor to be shipped, it must be on backorder.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Empty:

No problem with my sense of humor...it wasn't ordered from Handspring :-)

Nice that you were helpful enough to point out your ISP to us. I was trying to help out ggg who is another would-be Visor owner. Mebbe you missed his/her post.

Mebbe the reason why I keep posting the same stuff is because the same problems keep popping up again and again. And new people keep popping up asking how a company can be this inept again and again. Why not go back and read the post to which I responded? Or can't you be bothered?

Better yet, go ahead and entertain us. In fact, why not start a new "Visor Sense of Humor" Topic and let people discussing the ordering and shipping of Visors continue doing so?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 62

Hey, you needed someone to help keep the topic going with fresh posts. I'm just doing my part.

Actually, from the looks of things lately, Handspring's performance has really skyrocketed and this will undoubtedly be a dead thread very soon.

See Ya