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Laptop Competition

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Topic: Laptop Competition    
pale33
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Registered: Jul 2002
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Posts: 4

Angry Laptop Competition

I have been a loyal Handspring customer for years. My Visor Pro was a replacement for my Deluxe, which replaced my Solo when it was stolen years ago. My concern now...Handspring is wandering around with a demagnetized compass.

I have been using my Visors as stripped down laptops. I have the keyboard, and the software (not to mention an Audible Advisor which is truly magnificent). Yet, it seems that these days Handspring has decided to compete with cell phones!?

Small is good, but HAS ANYONE SEEN A LAPTOP SCREEN SHRINK IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS? The Treo is great is you want a supercharged phone, but you still need a laptop to do real work. This is because the SCREEN HAS SHRUNK. This is why nobody with a Palm 10x does much word processing on the thing...the SCREEN IS TOO SMALL!

The Visor is the ONLY opportunity Handspring has to "compete" for laptop converts...I'm one. Shifting focus toward the telecom market at the expense of loyal customers is not wrong...they're not crazy...they just won't be receiving my business in the future (not with their current agenda).

pale33 is offline Old Post 07-25-2002 06:14 PM
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HindeR
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Registered: Aug 2001
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Posts: 143

Unhappy Ahmen Brother!

But you're preaching to the choir. HS doesn't care what we think. If they do read this forum, they write us off as the techno-nerd elite, an insignificant portion of the customer base. It may hurt to read this, but I have come to this conclusion after several posts like yours and several calls and emails to Handspring.

I hope you find a PDA that you are happy with.

- Chip

HindeR is offline Old Post 07-25-2002 10:03 PM
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pale33
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Registered: Jul 2002
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Chip,

I didn't mean to infer that I was/am dissatisfied with the performance of my Visor Pro...on the contrary, I LOVE IT! I am just upset that upgrades to the "organizers" are no longer a priority.

...and with Handspring's public display of (un)affection for the line, developers have begun to do the same (with respect to Springboard Module develpment). The EyeModules are on their way out...Targus pulled the HandCam...MiniJam reports no more upgrades...I haven't seen a "new" Springboard Module (except for those directed at the healthcare industry) in a very long time.

I love my Visor...it IS MY LAPTOP! But where's the discourse? C'mon Handspring...WE MADE YOU...SHOW US SOME LOVE!

WHERE'S THE SUGAR?

...that's all I'm trying to say.

-Jason

pale33 is offline Old Post 07-25-2002 11:00 PM
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dick-richardson
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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

As far as a laptop replacement goes, there are significantly few PalmOS devices I would consider capable.

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dick-richardson is offline Old Post 07-26-2002 12:56 AM
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HindeR
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Registered: Aug 2001
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Posts: 143

NP

Jason -

No problem. As I quickly learned when I started posting here (especially in threads where Joshua was involved ). It is easy to misinterpret what someone is saying. Sometimes, not even all the smiley faces in the world help to convey someones intent. I meant I hope you can find a PDA you are happy with when your Pro dies now that Visors are becoming extinct. I too have been very upset at Handspring's business moves, but as Joshua and others have pointed out, we are not the bulk of the market. We are few compared to the masses who wander into Stores and buy something off of the shelf. Most people here research things online and are more interested in the high tech features, but we are the minority.

For example, I spent a lot of mental effort worrying about buying a replacement Prism vs buying something newer. I looked at what is available, which accessories do they have, how often that manufacturer comes out with new models and discontnues old ones, which lines continue to use standard connectors to allow wide use of their accessories, etc. etc. etc. It nearly drove me crazy. Most people don't do that. (Take my wife for example, I love her dearly, but she would'nt even use the SB slot of the Deluxe I got for her if I had not slapped a backup module in there.) It is those most people to which Handspring is trying to market their products. Whether or not they are doing that correctly has been debated in several other threads.

So I hope that your Pro and my Prism have good long lives.

Enjoy!

- Chip

HindeR is offline Old Post 07-26-2002 03:34 PM
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Prismer2
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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 108

Lightbulb Every Cloud has a Silver Lining......

...or is that Platinum? The flip side of Handspring's dropping of the Visor line is that, at the moment, all kinds of Visors and Springboards are available....CHEAP!

Yes, it would be nice to see every niche filled with one or more Springboard applications, but on the other hand, just think of the fun we will have collecting Visors and Springboards at garage sales and flea markets over the next 10 years or so. Then,.... wait until they become collectibles!

You know..., techno-geeks who have been happily using their Visors today, but later move on to the latest hot hardware, will someday think about how much FUN their Visors and Springboards were. Then...., we got 'em! After hording all your finds, you can fund your retirement through e-Bay, or whatever its replacement will be 20 years from now!

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Prismer2 is offline Old Post 08-24-2002 07:04 AM
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Hoser_back_home
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Registered: Nov 1999
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www.tiqit.com

enjoy!

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Hoser_back_home is offline Old Post 08-24-2002 06:13 PM
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YoYoman412
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 78

I agree

I agree more than anything. Handspring has taken a wrong turn to what I thought theyd end up becoming after I bought my Prism. Handspring had so much potential with the Visor products and springboards, I mean whod ever thought that your PDA could massage you, and allow itself to do all those amazing things that springboards allow it to do? The Treos make great phones but thats about it.

The Treos arent nearly as expandable as the Visor. Why cant Handspring focus on the Visor and the Treo at the same time? Im wishing at this moment that Handspring is indeed thinking of some new great Visor that still has springboard abilities.

Prismer2 you are correct about springboards being so cheap now but it is still upsetting to see these awesome expansions disappear. I think that Springboards had a great future and I dont know why Handpsring gave them up.

But then again, maybe Handspring isent giving up Visors and their springboards? I really hope this is the case. But once again HindeR is correct about HS. HS is ignoring a lot of their customers about their complaints with them ignoring the Visors and it is pissing me off.

Thats my two cents. LONG LIVE THE VISOR!

Jonathan

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YoYoman412 is offline Old Post 08-25-2002 03:55 AM
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Prismer2
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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 108

Its really very simple....

Handspring is not a giant megacorporation, like Sony or Microsoft. It has limited resources and its management, faced with a serious competitive threat in the PDA field by Sony, among others, made a strategic marketing decision.

I am not defending them. As an Engineer and MBA graduate myself (it should make a great Case Study) I believe the Handspring decision to put all their resources into developing the Treo line and dropping the Visor completely was a total blunder. However, there are probably many others who will argue just the opposite. Yet, there are other paths they could have chosen.

The Visor line could have been sold, to reap an immediate cash benefit, yet keep the line viable. Other small companies like Handera, Franklin (a Springboard supplier and Palm OS software vendor) or even old Arch-enemy Palm Corporation might have welcomed the proprietary Springboard expansion slot and all the potential it had.

Another possible move would have been to turn the Visor into a cash cow, with only the minimal investment to appease users. They had already started doing that, giving the VDX a facelift (Neo/Platinum) without much of a giant leap in technnology. But instead, they killed the cow, with their announcement, and THEN tried to milk her! I wonder what the Net Present Value (a bone for you Finance guys!) of future cash flows from milking a stagnant, but continuing, Visor manufacturing/sales operation would be compared to the NPV of what they did to their cash cow: kill it, drain the milk, gut it, and sell the meat, hide, and hooves!

One question remains: when the Visor is truly dead and buried, Handspring and all its retailers are selling no more new stock or "refurbished" units, will there still be tech support, parts, and repairs available from Handspring at reasonable prices? Very doubtful, HS will be very happy to be rid of the albatross which they created and hung around their own neck.

Well....., one OTHER question also remains: will the Springboard technology still have any value to Handspring? Will they license it or sell it to some other upstart or established company or companies? This could be the one hope for Visor/Springboard afficianados, that someone will see the value of carrying on with a Springboard capable PDA. Perhaps it will be a young entrepreneur, possibly someone reading this right now!

Oh, well, just some thoughts from a corporate lackey!



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Prismer2 is offline Old Post 08-26-2002 04:49 AM
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strangetanks
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Registered: Jan 2002
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Posts: 41

As an engineer working in a manufacturing environment I'm completely amazed that Handspring never tried to get into the industrial market. Having a device which could be used for inventory management (barcode reader) or data acquisition or the many other things the visor could do all in one platform would be a huge money saver for any manufacturing facility considering purchasing discreet hardware for all of these functions.

strangetanks is offline Old Post 08-26-2002 02:13 PM
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HindeR
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Registered: Aug 2001
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Unhappy Sales Bottleneck

The blunder that I have seen is creating a sales bottleneck. Sure HS sold through major retial stores. However, when I asked the local Just-In-Time vendor for computer equipment at my company if they could get HS stuff on the contract, they said they had been asking HS for over a year and that HS would not let them sell their stuff. I thought that was pretty crazy. Do any MBA's out there understand why it would be a good idea to limit who sells your stuff? This JIT vendor was able to carry Palm and Sony stuff. JIT makes it so much easier. I just click on a web page, enter my project financial codes, and wait for it to appear. No fussing with procurement requests, filling out forms, or tracking down someone with a company purchase card. I think many more of the 10,000 people here at my work would be carrying Visors if they were as easy to buy. Instead, there are VERY few Visors and LOTS of Palm505s and Sony's.

HindeR is offline Old Post 08-26-2002 03:00 PM
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Prismer2
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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 108

I am an engineer and an MBA (in Marketing), and I have worked most of my career in Manufacturing. If more Marketing people had an engineering background, and more engineers had some marketing background, a lot fewer mistakes would be made and there would be less of the "design it, then through it over the wall" to manufacturing and marketing to do the best they can with no input to the design process.

Conversely, fewer marketers would become simply the "Yes Man" to customers and company executives who say, "Yes, we can make that for $XXX and have it ready in YY months," and THEN go ask engineering and manufacturing people, "Can we make that for $XXX in YY months?" Of course, by then Y months have already gone by and $XX have already been spent in developing prototypes that may or may not be what the market needs/wants.

I enjoyed viewing the website on the "83" by Tiqit Corporation. It is a brilliant product and I am sure it will find a highly profitable niche in the market. Unfortunately, I don't have $1000 to $2000 to spend on a palmtop Windows/Linux/Unix PC, but many corporate customers might. This is definitely not a product for the mass market, not yet anyway. For the same money you can get a really nice laptop that fits in a briefcase, plays DVD movies, has a squintless screen (hi res graphics), is superfast and powerful (number cruncher), and is highly configurable and adaptable to multiple uses. For down and dirty portability and organizer/scheduler as well as simple word processing, spreadsheet, and communications functions, it will be hard to beat the PalmOS PDA in bang for the buck.

To answer the last question: No, I do not know why Handspring would not allow the J.I.T. vendor to sell their products, but I can make some educated guesses. Successful J.I.T. selling as you have noted, requires that the product be always available. Handspring may have had problems with their Far East suppliers in making that kind of commitment. There may even have been personality conflicts between executives for the two companies, often a stumbling block when two companies are going to "get in bed" with each other, so to speak. Taking a course in Business-to-Business Marketing last year, I did learn that the type of marketing channel you refer to is very difficult to accomplish successfully, requiring a lot of cooperation and integration of the various sales, procurement, data processing, and logistical functions in the partner companies.

Generally, it IS a good idea to have as many channels of distribution as practical, that being the key word. It is likely that J.I.T. distribution, for whatever reason, was just not practical for upstart Handspring, while Giant Sony and more established Palm Corporation had already developed the logistical tools and facilities to make J.I.T. practical for them.

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Prismer2 is offline Old Post 08-26-2002 08:07 PM
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EJSHUMAK
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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 227

Arrow The rumors of my death have been greatly exagerated--

I don't think the Visor line is dead---Frozen perhaps--
Not a lot of likelyhood as to improvements oin the near future--

But I believe people do want a "mini" laptop and the visor is appropriate there--

Also -- Even though HS isn't actively supporting the Springboard--there are many many industrial apps out there that need it--and this will tend to kep Visor sales alive -- though not brisk.

We get new springboards nearly every month--Especially specialized ones--and the work behind them often took years-- and is unlikely to be abandoned--

ie--Just last month we got an EEG for anesthesiologist use.
Auible has a significant investment and is still selling units--
An there has been a UPC reader for a long time-- Many companies use it for inventory--

The visor and Springboard aren't dead yet--granted they're not growing anymore--But I don't think you have seen the last of them--

Perhaps I am an optimist -- but time will tell--

There are many many small niche industries that support moderate sales-- I think that is the bailiwick of the Visor and springboard now--

EJSHUMAK is offline Old Post 09-10-2002 03:56 AM
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