Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

Here's your thread. BTW, one more point. I used both systems and found the Mac much more to my liking. Have you used a mac?

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 276

Here is point number one... but this doesn't mean this is substain enough to be the most important:

BOX - Apple PowerMac G4 Compaq Presario 5900Z
Processor - Motorola G4 AMD Athlon
Speed - 500 MHz 850 MHz
RAM Type - SDRAM SDRAM
RAM Amt - 256MB 256MB
HD Type - Ultra ATA Ultra DMA
HD Size - 27GB 30GB
HD RPM - 7200 7200
Video Card - Rage 128 Pro NVIDIA GeForce 256
VRAM - 16MB 32MB
CD/DVD - DVD-RAM DVD-ROM, CD-RW
Price - $3399 $2747

close to 600 dollars

I actually use both machines since I double as a Wireless developer and a graphic artists. I haven't touched the G4 in months since it just doesn't suit my liking. But, this is what it comes down to... a PERSONAL computer, is just that, a PERSONAL computer. In no way have I yet to say that Mac's suck overall and they are worth no use, etc...... I have however tried to debunk their superiority in the marketplace. They aren't superior. Prices, speed, upgradability, these categories more often than not have pointed to PC. That is why PC has more of a market share. That is ALSO why PC has more developers, shareware, freeware, commercial... hands down, PC wins. Therefore joshieca missed my point. I have actually deleted current posts in that article because I didn't want to draw that much attention to it.

Let me gather more thoughts, while you respond and I will get back to you will a more clear, concise letter.

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what?<br>

Last edited by timmins on 04-16-2001 at 05:57 PM

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

But that's not my example. You complained my argument against you wasn't taking your example into consideration. Fine. I'll agree that you can rarely go wrong building your own system (with regards to hardware), but I'd like to see a price comparison between an iMac and a Gateway, Dell, Compaq, etc. I want the mic and speakers included .

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

BTW, have you used a mac? Your points won't be invalidated, but it would help to see where you're coming from.

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 276

I just cut and pasted two machines... both have speakers and a mic.

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what?<br>

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

Dick...you just had to encourage this discussion, didn't you?

I'm a die-hard Mac user, myself, but I have to side with timmins. You can get a windows system pieced together for a LOT less than a Mac system.

If you want complete 'upgradability' (important to some users) you need to build-you-own, or go with a high-end Dell or the like. Macs, Gateways, Consumer-end Dells...none of these machines are really meant to by upgraded beyond adding a few cards or a new drive here and there.

Dick, I agree with a lot of what you say, but there are some errors that should be corrected (the more facts you have, the better arguments you can make in the future).

quote:

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Last I checked Windows didn't include text and voice recognition software.

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We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

Et tu, Brute?

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

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That is why PC has more of a market share. That is ALSO why PC has more developers, shareware, freeware, commercial... hands down, PC wins.

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Market share rarely has anything to do with quality.

As for software, yes there is much more out there for Windows, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Of all the applications I use day in-day out, there are maybe 2 that I can only use on the PC and 2 that I can only use on the Mac. The rest are all cross-platform or have cross-platform alternatives.

As Timmins alluded to, you can NOT say one platform is better than the other. This is the old chevy vs. ford debate.

That said, there ARE tangible elements of a computing platform that one can compare: price, quality, upgradability, interface, architecture, support, reliability, speed, etc.

Broad 'my whatever is better than your whatever' statements are meaningless in that they merely are reflections of a person's opinion.

I always enjoy a good debate...even a good 'ol Mav Vs. PC debate, but the arguments need to be based in fact, not opinion, for the debate to be of any value.

IMHO, of course

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We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by homer
Dick...you just had to encourage this discussion, didn't you?

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

In most cases, if price is the decision-maker, a PC will be cheaper than a Mac when purchasing a new machine. I don't think that it should be the deciding factor, as there are other things to consider like TCO (support costs, software costs, etc). I hope to get my parents using a Mac so I don't have to help them with something on their PC everytime I visit them.

I recently purchased a PowerBook G4 400. I compared it with the Sony Vaio, and the difference in price was almost negligible when similarly configured. My TiBook is the most trouble-free laptop I have ever used, even with the new OS X on it. My wife has a Compaq Notebook 100 and it is always giving her some type of problem.

Both Macs and PCs have their merits. Buy what suits your interests.

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James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by dick-richardson
{...} I have yet to see a Windows machine with an included mic.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
...Nah...if they'd included Klipsch, that would have been worthy, but Harmon Kardon stuff is getting pretty common these days...

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
You haven't been looking very hard obviously. Even my cheapo Quantex system purchased in '96 came with a mic.

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 276

all I can say is... I have removed update notification, I haven't read a post since my last one and wish that this never happened.

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what?<br>

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

Macintouch usually posts a side-by-side comparison of new Mac models vs PC equivalents whenever a new model comes out. The PC usually wins the initial purchase-price war.

That said, you really can't compare them, as the systems, while similar, typically have a lot of little differences (ie, 100baseT vs. Gigabit Ethernet, Motorola vs. Intel vs. AMD, Optical mouse vs. ball mouse, etc...) that are hard to accurately compare in terms of a total system cost.

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We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by timmins
all I can say is... I have removed update notification, I haven't read a post since my last one and wish that this never happened.

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__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by homer
Macintouch usually posts a side-by-side comparison of new Mac models vs PC equivalents whenever a new model comes out. The PC usually wins the initial purchase-price war.

That said, you really can't compare them, as the systems, while similar, typically have a lot of little differences (ie, 100baseT vs. Gigabit Ethernet, Motorola vs. Intel vs. AMD, Optical mouse vs. ball mouse, etc...) that are hard to accurately compare in terms of a total system cost.

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by dick-richardson
You're right. I only looked as far as I was able to purchase (not that far).
Included? I know they make pc speakers, but I haven't seen many include them with a system. Again, I only looked as far as my pocketbook.

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

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So what should one base a decision on? You can't compare the tangibles, what's left?

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__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
I'm not even talking about self-built. I'm talking about something that one can configure/price from a webpage as being the most work that one would have to do. Now, with an iMac, it's a bit difficult to do a direct compare since the integration of components is hard to come by in the PC world, but I'd be surprised if the old fashioned PC/monitor combo couldn't beat the iMac on a price/comparable performance ratio. The main selling point for the Mac has never been price. It's always been end-user experience. That, however, is something which can't really be compared.

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__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.