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VisorCentral
VisorCentral Writer

Registered: Oct 2001
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Posts: 203

Treo 90 unleased

Rumor: Take the wireless out of a Treo 270, end up with a Treo 90.

http://www.visorcentral.com/content/Stories/1450-1.htm

05-16-2002 10:16 PM

Kesh
Member

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 14

Nifty... but I think I'll still wait until the ARM devices come out later this summer/fall. A step in the right direction though! If it weren't for PalmOS 5 coming out later, I'd snag a Treo 90 in a heartbeat to replace my Visor Prism.

05-16-2002 11:02 PM

Felipe
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 560

probably low res too.

__________________
Felipe Garcia
Happy Treo 600 user, so far. Thanx Cingular for having an unlocked phone.

My Treo 600 is my phone, my PDA, my watch, and my MP3 player. Oh yeah, I take a picture once in a while with it. Convergence is such a great thing.

05-17-2002 03:02 AM

razorpit
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 32

Doomed!?

Wow, almost 24 hours after the news of a new Handsping product and these are all the comments? I remember the days when a leak like this would stir multiple threads and discussions.

With this kind of lack luster response on a Handsping "junkie" message board, they are doomed out on the open market...

--Dave

05-17-2002 04:50 PM

tbonney
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Rushville, Indiana, USA
Posts: 24

Re: Doomed!?

quote:
Originally posted by razorpit
With this kind of lack luster response on a Handsping "junkie" message board, they are doomed out on the open market...

--Dave

I have to agree. I'm disapointed that, yet again, Handspring is failing to come out with a product with a higher res screen. Of course, this signals the death of the springboard module.

I'm starting to save my pennies for the latest Sony.

Tim

05-17-2002 05:43 PM

yardie
Member

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

What the hell

I fail to see what all the brouhaha is about hi-res. Most people are satisfied with a regular screen.

There are other posts on the boards about this issue. So there is no point in people posting here again.

05-17-2002 06:12 PM

tbonney
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Rushville, Indiana, USA
Posts: 24

Re: What the hell

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
I fail to see what all the brouhaha is about hi-res. Most people are satisfied with a regular screen.

There are other posts on the boards about this issue. So there is no point in people posting here again.

I would disagree. Do you have stats on people's satisfaction with the "regular" screen? Or, are you just satisfied with 160x160?

I've never been satisfied with the pixilated screen on my Visor Prism. Why should I be? Why shouldn't Handspring keep up with the rest of the industry in screen resolution?

We are talking about a new Handspring handheld that fails to be innovative. There is nothing new here. Its a treo minus the wireless phone. Should we be excited that this feels like an after thought device rather than something to break some new ground?

05-18-2002 01:57 AM

Felipe
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 560

Re: What the hell

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
I fail to see what all the brouhaha is about hi-res. Most people are satisfied with a regular screen.

Yardie,

I'm mostly satisfied with the "regular" screen, but when it comes to spread sheets I think a higher resolution would be a benefit.

05-18-2002 03:13 AM

dampeoples
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 832

Re: Re: What the hell

quote:
Originally posted by tbonney

I would disagree. Do you have stats on people's satisfaction with the "regular" screen? Or, are you just satisfied with 160x160?

I've never been satisfied with the pixilated screen on my Visor Prism. Why should I be? Why shouldn't Handspring keep up with the rest of the industry in screen resolution?

We are talking about a new Handspring handheld that fails to be innovative. There is nothing new here. Its a treo minus the wireless phone. Should we be excited that this feels like an after thought device rather than something to break some new ground?

Do you have stats on satisfaction from people with hires screens?
if you are not satisfied with your prism, as you say, then just get another handheld. Who is the rest of the industry? palm? 160x160 - they make the OS, they make the rules, hires is essentially a hack right now. handera? they make a 320x240. Sony? they sell hires models, hardly industry standard.
Ok, so there is nothing new here as you put it, maybe someone else would like to purchase one due to the convient little package it comes in, just because you don't want one doesn't make the product less exciting for others.

05-18-2002 04:20 AM

tbonney
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Rushville, Indiana, USA
Posts: 24

Re: Re: Re: What the hell

quote:
Originally posted by dampeoples

Do you have stats on satisfaction from people with hires screens?

No I don't but, I'm not the one who claimed that "most people are satisfied." I'd like to see stats either way. It appears to me that Sony is grabbing more market share. I'd like to know how much of that relates to a better screen.

If people want to be excited about the 90 thats fine with me. I'd just be more excited if it was actually something new. I'd like to see handspring survive. The Treo is a ground breaking product. For the most part, I'm just surprised that they are coming out with the 90 and not doing anything new, other than the SD slot.

All it looks like is a way to kill the visor line with dignity. I'm sorry to see the springboard slot go. It had more possibilities than the SD slot seems to have, at least at this point.

05-18-2002 10:27 AM

dampeoples
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 832

Re: Re: Re: Re: What the hell

quote:
Originally posted by tbonney

No I don't but, I'm not the one who claimed that "most people are satisfied." I'd like to see stats either way. It appears to me that Sony is grabbing more market share. I'd like to know how much of that relates to a better screen.

If people want to be excited about the 90 thats fine with me. I'd just be more excited if it was actually something new. I'd like to see handspring survive. The Treo is a ground breaking product. For the most part, I'm just surprised that they are coming out with the 90 and not doing anything new, other than the SD slot.

All it looks like is a way to kill the visor line with dignity. I'm sorry to see the springboard slot go. It had more possibilities than the SD slot seems to have, at least at this point.

You have to remember that you are surrounded by 'power users' and enthuiasists(sp???), not the average joe with the $99 rig and a few phone numbers. There are very few hires apps anyway. So you think Sony is grabbing market share and you want to attribute that to the hires screen, what about handera? If palm does not support it, what do you have? A hack.
The 90 IS something new. It has the keyboard and is in that nifty little case. Again, HS is not aiming at you - the repeat cusomer, thy are filling a void to make their product line more appealing. i like the SB too, but in reality these convergance devices that the visor + module created always left something to be desired for me, but oh well, maybe i can sell my modules in 14 years on ebay as antiques and send my lile girl to college...

05-18-2002 04:01 PM

argent
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 391

Re: Doomed!?

quote:
Originally posted by razorpit
Wow, almost 24 hours after the news of a new Handsping product and these are all the comments? I remember the days when a leak like this would stir multiple threads and discussions.

That's because Handspring used to sell products that were worth discussing. The Treo is yet another dead end, like the Edge. If you want a handheld with a thumboard you can get one without losing handwriting recognition from anyone, these days. Having it built in just limits your options.

quote:
With this kind of lack luster response on a Handsping "junkie" message board, they are doomed out on the open market...

This isn't a Handspring Junkie message board, it's a Visor Junkie message board. The Treo isn't a Visor, it has none of the attributes that make a Visor interesting, so why do you expect anyone here to care?

__________________
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC<br>
<a href=http://www.taronga.com/~peter/>Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?</a>

05-18-2002 11:54 PM

argent
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 391

Re: Re: Re: Re: What the hell

quote:
Originally posted by tbonney
I'd like to see handspring survive. The Treo is a ground breaking product.

I don't really care if Handspring survives or not. I just want to see the Visor survive. But...

quote:
The Treo is a ground breaking product.

If by that you mean it broke the ground for the Visor's grave, well, I suppose so. Otherwise, well... the Qualcomm PdQ was a groundbreaking product. The Treo is more a "me too" deal.

__________________
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC<br>
<a href=http://www.taronga.com/~peter/>Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?</a>

05-19-2002 12:56 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

They're scared because they wish to post a profit, so they play the safe game. This is not impressive to the old-timers who purchased HS because the safe game wasn't cutting it then and certainly isn't now. Palm has played the game they always have, leaving innovation to Handera and Sony.

It's rather irritating for me because I've never been impressed with Sony's hi-res implementation, but since it comes with color in a pretty package it has apparently taken hold. I've been hoping for HS (or Palm) to go with Handera's implementation, at least to lend credibility if not to also increase development. I hope for Handera's sake the next device is pretty. I hope for Handspring's sake the next device doesn't suck under the hood.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Last edited by dick-richardson on 05-19-2002 at 03:14 AM

05-19-2002 03:02 AM

tbonney
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Rushville, Indiana, USA
Posts: 24

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
It's rather irritating for me because I've never been impressed with Sony's hi-res implementation, but since it comes with color in a pretty package it has apparently taken hold. I've been hoping for HS (or Palm) to go with Handera's implementation, at least to lend credibility if not to also increase development. I hope for Handera's sake the next device is pretty. I hope for Handspring's sake the next device doesn't suck under the hood.

What is the advantage of Handara's hi-res implementation over Sony's?

05-19-2002 01:11 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by tbonney
What is the advantage of Handara's hi-res implementation over Sony's?

It had always been soft graffiti. Now it is a more muddied issue. From what I have seen, Sony's 320x480 leads to either a change in form factor or rectangular pixels. As far as development, Handera's implementation is easier to adjust for (though with an admittedly poorer 'fall-back' if worse comes to worse).

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

05-19-2002 03:50 PM

argent
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 391

quote:
Originally posted by tbonney
What is the advantage of Handara's hi-res implementation over Sony's?

Porting a typical Palm program to the Handera involves:

1. Add resources to your program database to be used in each mode... that basically involves laying out the user-interface objects for the larger regions, and providing some larger bitmaps if you need them.

2. Add a call to your program to tell the Handera that you're prepared to handle Hi-Res displays.

So it's a one line code change, plus a little work with a layout editor.

If your program does direct screen writes, you also need to make sure you use the existing PalmOS call to find out the screen size.

Porting a program to the Sony requires:

1. Add resources to your program database to be used in each mode... that basically involves laying out the user-interface objects for the larger regions, and providing some larger bitmaps if you need them.

2. Find every line of code in your program that uses the PalmOS API, and modify it to check if it's running on a Sony with a high-res screen and call Sony's high-res variant of the PalmOS API instead. Don't miss any of them or who knows what'll happen.

Basically, Palm had already provided all the hooks needed to support both modes, *if* you already used the API properly and checked for screen size. Handera basically added a call that says "this program uses the API properly and checks for screen size", and then defined the "high res form" resources so you could easily support both screen sizes in the same program.

If Sony had done that, instead of inventing a whole new API, then all programs that had been adapted for the Handera's soft keyboard would automatically work on the new Clie. But they don't seem to have anyone over there who really understands the design of the OS...

__________________
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC<br>
<a href=http://www.taronga.com/~peter/>Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?</a>

05-19-2002 06:17 PM

argent
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 391

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
As far as development, Handera's implementation is easier to adjust for (though with an admittedly poorer 'fall-back' if worse comes to worse).

What do you mean by that? Are you talking about a problem with Handera-modified programs on non-Handera devices, or are you talking about the lack of a hardware emulation of the 160x160 screen that lets the Sony fake it easier? I don't know about any problems in the former case... and the latter isn't anything to do with the API, it has to do with Handera not adding a bunch of hardware that a small company can ill-afford. There's no reason Sony couldn't have used the Handera design and still added the hardware 160x160 mapping.

__________________
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC<br>
<a href=http://www.taronga.com/~peter/>Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?</a>

05-19-2002 06:25 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by argent
...or are you talking about the lack of a hardware emulation of the 160x160 screen that lets the Sony fake it easier?

Exactly.

Speaking of which, do you know if Palm's game pack (hardball, minehunt, subhunt, puzzle) has been optimized for handera's screen?

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Last edited by dick-richardson on 05-19-2002 at 11:24 PM

05-19-2002 11:18 PM

razorpit
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 32

Re: Re: Doomed!?

quote:
Originally posted by argent
This isn't a Handspring Junkie message board, it's a Visor Junkie message board. The Treo isn't a Visor, it has none of the attributes that make a Visor interesting, so why do you expect anyone here to care?

Well Argent, considering there are 4,606 messages posted to date on the Treo product line, 114 of which are on the 270 which even isn't available yet. I would condsider this a Handspring Junkie site. Sorry if you don't see things the same way....

--Dave

05-20-2002 06:08 PM

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