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Iraqi Ministry of Oil vs. Iraqi Hospital

Today a correspondent of a Swiss TV station mentioned that the Iraqi Minstry of Oil was guarded by marines, while US troops refused to stop the looting in the hospitals of Baghdad, even after being asked to do so by the Red Cross and by doctors from these hospitals.

So first you wound and kill lots of civilians for the public good, and then you do close to nothing to help those people after you have "freed" them? Really bad luck that the US signed the Geneva Convention, meaning that they agreed that the occupying force is responsible for the wellbeing of the people in the occupied territory.

But we all understand that the the US troops have to protect the Ministry of Oil and not hospitals, I mean, you have to set priorities, no?

This way, the US may win the war, but never peace.

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What exactly are they protecting in the Ministry of Oil?

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quote:

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Originally posted by yardie
What exactly are they protecting in the Ministry of Oil?

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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 734

Until I see supporting evidence, I cannot really conclude that this was as you describe. For all we know the reporter happen to walk by as they were searching the building...

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The world is filled with whiners...

I see a lot of common people in the streets happy to actually be out from under a dictator�s rule.

Did you happen to glimpse the interior of the palace(s) that Saddam was living in? Did you happen to see the squalor in the cities around the palaces?

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This does not mean that the war was/is right.

Besides, there is no difference between Saddam's palaces and the slums around, and Manhattan and the slums around it.

quote:

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Originally posted by MIKE STH
The world is filled with whiners...

I see a lot of common people in the streets happy to actually be out from under a dictator�s rule.

Did you happen to glimpse the interior of the palace(s) that Saddam was living in? Did you happen to see the squalor in the cities around the palaces?

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quote:

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Originally posted by clulup So first you wound and kill lots of civilians for the public good, and then you do close to nothing to help those people after you have "freed" them? Really bad luck that the US signed the Geneva Convention, meaning that they agreed that the occupying force is responsible for the wellbeing of the people in the occupied territory.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike

What are you smoking?

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Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
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quote:

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Originally posted by ToolkiT

<puts on mod had>
No need to for personal attack.. you know better than that
</puts on mod had>

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Just wanted to know he had achieved such a complete break from reality

Thanks for the reprimand. I'll try to be better.

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Yes. The U.S. have a higher average income than Iraq. The wealth is concentrated ine hands of a couple of million people. It is not spread out. The same applies to Iraq. The wealth was concentrated in the hands of Saddam and his tribal circle. The slums in Baghdad among the lavish palaces... and the slums in NYC amoing the lavish / upscale buildings in Manhattan are indication of this.

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike


What are you smoking? Do you hate the US so much?

I think the average income in the US is a tad bit higher than in Iraq.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yardie
Yes. The U.S. have a higher average income than Iraq. The wealth is concentrated ine hands of a couple of million people. It is not spread out. The same applies to Iraq. The wealth was concentrated in the hands of Saddam and his tribal circle. The slums in Baghdad among the lavish palaces... and the slums in NYC amoing the lavish / upscale buildings in Manhattan are indication of this.

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Registered: Apr 2002
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I just heard confirmation on NPR (I'm assuming they have no vested interest in making this up) that the Marines indeed did protect the Ministry of Oil while other Gov't Ministries were not defended. I heard nothing about hospitals, but it seems logical to conclude the two were going on concurrently.

It may be simply a cold-hearted, rational calculation: Protecting the wealth of Iraq will save more people than any single hopital. Of course you can also see a selfish motive as well.

I will repeat now what I've told my friends for the past few months. The moral justness of this war will not be decided for a long time. I think that if the administration sticks to its pledge to not raid the country's oil, it will have been a just war. If it does what every previous conqueror has done, it will not have been a just war, and everyone in the decision making chain should be punished.

It's interesting to think that the real tricky stuff starts now. After most of the bombs have stopped falling.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yardie
Yes. The U.S. have a higher average income than Iraq. The wealth is concentrated ine hands of a couple of million people. It is not spread out. The same applies to Iraq. The wealth was concentrated in the hands of Saddam and his tribal circle. The slums in Baghdad among the lavish palaces... and the slums in NYC amoing the lavish / upscale buildings in Manhattan are indication of this.

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I think you are missing my point. A so called first world country as rich as the U.S should not have places that look like places in the third world. It is interesting that when the media is showcasing NYC they show Manhattan and when they are showcasing third world countries they focus on the ugly parts.

As for the wealth spreading out. I recall reading somewhere a while back that like 25% of the U.S's wealth is concentrated in only 2% of the population. It seems that you live in a wealthy enclave -- far away from the poor innercity slums...

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike


Yer being silly again. Since the average income in Iraq was around $1000 and the average income in the USA is at least 20 - 25 times that, maybe more, how can you compare the two? Especially from "evidence" from one trip to New York city ( Not esp. average America)?
The majority of the houses sold in my area is either in the $100,000 - $200,000 range or in the above $350,000 range (and 2003 was a record year for new house sales) , who's buying these house if it's not average people. The wealth in America is very well spread out. You could stop by my area and I could introduce you to some average citizens (carpenters, nurses, teachers, plumbers) and they could show you that they're doing quite well, thank you. Most families I know have at least 2 cars, sometimes 3 or 4. Families in Iraq feel lucky if someone close to them has a car.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yardie
I think you are missing my point. A so called first world country as rich as the U.S should not have places that look like places in the third world. It is interesting that when the media is showcasing NYC they show Manhattan and when they are showcasing third world countries they focus on the ugly parts.

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

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ehhh...

I think Yardie may have a better argument if he pointed to the applachia region of the US. Rampant poverty, jobs that evaporated decades ago and food is sometimes hard to come by.

Sure, this may also be true in some really deep inner city regions of NYC/Philly/LA/Metropolis/Gotham City, but many of those large cities have a significant social services infrastructure to help. Applachia doesn't even have a clue what social services would be needed.

I believe President Clinton highlighted this region a few years ago during his last year in office but Congress was unable to pass anything significant to help.

A few years ago, I had to go to a wedding in the area for a friend of my wife's. Let me tell you: I've been to third-world countries (ever driven through the poor parts of some caribbean islands?) and when I drove thorough some of these towns on our way to the church, you couldn't help but think of these third world countries.

Fortunately, our friend qualified for scholarships and was the first in her family to attend college and is doing very well these days.

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I have mixed feelings about the Appalachian analogy. On the one hand, yes there is quite a bit of 'poverty' there. On the other, I'm sure that driving through a lot of parts of the area where I live, many would get the same impression. The real question, though, would be what the people who live there think. If given the opportunity to become 'average Americans', would they leave their area and take it? Or does their way of life in relative 'poverty' offer them something they can't find elsewhere? I know what nearly all of the 'poor' people around here would say.

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So maybe we're talking about freedom?

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Freedom from what exactly? If you are thinking freedom from poverty?

The U.S government can more than afford to take care of its downtrodden if the it has $70 billion to spend to invade a sovereign country, and $400 billion dollar to maintain an army annually. But takign care of the downtrodden is not the American Way right? It is every (wo)man for her/himself.

I think the priorities are all wrong.

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
So maybe we're talking about freedom?

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Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:

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Originally posted by yardie
Freedom from what exactly? If you are thinking freedom from poverty?

The U.S government can more than afford to take care of its downtrodden if the it has $70 billion to spend to invade a sovereign country, and $400 billion dollar to maintain an army annually. But takign care of the downtrodden is not the American Way right? It is every (wo)man for her/himself.

I think the priorities are all wrong.

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