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Topic: Help save our schools in Massachusetts

crackheadmike
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 50

Help save our schools in Massachusetts

Hello folks
Just wanted to invite anyone who lives in and around boston to the boston common and rally against the cuts that state imposed on higher education.

Who will be there supporters of Higher ed.
All 15 community colleges in mass.
Students from Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Connecticut.
Faculty,Teachers and Proffessors from local schools including state funded colleges.
Supporting Colleges:
Holyoke Community College
Springfield Technical Community College
Springfield College
University of Massachusetts- Amherst
University of Massachusetts- Lowell
University of Massachusetts- boston
Middlesex Community College
Elms College
Bay Path College
Smith College
Bunker Hill Community College
Westfield State College
Berkshire Community College
North Shore Community College
Cape Cod Community College
Salem State College
Emerson and everyone else who wants to support Higher education and our Libraries. Hope to see everyone there! This started off with public college students and has gained the support of faculty, private colleges, other organizations, local unions and members of community
Time:
12:30
Date:
April 9, 2002
Place:
Boston Common & Boston State House

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03-31-2002 05:00 AM

miradu
TreoCentral Staff

Registered: May 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1429

It's not just colleges, and it's not just MA. Here in Minnesota we are suffering bad bad ALREAYD CUT budsgetsfor the schools. IT's great, we can't afford paper (seriously), we can't afford teachers (cutting 9 positions causies 45 sections of classes to be lost, and in a school of 2300+ that means at least 2 more kids in every class of class size 35+)

Oh yeah, I love this system even more. We can't afford the staff positions for in school suspension, or even better to have hte school open saturday for saturday school. which means that they can only give oyu detention and nothign more muhahaa!

btw, our superintendant drives a $60,000 car...

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03-31-2002 05:09 AM

crackheadmike
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 50

Thanks for the reply, It is so sad to hear that all our schools have been cut. I believe that education is the number one initiative in reducing crime, and improving our work source and with a record increase in enrollment in colleges the last thing that should be cut is our schools. We were not having this problem a couple of years ago. I do not want to blame or point fingers but we cannot cut education anymore. Hopefully this could be the first rally of many. This started out as a small community college team, we teamed up with University of massachussetss. Other Schools followed including Students from our neighbors, Connecticut and Rhode Island. In Massachusetts everything has been cut. from Athletic Departments being cut and in some schools eliminated. To ALL libraries being cut up to 70% some have been forced to close down. To Day care centers being closed down jeopordising the careers and futures of single parents throughout the state. So much has been affected that it would take me all day to post. It is so sad to hear that we are not alone. The last thing the US needs to cut is our schools.

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03-31-2002 06:03 AM

thorin
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 415

bah. even here in vancouver, bc. its cuts cuts and more cuts. seems. but weve had a pretty easy ride here so far.

the darndest thing about america is that theres always money so spend on 400,000$ missiles....

of course, here in canada, we dont even have any aircraft carriers, so that's hardly the problem.

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03-31-2002 08:12 AM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

Nightline once did a series on risks, what you are most likely to die from- crashes, disease, etc.

Despite all the media hype on some ways to go (drive bys, cancer, AIDS, etc., the top two things that kill the most people in America are almost unheard of- poverty and lack of education.

Lack of education puts people in high-risk settings in hundreds of subtle ways- but because it is subtle and usually takes a long time to occur, it is easy to ignore- especially by law-makers more concerned about short-term issues like polls and re-election.

On the other hand- there is probably not a government program that does not need to be running tighter and smarter. When government agencies, including schools, get cut, they tend to cut in places that make a big public splash- art, music, paper, etc. instead of cutting the real fat (the cutting of which would prove that the hated budgetmasters were right).

It is really interesting how many private schools can deliver solid educations to the students for a LOT less per student then state-run/sponsered schools can (often at 1:10 or even higher ratios) and STILL offer music and the other programs the state schools always threaten need to go under the budget squeezes.

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03-31-2002 02:55 PM

bolson
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 56

Public shcools are also required BY LAW to educate everyone of a certain age. I know for a fact in my home town of Lincoln, NE that >30% of the budget for students goes to educate a very small minority. This is mainly due to special education which requires special bus pick ups etc. In addition public schools have to pay for "misfits" to attend special schools as well as providing services for pregnant students, English as a second language students etc. In reality you cannot compare private to public schools because of this.

It always amazes me that people would rather save $200 on their taxes than finance their future with schools. What amazes me more, being a graduate of the University of Nebraska, is that people will spend thousands of dollars to attend a football bowl game, but balk when tuition increases a couple of hundred bucks a years. Then they go home and complain about state income taxes. The fact is, education will never be free. As a society we just need to realize that it is the duty of the entire populus to educate everyone.

We can't continue to build $400,000 bombs if we don't have anyone smart enough to build them

03-31-2002 05:13 PM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

quote:
Originally posted by bolson
Public shcools are also required BY LAW to educate everyone of a certain age.

And that is indeed part of the problem.

We DO spend a lot of money on people who choose to not be educated and would rather be somewhere else, AND on people with special needs who might be better served under a different system (although there certainly ARE youth with special needs who need and benefit from a traditional education, or from a classroom setting). There is also the growing problem of small districts with few students, but too great of distances to effectively merge with others, and so on.

But, this is only part of the problem.

They also spend a lot of money on people, programs, and resources that deliver poor value for the costs.

Can we FIX the schools and education system by throwing money at it? Not according to past experiences.

But, can we FIX it by starving it financially? Again, not according to past experiences!

Money is not the only problem OR the only solution!

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04-01-2002 06:30 AM

BobbyMike
Member

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

I guess this is the reason my wife stopped glassblowing to teach our kids. We're homeschooling our boys. We still pay school taxes though. If you really want to get pissed off at where you're tax money goes, check out all the industry that gets subsidized on a State and a Federal level.

It'a really amazing how people can justify beggaring our future (children) to make a buck now.

But then, the mission of the Public School System is noy to give good educations to the Nations' children, but to educate them in what it means to be a "good citizen".

Socialization in any form sucks!!

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04-02-2002 01:36 AM

volcanopele
Member

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 366

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike

But then, the mission of the Public School System is noy to give good educations to the Nations' children, but to educate them in what it means to be a "good citizen".

[Rant]
Whether or not schools succeed at this is not the point but the fact that it is necessary is a very scary thing. Too many parents expect that the schools will teach their kids everything and that they, as parents, have no responsiblity in their child's education beyond buying school supplies and taking them to and from school. There are also too many parents who expect the rest of society to take of their children. My brother told me the other day about a group of kids who were causing problems at the theater he is a manager at. They would run into all the theaters, scream, and rush out. Eventually, my brother caught the lot of them. They of course came back later. Finally, he found out from the general manager that one of the heathens had been doing the same thing a week earlier. So they called the police and pressed trespassing charges against that particular kid. The mother arrived and was quite angry, not at her son, but at the police and the theater workers. She was angered that they would prevent her son from playing at the theater. After all, if she can't leave her son at a movie theater to play for a few hours while she worked, where can she leave him?
If you want to see where a lot of the problems with the public education system, you have to look at everyone, the schools themselves who try to be everything at once to everyone, teachers who are overstressed with humongous classes and often times an uncaring administration, parents who expect the schools to be a babysitter, teacher, and parent to their kids, and society.
As far as money goes, it is the price we pay to hope we can make our society a more perfect place. Money isn't the cure all though. Everyone has to be one the same page: the adminstration, the teachers, the parents, the students, and society in general. Money, when allocated correctly can help with alleviating class sizes among other things, but it won't fix all of our education system's ills.
[/RANT]

Jason

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04-02-2002 01:59 AM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

The history and theory of education is an interesting topic, but what truely scares me is the current multi-facted problem in America (at least) we have with both education and our young people.

Todays parents worry me- the story about the youth in the theater is, unfortunately, more common than w would want to see. My wife, in Kindergarten, gets a lot of flack from parents when she gives low grades or sends behavior notes home.

In my day (and man, am I sounding like my dad here!), if teacher sent home a note about my behavior, it was a given that the note was accurate and any story I told was, shall we say... less reliable? There was every chance that I was going to get punished somehow, and probably have to apologize to the teacher the next day.

Now? The fault is not little Timmy's- according to the parents today the teacher should have provided more supervision or structure, besides the other kids started it- they always do. Besides, Timmy never behaves this way at home, and he told us he did nto do it.

A bad grade? How could that be? Timmy watches Sesame Street and other educational shows for several hours a day. When we quiz him at home he is smart as a whip- and besides, he should get some points just for being a good kid! Obviously, the bad grade is a reflection of the teachers poor understanding of Timmy and his specialness.

I am not sure how we got to this place where our children are being raised by cliches, smothering protectiveness, and massive over-programming (parents as shuttle-bus drivers taking their kids to all kinds of classes, activities, groups, etc.), but it is certainly an unusual world out there right now, isn't it?

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04-02-2002 04:10 PM

Yorick
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

Originally posted by BobbyMike
If you really want to get pissed off at where you're tax money goes, check out all the industry that gets subsidized on a State and a Federal level.
That's 'cuz so many of those industries paid to get people in office.

But then, the mission of the Public School System is noy to give good educations to the Nations' children, but to educate them in what it means to be a "good citizen".
which I've found means "good conformist."

Socialization in any form sucks!!
Does that include socialized medicine?

Originally posted by Madkins007
Besides, Timmy never behaves this way at home, and he told us he did nto do it.
My neighbor's kid is an inveterate liar -- and not very god at it; I've caught him in a lie several times. Parents seem to forget that many children will do whatever they can to have things go their way, especially if it means more fun for them. And, that kids think parents are stupid, and that they felt the same way when they were kids about their own parents. (the worst part being when adult children continue to treat their parents as if they're stupid.)

I am not sure how we got to this place where our children are being raised by cliches, smothering protectiveness, and massive over-programming (parents as shuttle-bus drivers taking their kids to all kinds of classes, activities, groups, etc.), but it is certainly an unusual world out there right now, isn't it?
oh yeah.

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04-02-2002 06:10 PM

BobbyMike
Member

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

"Does that include socialized medicine? "

To make that work you would have to pay the Physicians a decent wage to cover school, unless you paid for medical school. I know that the Doctors I know don't like the idea of it. Any doctors out there in favor of it.? It couldn't be worse than HMOs.

"[Rant] Whether or not schools succeed ... but it won't fix all of our education system's ills.
[/RANT]

I agree. The problem isn't easily fixed because of it's causes. I really think that the 1960-70s screwed up life for kids now. I know lots of nice teachers, almost all are in favor of homeschooling BTW, and they are not satisfied with the way they have so little time for teaching. The feel like babysitters.

Good parents can make up for a bad teacher, but I don't think a good teacher can make up for a bad parent.

Smaller schools and class sizes. More teachers, less bureacrats (sic), better wages for teachers and more responsibility and freedom for the teachers. Bad teachers get better, or leave (no tenure). Good teachers get bonuses and adulation of the masses. 'Public' Television gets no more Federal funds while it pimps Barney and Sesame Street merchandise. Every monkey gets a typewriter. Every camel gets a straw.

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04-03-2002 08:10 AM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
I agree. The problem isn't easily fixed because of it's causes. I really think that the 1960-70s screwed up life for kids now. I know lots of nice teachers, almost all are in favor of homeschooling BTW, and they are not satisfied with the way they have so little time for teaching. The feel like babysitters.

Well, I know a lot of teachers that are against Home Schooling, because they don't want the kids in the hands of some of these parents they see- mediocre parents do not seem the logical choice for good teachers. On the other hand, most of the teachers I know work for small parochial schools.

I also think some of the programs of the 60's & 70's messed a lot of things up- that could be a whole other rant/post!

quote:
Smaller schools and class sizes. More teachers, less bureacrats (sic), better wages for teachers and more responsibility and freedom for the teachers. Bad teachers get better, or leave (no tenure). Good teachers get bonuses and adulation of the masses.

Huh- except for the pay and adulation, this pretty much describes most church-based schools. Maybe that is why they tend to be successful? (Yeah, I know- one popular theory bashing the success of these schools is the idea that they can kick 'bad' students out- an option not shared by the public schools. That may be a factor- but it is a pretty small one! Most of these schools rarely kick students out- even if they don't pay the tuition!)

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04-03-2002 03:53 PM

BobbyMike
Member

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

"Well, I know a lot of teachers that are against Home Schooling, because they don't want the kids in the hands of some of these parents they see- mediocre parents do not seem the logical choice for good teachers. On the other hand, most of the teachers I know work for small parochial schools. "

"Mediocre" parents don't home school their kids. They're content to hand off that reponsibility to someone else. Parents who take the extra time and money to homeschool their kids can also give much more time to their children than any teacher (regardless of school) could. Home schooled kids also score much higher on all standardized tests than children anywhere else. Quality plus quantity always wins out.

"Huh- except for the pay and adulation, this pretty much describes most church-based schools. Maybe that is why they tend to be successful? (Yeah, I know- one popular theory bashing the success of these schools is the idea that they can kick 'bad' students out- an option not shared by the public schools. That may be a factor- but it is a pretty small one! Most of these schools rarely kick students out- even if they don't pay the tuition!)"

Probably. I wish we could throw out the public school model, which has never worked well, and implement some sweeping changes. Unfortunately the nimrods running the show can't admit that they're running pell mell down the wrong road and most parents appear too apathetic to call for those changes. I would love to see a good church based school open up in my area, in fact we've been trying to organize one from my church (which happens to be in Mass). The problem is the money issue. We live in a rural area and not enough people around us could afford the extra money required for tuition. Most people around here don't make a tremendous amount. Luckily we have a very active Home schooling movement and we are able to tap into each for group classes each Friday. I've taught several Cartooning/History of Comics classes and my wife has taught art classes. Home schooling parents tend to be pretty diverse and we have some great talent to pool. Home schooling by it's very nature isn't for everyone, but for some people it's the only thing!

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04-04-2002 11:58 PM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
[BI wish we could throw out the public school model, which has never worked well, and implement some sweeping changes. (SNIP) Luckily we have a very active Home schooling movement and we are able to tap into each for group classes each Friday. I've taught several Cartooning/History of Comics classes and my wife has taught art classes. Home schooling parents tend to be pretty diverse and we have some great talent to pool. Home schooling by it's very nature isn't for everyone, but for some people it's the only thing! [/B]

Personally, I think that the next trend will be 'Community (or Co-op) Schooling'- small 'bands' of home schoolers that pool resources to create literally miniature schools that would meet at someone's home. This allows you to do just what you said about the group classes- use the local resources more effectively. Each participating family either works or pays, just like a food co-op.

I also think that 'normal' teachers will start acting as free-lance consultants for such groups- teaching specific skills that the group may be weak in, helping develop a strong curriculum, acting as a 'liaison' to the educational resources community, etc.

Your local problem with funding for starting a school is certainly not unique. Don't you sometimes wish the gov. would just set the basic standards, then get out of education? Give each student a voucher for 'X' dollars (based on grade level, local costs of living, etc.) and let them go where they want.

I envision a time when all schools are home, community, church, or business based and you as a parent can select the approach that best suits your child. Some schools would be very loose and open, others very strict and based on the 'three R's. Some would be very tech oriented, others more college prep, and others dedicated to preparing you for other fields. Apprenticeships and other job training programs, personalized content, etc.

Ah, it could be so great! (music swells: "To dream the impossible dream...")

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04-05-2002 03:22 PM