Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 119

This discussion is really interesting, but there is another point about Palm devices -- especially the Visor -- versus the big guys. It's a lot like the Apple II+ or a Volkswagon bug. It's neat to own one! And, although the Apple II+ is long gone, look around and see how many beetles you still see on the road -- people still think it's cool to own one. It gets them where they need to go! And the Visor (especially a colored one) is cool to own. And it gets you where you need to go. Sure, I now own a souped up Pentium PC and a Ford Explorer -- but I still have a fondness in my heart for their predecessors! Maybe someday I'll have a fancy schmanzy WinCE device with all the bells and whistles -- but I'll still have a fondness for my blue Visor Deluxe!

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

SherylKing � exactly!

The cycle looks something like this ... desire leads to purchase, which leads to disappointment/apathy, which leads to renewed desire � and on and on and on. That�s how we consume our material goods. Companies know this (Handspring�s Springboard is a perfect example!). That�s why Atari was replaced by Sega, Sega was replaced by Nintendo, and Nintendo was replaced by Sony. Palm, EPOC, and MS are in the middle of playing the same game.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

Right, Ken. And I think it is our knowledge that markets do evolve that makes all Palm OS device owners nervous. As Gameboy70 said: "At some point you have to account for what's possible with the current state of the art vs. form and cost constraints. What makes the Springboard so attractive is that you can add features selectively without exceeding those constrains."

I think the underlying concern is that the Pocket PC and Symbian's Quartz are demonstrating that the equilibrium point is shifting (or will do so soon); and we are not seeing the encouraging signs that Palm has a coherent plan for evolving the platform (never mind articulating such a plan!). Yes. The Springboard does mitigate the situation by allowing some device morphing . . . which should make Visor owners alittle more comfortable than their Palm cousins.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 10

Listen guys, these bigger, more powerful, subnotebook style PDAs have existed a long time, predating the Palm, and have yet to take off. I couldn't care less about MP3s and video out of a handheld PDA, because I don't need to lug a big multimedia capable machine with me. I'm a 23 year old too, so market research probably would predict that I would be interested. I am also not interested in a big cell phone that also is a PDA. I want something for my adresses, maybe some maps and city info, storing reference material, and something to jot notes in. That is why I got a TRG-Pro.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Who's nervous? Of course markets change. 5 yrs ago no one would have guessed that Nintendo would lose its title in the video game market. It looks like it will be a 2 horse race against Sony, but those two will always be there.

As for what will happen when the PocketPC is released, no one (not even IDC) can say for sure what will happen. IMHO, until WinCE has quality products at <$300, it will be a very long time before "doomsday." DVD is far superior to VHS, but it's taken lower prices for it to take off (get a DVD player now BTW )

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James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Brighthand has pics of the new Compaq Pocket PC...the iPaq? It looks pretty cool!!! According to the article the unit is the same size as a Palm III

www.brighthand.com

[This message has been edited by foo fighter (edited 03-28-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

Maybe nervous isn�t the best word to use. How about fatigued? My whole point here hasn�t been to prophesize the death of Palm, or to declare the glories of WinCE. I�m more fascinated by the market itself. I know plenty of parents with young kids who are worn out by the whole video game treadmill, and for good reason! They (or their kids) spend hundreds � maybe even thousands � of dollars on Nintendo consoles and games. After a year or so, boredom sets in, and soon that Nintendo is being sold at a garage sale for $20, replaced by the Sony Playstation. (This will be replaced next year by Nintendo�s Dolphin or Microsoft�s X-Box).

I mention all of this because DESIRES change, and manufacturers have to work to keep up with these ever changing desires. To date, Palm has �hit the nail on the head� in regards to the PDA pulse. But the *sense* I get is that they are now content with releasing �upgrades� based mainly on structural modifications, all the while thinking, �Oh, we *know* the market. We *know* what people want in a PDA.� Baloney! The market is constantly changing, NOT so much because technology is changing (of course, it�s changing too), but because the consumers LIKES and DISLIKES are changing.

Case in point � 500,000 consumers recently downloaded Stephan King�s short story. Microsoft and (hopefully) Palm take note of this and return to their drawing boards dreaming up ways in which they can integrate user friendly e-book apps. into their next PDA.

BTW � James, you do a great job with this site. Thanks for playing the role of �moderator.�

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

From what I've seen, Palm has been pretty aggressive recently. Maybe they needed to get out from the coattails of 3COM. Licensing the OS is a huge step in the right direction. Making a color Palm is too. Have you seen all of the announcements about incorporating Adobe PDF and Yahoo wireless into future revs of the PalmOS? Every day I look for news, be it Palm or Handspring. Every day there is an announcement of some kind. Not all of it is newsworthy, but every day people are working to make the PalmOS even better. Don't worry. Palm isn't sitting on their laurels.

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James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 34

A quick note to Ken -

In one of your previous posts, you mentioned that one day you will be able to control your sprinker from your PDA. That day is here now (though not available for sale). IBM has demonstrated this type of thing, only they control the lights in the house with a dimmer. The PDA they use to control it? A Palm!!!!!

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Who needs Springboard modules...look at this!!
http://www.aurorawebstudio.com/4.jpg



[This message has been edited by foo fighter (edited 03-29-2000).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 170

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ratbertio:
A quick note to Ken -

In one of your previous posts, you mentioned that one day you will be able to control your sprinker from your PDA. That day is here now (though not available for sale). IBM has demonstrated this type of thing, only they control the lights in the house with a dimmer. The PDA they use to control it? A Palm!!!!!

---

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

I must admit my jaw dropped in disbelief when I read Ratbertio's comment ...

"The PDA they use to control it? A Palm!!!!!"

I heard it was coming, but via Palm? Wow. And what about 3Com's efforts to network our appliances?

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

I also don't see evidence of Palm atrophying. People who talk about Palm losing its grip on the market overlook one salient fact: it's not happening. Palm's share of the market between 1998 and 1999 increased by 12%, while WinCE declined by 5%. No, Palm isn't sexy, but people aren't buying handheld computers just to be on the cutting edge. The product happens to be useful. Springboards are wonderful, but the main selling point of the Visor is the $250 price tag. MP3s, pagers, GPS modules, etc. are just a bonus.

More importantly, we don't have to pay for the bells and whistles we don't want. My sense of Jeff Hawkins' and Palm's philosophy (the Zen of Palm in a nutshell) is: What is the irreducable feature set? Anything that's not essential -- speadsheets, MP3 players, voice recorders, etc. -- should be made optional, and not be bundled with the basic unit. That's what keeps the cost low, and what keeps consumers wanting more (the "desire" factor, as Ken might put it), and leave the market open for third party solutions. Note that the minimal set now will not be the minimal set in three years. For instance, the Pilot 1000 didn't have IR. Three years from now, or probably sooner, we will take color screens for granted. But right now it's too expensive.

Gameboy's Law: A good handheld computer will always do half of what people want.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

quote:

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Originally posted by JHromadka:
From what I've seen, Palm has been pretty aggressive recently. Maybe they needed to get out from the coattails of 3COM. Licensing the OS is a huge step in the right direction. Making a color Palm is too. Have you seen all of the announcements about incorporating Adobe PDF and Yahoo wireless into future revs of the PalmOS? Every day I look for news, be it Palm or Handspring. Every day there is an announcement of some kind. Not all of it is newsworthy, but every day people are working to make the PalmOS even better. Don't worry. Palm isn't sitting on their laurels.

---

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Yucca, as you say, it does depend on your interpretation. And believe me, I'm not saying that Palm couldn't move faster in inmproving the OS - I was rather disappointed that the IIIc didn't use color more effectively in the Datebook and Phonebook applications. I could write an entire article on things I wish were a little different (like size limits). I see the PDF viewer as a great thing, because now I will be able to read those files more easily. I mentioned that because some people feel that Clear Text is the "Next Big Thing(TM)." I don't know everything that the Yahoo agreement will bring.

I will say that licensing the OS as Palm has done will keep the company "honest." Read above for things Palm has done just since the Visor came out. And other licensees will cause Palm to get better as well in all areas, including the OS.

What I am glad to see is that Palm is getting into the wireless game where (for better or worse), the web and PDA functions are coming to cell phones. Branching out like this is crucial, because in about 5 years, there will not be a PDA that is not wireless.

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

I have posted a web paqe containing all available pics of the Compaq Pocket PC.
http://www.aurorawebstudio.com/ipaq.htm

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Oops! looks like the heat is on from Microsoft's legal dept. They are advising all sites to remove the offending graphics. Sorry!

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 46

There has been a lot of talk about the price of the forthcoming PocketPC's vs. the visor / palm products. According to stories on ZDNet, the color "deluxe" pocketpc's will be price-competitive with the color palm. Handspring has yet to enter this segment...

On the other hand, the black and white "standard" pocketpc's are reported ( http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/n...2445529,00.html ) to start at $199 which sounds pretty competitive to our Visors... My hope is (as I've posted previously) that the b/w screen on these units will improve the results for battery life on the pocketpc, although i realize that with the higher resolution screen it will never be as long as my visor deluxe...

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 103

Really it is simply a matter of perspective. Some people-palm people like the idea of having simple inexpensive quality devices that have the option of using expanding to perform specific functions. These functions- while non integrated-are not perminent. If some developer get the newest latest greatest mp3 player or modem a palm user who's modem and or mp3 player are not integrated into their pda are can simply replace their old one with the new one while the wince-integrated-everything-used-to-be-state-of-the-art-and-now-its-not has to buy yet another elaboratly expensive pda.

Who is going to be happier with their toy ?
Its like foolish laptop manufacturers a few years ago who made machines without pcmcia and integrate everything instead. Now a days no laptop manufacturer worth a damn sells machine without pcmcia.

Likewise no-one wants to buy a piece of hardware and get stuck without the option to perform a task. If I buy an l&h pda because I want voice recognition will I be as happy as I would be if I just bought an ibm viavoice module for my existing pda that runs through my irda port ?

Do you think maybe that killer app is not the palm or visor. It is the ability to cheaply get a custom device that does what you choose for it to do and then later on do something differient. Who cares if your pda does everything if you end up paying for 1000 things that you dont wan't to 6 things you do want ?

Simplicity has its advantages.
Affordability is one of them.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 391

Something is seriously broken in UBB. I wrote a long response to Foo Fighter's message and it has vanished, replaced by the original unedited message I started with.

I suspect that when it prompts you to enter your password it loses track of what you're editing...

I will try and reconstruct it later. This is too frustrating to go through it all again and pull my train of thought back together.

[This message has been edited by argent (edited 04-02-2000).]