Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 24

I've just moved to a new area and would really be helped out by getting a GPS receiver but I have a couple questions for folks that are "in the know" about GPS. Can I get a better overall GPS receiver for the same price as the HandyGPS? I'm not really concerned about the cool factor of being able to turn my Visor into a GPS receiver so I'm more concerned about functionality and usability. For instance, I've heard that the HandyGPS drains batteries pretty quickly but I'm assuming most standard street level GPS units have AC adaptors for cars. Also, is the Visor's screen large enough to compete with similiar priced standard GPS unit? Are there advantages to getting a Springboard such as being able to update maps more often, etc.? I'm looking to buy in the next month or so (so that rules out the Geode) and would like to keep it in the $150 range. My primary use for it will be navigation in the car. Thanks for any feedback and if you think that a non-Springboard GPS unit would suit me best, can you recommend a few?

[This message has been edited by barnest2 (edited 08-06-2000).]

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 96

Hi:

quote:

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Originally posted by barnest2:
I've just moved to a new area and would really be helped out by getting a GPS receiver but I have a couple questions for folks that are "in the know" about GPS. Can [This message has been edited by barnest2 (edited 08-06-2000).]

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 24

After quite a bit of surfing and reading product reviews, I've come to these conclusions. I thought they might help those still debating about whether to buy a HandyGPS or not. First of all, the receiver that I found to be most compatible with the HandyGPS is the Garmin E-map. There are trade-offs and benefits either way. The cheapest price I found for the E-map was $189. At that price, their base map comes with: all interstate highways, federal highways, primary state roads and highways, a smattering of secondary roads and aids for determining how long it will take to reach a destination (arrows pointing when you need to make a turn.)

After adding a computer interface cable for $40, an 8MB memory card for $99 and Garmin's MetroGuide CD for $179, you get these benefits: highly detailed city maps for even the smallest burbs, address look-ups, details about freeway exits (restaurants, hotels, etc.)

All in all, you have to more than double the HandyGPS price to get all of those features but there are some important features there that the HandyGPS just doesn't do based on what I've read. One is looking up a particular address and letting the GPS guide you to your destination. The other is all of the useful information for freeway exits, etc. You'll also never have to worry about your Garmin crashing and it'll run for 12 hours on batteries alone. Another advantage is that based on what I've read, the Garmin acquires satellites much quicker than the HandyGPS and international maps are available.

Decisions decisions...

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 96

Hi:

quote:

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Originally posted by barnest2:
hours on batteries alone. Another advantage is that based on what I've read, the Garmin acquires satellites much quicker than the HandyGPS and international maps are available.

Decisions decisions...

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Nipomo, CA, USA
Posts: 5

In my case, I have a stand-alone GPS AND a Visor. That way I've got the best of both worlds. I have the Magellan GPS 315, which was under $150, and then I use DeLorme's Street Altas USA ($45) to plan trips and lookup anything (it's got a HUGE database). It's a very good program. Then I can download that route into my Visor using DeLorme's Solus Pro ($40). Then I can plug my GPS 315 into my Visor and have a moving map, or have it show me my route and tell me when to turn.

This way, I've still got a relitively cheap GPS to take hiking or other places I might damage my Visor...

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 96

Hi:

quote:

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Originally posted by barchamb:
In my case, I have a stand-alone GPS AND a Visor. That way I've got the best of both worlds. I have the Magellan GPS 315, which was under $150, and then I use DeLorme's

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 24

Another thing I'm wondering about is whether the HandyGPS suffers from not having/being able to accept an external antenna. If I get the HandyGPS, I'll probably end up getting the mount from MobilePlanet (assuming that works ok with the HandyGPS/Visor combo) so maybe that will be close enough to the windshield to get it going.

Also, something you might be able to answer Mike...I've read that it takes 5 minutes to acquire the sats and that it's best to be immobile and outside. So am I assuming correctly that everytime I want to use the unit, I have to stand next to my car for five minutes before I get in and start driving? What has been your experience with this?

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 96

Hello again:

quote:

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Originally posted by barnest2:
Another thing I'm wondering about is whether the HandyGPS suffers from not having/being able to accept an external antenna. If I get the HandyGPS, I'll probably end up getting the mount from MobilePlanet (assuming that works ok with the HandyGPS/Visor combo) so maybe that will be close enough to the windshield to get it going.

Also, something you might be able to answer Mike...I've read that it takes 5 minutes to acquire the sats and that it's best to be immobile and outside. So am I assuming correctly that everytime I want to use the unit, I have to stand next to my car for five minutes before I get in and start driving? What has been your experience with this?

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Nipomo, CA, USA
Posts: 5

quote:

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Originally posted by mavidal:
Hi:

That is pretty cool. I would guess you fashioned a Serial cable for your visor?

Mike Vidal

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Lebanon, NH, USA
Posts: 40

Mike,

Thanks a bunch for your very informative review of the HandyGPS. I agree that a Visor and GPS module/handheld combination is a better way to spend ~$400 than a dedicated mapping GPS. In my case, it was ~$480 for the "convenience" of a handheld GPS, including the 12V/serial cable adaptor.

I use a GPS315 and Visor with a homebuilt serial Hotsync adaptor, just like the setup barchamb has. I mount the handheld GPS using a cellphone suction cup mount in the left corner of the dash, and power it off the 12V socket. The GPS can also run on 2 1300 mAH AA's for over 5 hours. The Visor has run at least 8 hours on 700mAH NiMH AAA's in this configuration.

My Subaru wagon has a metal roof, and the GPS has little trouble acquiring satellites (similar to your experience). The only obvious exceptions are when I'm driving through mountainous terrain or among tall buildings in the city. I still haven't figured out a convenient way to mount the Visor in the car, though.

I don't have Street Atlas USA, so I downloaded Solus Pro 1.5 for $40. I have to download maps as necessary to load onto the Visor. Not bad, since the Solus Pro 1.5 Map Connect software is very similar to MapQuest and Expedia Maps, and I get customized routes along with time/distance to next turn, etc. It can even display the Visor's battery voltage. Too bad they are annoying Solus Pro bugs that seem to correlate to certain geographical locations.

Question: how quick is your moving map update on the Visor? Solus Pro 1.5 seems to have a fixed 1-3 second delay between the data on the GPS and the map update on the Visor. Great for city driving, but I must plan ahead if I'm zipping along and need to take an unfamiliar exit.

-WaC
Wayne

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 96

Hi Wayne:

quote:

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Originally posted by wac:
Mike,

Thanks a bunch for your very informative review of the HandyGPS. I agree that a Visor

Question: how quick is your moving map update on the Visor? Solus Pro 1.5 seems to have a fixed 1-3 second delay between the data on the GPS and the map update on the Visor. Great for city driving, but I must plan ahead if I'm zipping along and need to take an unfamiliar exit.

-WaC
Wayne

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 38

I have a few questions and a few things to add to the discussion about the HandyGPS. There seems to be several threads discussing this topic but I am posting here mostly because I would like to address Mike (thank you for all the reviews and information on the performance of your HandyGPS) and Wayne (WaC - BTW - very nice fabrication/development of the serial cable - but you should be charging people a lot more than 10 bucks for that fine work!).

I received my HandyGPS three days ago and have been testing it over the weekend:

1) First use was a trip to Wilmington, NC, from Chapel Hill. I had a lot of problems getting a fix on my position. I only obtained a fix for a few minutes over the course of ~ 1.5 hrs. After reading some of the threads here I believe this may have had something to do with where I was holding the unit (my lap, vs. close to the windshield - we have a metal roofed car). Wayne, I am wondering how your GPS315 works in your lap in your Suby (metal roof)? I.E. is it a HandyGPS problem or a universal GPS problem? If it is the HandyGPS not being able to track satellites as well (as stand along units which cost about the same) then I would say the form factor and the cool springboard factor don't make it worthwhile (what good is a GPS if it can't find your position?).

2) Mike, regarding one of your comments (not sure if it was in this thread or not) about battery issues - the batteries in my Visor were not fully charged, and the GPS batteries were new at the start of the trip. I used the unit for about 1.5 hours and then turned off the Visor but left the unit in the springboard slot. At the end of the trip I opened the case and the Visor was on (I could have sworn I turned if off) and it was locked up. A soft reset brought up the Palm Computing screen but would not get past this. I ended up having to perform a full hard reset (my first - I will now by buying my second springboard module - backup) to get the Visor working again. At this point I realized that the batteries were very low. The problem has not occurred again, however, I always remove the GPS when not in use. I would therefore warn others to do the same due to some battery drain issues communicating across the springboard port. I have also observed the battery meter dropping a fair amount with the GPS installed and it coming back up when it is removed (this seems to be a trend for several springboard units).

3) Mike (and other HandyGPS users) how often does the signal go out? I feel that I am still experiencing sub-par performance. Even with the unit out in "open air" if I walk around my parking lot I almost always lose signal when I walk under a small pine tree. I want to use the unit for mapping/route finding on long mountain bike trips so it will need to maintain signal under some tree cover.

4) Going with the mountain bike idea, I would like to get a fairly protective case for the Visor/GPS unit. It seems that the OtterBox option is the way to go as operation through the case is not crucial to me. Does anyone know if the combined unit will fit in the 2000 box? It looks like the inside height will be close as OtterBox specs 1 1/4" and the GPS measure about 1 3/8", but will the box give/flex at all?

5) I am also interested in exporting the recorded route data (to make trail maps, etc.). Has anyone looked into hacking the recorded files HandyGPS saves? It looks like it makes an entry every second or so with what I presume are the lat/long values (I will be trying to look at the format in the next couple weeks and will post any progress/results in this discussion area).

6) With the Solus Pro software, how does one get the maps to upload to your Visor? Are they from the Delorme PC mapping application? I am generally impressed with the maps available for UbiGo, both the organization of them (makes it easy to have the data you want and not have the data you don't want) and the fact that they are free for a year. However, I have experienced (others have posted similar observations) instances where roads disappear, or fade in and out on the map. It should be noted that I have only noticed this for the smallest streets mapped (i.e. interstates are continuous).

Thank you to any and all that respond to this post,
Ryan

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 61

I would like to use my BVD with an external GPS.

I see that there are post on how to make your own cable, but right now I have more time than money (I have too many other projects going on ).

Do external GPS units (like the Magellan GPS 315) allow for software flow control? I understand with the Visor, it doesn't perform hardware flow control. Will I need a cable that tricks a GPS unit by keeping DTS high?

Thanks
Frank

[This message has been edited by wilderf (edited 08-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by wilderf (edited 08-14-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 61

quote:

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Originally posted by mavidal:
Hi:

...
After having used the unit several times more, I find that, if you turn it off, then turn it back on (after 10 or 20 minutes) it will re-acquire the sattelites in what appear to be under a minute. It is only the initial acquisition that takes some time (like after a cold start, or changing batteries.)
...
Mike Vidal

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 24

The closest competitor to the HandyGPS and Geode that I've found in standalone units is this Garmin Emap Deluxe package for $339.95.
http://www.exploregps.com/productde...ID=010-00201-03

It includes: eMap electronic map - America's Version, PC interface cable, 8 MB data card, MetroGuide CD ROM, wrist strap and user's guide

Advantages I'd see for this unit over the Springboards would be:
- 12 hour battery life on two AA batteries
- faster GPS satellite acquisition than either Springboard (I'm basing this on what I've read in each device's specs)
- interstate exit information: food, gas, lodging, etc. (may be in Geode)
- ability to look up address and telephone number information for nearby services and points of interest (may be in Geode)
- ability to attach an external antenna (very important in my eyes)
- car mounts that fit the unit perfectly are currently available
- more reliability than a Springboard?
- no need for a stylus
- they are available NOW and are from a well known/reliable company (Nexian and Geodiscovery are unknown commodities for the most part)

Disadvantages for the standalone:
- price is almost $100 more than the Springboards
- if the Geode ships with maps as detailed as Garmin's Mapsource Metroguide CD, I'll be impressed...but if it does, this could be an advantage to the Geode price wise
- only holds up to 16MB of memory and memory cards are expensive ($80 for an 8MB card compared to $100 for a 32MB MMC card for the Geode.) The question is, how does each format use the memory. As we know comparing the Palm to the Windows CE line, memory isn't always allocated the same way.
- Memory cards can be used in other devices that support the MMC memory standard
- the cool factor of being able to connect a GPS unit to your Visor

I'm sure there are others but these were just off the top of my head.

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 96

Hi Randy:

Sorry for the delay but have been busy.

quote:

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Originally posted by rdanell:
2) Mike, regarding one of your comments (not sure if it was in this thread or not) about battery issues - the batteries in my Visor were not fully charged, and the GPS batteries were new at the start of the trip. I used the unit for about 1.5 hours and then turned off the Visor but left the unit in the springboard slot. At the end of the trip I opened the case and the Visor was on (I could have sworn I turned if off) and it was locked up. A soft reset brought up the Palm Computing screen but would not get past this. I ended up having to perform a full hard reset (my first - I will now by buying my second springboard module - backup) to get the Visor working again. At this point I realized that the batteries were very low. The problem has not occurred again, however, I always remove the GPS when not in use. I would therefore warn others to do the same due to some battery drain issues communicating across the springboard port. I have also observed the battery meter dropping a fair amount with the GPS installed and it coming back up when it is removed (this seems to be a trend for several springboard units).

3) Mike (and other HandyGPS users) how often does the signal go out? I feel that I am still experiencing sub-par performance. Even with the unit out in "open air" if I walk around my parking lot I almost always lose signal when I walk under a small pine tree. I want to use the unit for mapping/route finding on long mountain bike trips so it will need to maintain signal under some tree cover.
Ryan

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Lebanon, NH, USA
Posts: 40

Hi Ryan,

quote:

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Wayne, I am wondering how your GPS315 works in your lap in your Suby (metal roof)? I.E. is it a HandyGPS problem or a universal GPS problem?

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 5

I have the Garmin E-Map. I love the thing. Total cost, with cable and 8mg of memory and city map software was about $350, as far as I can tell (graduation gift.) I also bought the topographic map set for another $60. The topo maps (which nobody has mentioned yet) are great for camping and hiking.

I don't have Handy GPS, so I can't compare. Here's my problems with the E-map:

Finding address and intersections and points of restaurants (post offices, etc . . .) is great, but the directions it gives are straight-line, not turn by turn. So if I try and find an intersection, it will draw a line on the map and give me a directional arrow, distance, and time to arrival at current speed. It's up to me to work around the streets to get there. It's still useful, but not as nice as turn by turn would be.

The map is not updated, apprantly, and that sucks, in plain language. On top of that, the base map doesn't appear to be ugradeable. For example, there's a restaurant down the block from my apartment that closed 2 years ago. It's still on the map, and I can't get rid of it. Same thing with streets that change names.

So I like it a lot, and I use it, but it's not quite as nice as I would like. But for just screwing around, or going camping, its' great. I think it's probably a little better than the handy, from what I understand, but it's probably not worth the extra cash.

Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 38

I contacted Nexian a couple nights ago (sorry for the delay posting) about my blanking and tracking problems with the HandyGPS. First off they were very nice on the phone and a representative picked up the phone immediately when I called (much better than Handspring's original customer service). After first hearing about my problems of the signal coming in and out while standing still in an open area the representative thought that I had a defective unit, but she wanted to talk to someone more technical. She called me back in about 10 minutes (!!), but unfortunately told me something to the effect of, "that is the way HandyGPS operates" and continued about how it is so small and that it will occasionally loose satellite lock due to "conditions." This is when things went down hill. Basically they don't think that my unit is operating incorrectly. I talked to her a lot more about how to get good signal, and the only real suggestions that I got (apart from "try to get more satellites to lock" - uh, how do I do that?) were to let the unit get a lock before I started to move and to hold it face up towards the sky out away from my body. Apparently your body can block the signal (seems to be a major problem if you plan on hiking with the unit and want to plot your route - to find your way back for example).

So, I went and tested the unit some more that night. To my surprise, when I stood still for only a couple minutes I was able to get a good satellite lock and then when I walked with the unit it retained lock for almost all of my trip, even under some trees. A few times I even had 5-7 satellites locked. Apparently once it gets a lock it does work better. During this positive test however, I got a low battery warning and then the unit froze up and locked up my Visor. I tested the batteries with a meter and in my Visor and they were still at least 50% full, so I guess the HandyGPS is sensitive about voltage.

The next day I loaded the unit up with NiMH's (NEXcells) and tried it again on a bike ride. This time once I got it outside it locked onto 3 satellites within a minute or so, and I was on my way. I did have the unit on for about 10 minutes inside, however, it did not find any satellites until I brought it outside. I placed it on the very top of a small backpack and it seemed to still have a lock. When I stopped next I realized that the unit was locked up again. After reviewing the trace I found that it had only been working for about a minute of my trip. After a soft reset the unit would not start again (error says it is not inserted properly or the batteries are too low). Since then I have not been able to get the unit to start at all with NiMH AAA's. I have yet to try alkalines again (just have not gone to buy any). Mike (and other HandyGPS owners), any experience using NiMH batteries in the Handy?

With more time testing the HandyGPS I see two main problems that will probably have me returning the unit even if it locks onto satellites reliably:
1) Battery usage. Apparently the unit needs fresh alkalines to operate for (a whopping) 4 hours. This is highly undesirable as I don't want to have to buy new batteries all the time, it NEEDS to operate on rechargeable cells and this means it needs to operate with slightly less voltage. Also I am unhappy with how the unit drains the NiMH's in the Visor. This drain seems uncalled for and out of the ordinary, especially for a springboard with its OWN batteries. It just makes things, such as a hard reset (which I experienced), all that much more likely.
2) It is not NMEA compliant. This, as most of you know, means that you have to use Nexian's software. After seeing what a GPS can do I would like to be able to navigate a predefined route, with turn info, etc., as other software (such as Solus) allows you to do - this would be very useful and considering other units can do this, I would want my unit to do this. I would also like to be able to save and view my traveled route on a PC, another feature offered by other software but not available to HandyGPS users. Granted these features may be added to UbiGo, but when and how sure can you be that they WILL be added?

So I am considering a separate GPS unit to connect to the Visor (unless there is some significant hardware/firmware upgrade for the Handy). There are several units available for about the same cost as the HandyGPS not to mention they actually WORK WELL. I will be the first to admit how cool it is to plug in a GPS unit and have the whole setup right in your hand, but if you can't reliably get your position and you can't use other more advanced software than the coolness wears off very quickly.

I will most likely wait and see what the Geode looks like (at least in betatest) before I buy something else, but right now I am considering the Garmin eTrex. I have seen it for $114, so even buying separate software still makes it competitive with the HandyGPS, and it is quite small (and can operate in heavy foliage). With that in mind, Wayne, can you comment on that abilities of your serial cable circuit to work with other GPS units. I read (in another thread I believe) that you were testing it with Garmin GPS units. The eTrex serial connection operates at 2.5V I believe so this should be okay for the Visor right? If it should work okay then I would be interested in buying one of your connectors with circuit assuming I get an eTrex, if you want to contact me directly about it my e-mail is [email protected]. For that matter anyone with HandyGPS questions can contact me there or on this forum.

- Ryan

[This message has been edited by rdanell (edited 08-17-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 24

I'd also be interested in a Visor to Garmin cord if it's feasible. Before buying the etrex, I'd take a look at the emap as well. There is a difference in cost/functionality but one of the two should fit most people's needs.