Registered: Dec 1999
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 268

hello all,

so, i'm a mac user, and have been, for quite a while... and while i didn't think it neccessary to chime in on the mac v. windows debate, (as i gave my 2c back when foo started whining about form over function ) i do have an affinity for the jobs machine.

that said, i'm thinking about a laptop, and i don't really have the dough for a powerbook. i'm thinking it would be nice to be more experienced with the windows world (if more annoying), and as i'm learning to design web pages, to have both platforms handy.

that said, i do have a good deal of windows experience, but i've never owned a windows machine (the last non mac i owned was back when we called them ibm compatible, and it was a tandy 086.) anyway, i'm looking for suggestions, and i wasn't sure where to start, so i thought i'd come to you guys.

a couple of questions i've got for you cross-platformers out there...

• can i set up a network at home?
  
• what are my options for file conversion (i.e.: will i be able to read all the same files if i have the same software on each machine)
  
• i'm looking to use it for pretty basic stuff - office, internet, web graphics, and (of course) syncing my visor. (i guess that wasn't really a question, but useful information, yes?)
  

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

You can set up a network at home in several ways. If you have one mac and one PC, I'd just get a software solution like DAVE to get them to see each other. If you have multiple machines with a server, you can set up cross-platform connectivity with NT or AppleshareIP (or, I assume, MacosX)

As for file conversion, yes, if you have the same software on both, you can read the files. Cross-platform files will work just fine too (JPG, TIF, BMP, AVI, etc...)

As for which laptop to buy, I've always been happy with the Compaq Presarios. I've had problems with Toshibas.

And don't buy it at Best Buy!

HTH.

Registered: May 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1429

I disagree!

I disagree homer. For a laptop I would recceomend a dell, or a hp, but the nthe hp's are quite expensive. Go with the dell. I love Best Buy and I have had no problem with them, buy it there. also you can buy it online at dell.com. they offer great prices. I don'tlike compaqs becasue they are unreiable, not all hardware is compatible with them. (seriously I've had a webcam that only didn't work with commpaqs!)

-miradu2000

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 99

I really Dissagree!

Look, I have spent quite a long time using PC Laptops, and I have to tell you that they just arn't worth it. Window puts a half-assed effort into supporting laptops, and they are noware near as seemless as a good PB of iBook. If cost is really a factor, buy a iBook, and save your self from WinDoze's problems. Plus, iBook's price range, PC Books are slow and don't have all the good features that Mac 'books have.

But, if you really want a PC Laptop, buy a Dell or HP.
I recomend finding one with a ethernet port built in for networking, again, most cheap ones don't.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

Christofer's recommendation of an iBook is appropriate if you just want to surf the web and use some basic applications, but the iBook really isn't designed for the serious computer user. It's not very expandable and the screen is somewhat lacking.

As for Best Buy, if you know what you are buying, than buy it there, but be very wary of their tech support. Their computer techs are rarely properly trained and to a lot of guess-work repairs. I know this from both personal experience and from those that have worked with the Best Buy techs.

I, personally, haven't had any problems with our Presarios that we use. That said, Dell is certainly a safe purchase...you can't really go wrong with Dells.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 268

Re: I really Dissagree!

quote:

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Originally posted by chrisfoster
Look, I have spent quite a long time using PC Laptops, and I have to tell you that they just arn't worth it. Window puts a half-assed effort into supporting laptops, and they are noware near as seemless as a good PB of iBook. If cost is really a factor, buy a iBook, and save your self from WinDoze's problems. Plus, iBook's price range, PC Books are slow and don't have all the good features that Mac 'books have.

But, if you really want a PC Laptop, buy a Dell or HP.
I recomend finding one with a ethernet port built in for networking, again, most cheap ones don't.

---

thanks for the replies so far...

i know that i'm going to dislike windows at first (and be annoyed and all that...) but i really want to expand my horizons. truth be told, i'm kind of sick of being a mac snob.

and, homer's right... i've already got my entry-level machine... an imac. i'm ready to learn a little more, and to do a little more.

however, that said, an ibook is certainly still a fifth or sixth option (tangerine, to match my visor ), perhaps with a pc emulator on it... any thoughts homer?

[Edited by matty on 08-23-2000 at 06:53 PM]

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Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 209

I can't add much more the previous comments on model selection but I do have one question...

Was there a compelling reason to favor a PC notebook verus a PC desktop? It wasn't entirely clear in your original message whether portability was a key issue for this purchase.

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: McLean, VA USA
Posts: 216

I'll have to disagree with ChrisFoster in that a notebook IS worth it! As to Windows doing a half-way job of supporting them that also isn't true if you buy one of the major brands. In that respect I recommend a Dell. The Dell Inspiron (sp?) line is a great user/power user line. Especially any of the models with the 15.4" screen! I have a Latitude CPi. The Latitude is considered (by Dell) to be their business solution line and so is a bit more expensive. I have run Win 98, NT 4 and now Win 2K Professional on my Dell without any trouble. They have a very comprehensive support web page for drivers and such. You just type in your serial number and the page automatically will show you all of the appropriate drivers for your laptop! I loaded NT 4 over 98 with no problems and Win 2K over NT 4 with no problems.

As to the network card, with the Dell you can get a 56K/10BaseT combo card for cheap (some of the models may even come with one, I can't remember).

Go to http://www.dell.com and use their configuration pages to configure your system and get a price quote!

Hope this helps,

Craig Hook

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Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 99

I'm just saying that, for the price point Apple's aiming at with the iBook, you're really getting a deal.

The iBook has 3 forms of networking (modem, ethernet, Airport) while many cheap PC notebooks have none. The screen is also good for a 12" screen, I can tell you from experence.(My brother has one). It also has a compartivly fast processor compared to the crippled little things shoehorned into PC 'books.

It's very true that the iBook has limited expansion. But, my brother has used a iBook for months, and , with Airport, he couldn't be more happy.
I have a PowerBook G3, and it's been really good to me. Sure, it was over priced and heavy, but the 14" screen is flawless, and the processor still holds its own, even though it's 2 years old.

Just somethings to think about...

PS: Don't plan to rely to much on VPC. It's time to move on


[Edited by chrisfoster on 08-23-2000 at 11:01 PM]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

---

however, that said, an ibook is certainly still a fifth or sixth option (tangerine, to match my visor ), perhaps with a pc emulator on it... any thoughts homer?

---

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

Before I reply, let me say that I do not hate Mac's. I like them just as much as Windoze. Neither of them are fairly priced, but if I had to choose one of them, it would be a Mac.

quote:

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Originally posted by chrisfoster

The iBook has 3 forms of networking (modem, ethernet, Airport) while many cheap PC notebooks have none.

---

Actually, there are two problem with this statement. First, my very cheap (NEC) notebook has a form of networking. It may not be ideal, but a modem can be used as a form of networking, and the NEC came with a buily-in modem.

quote:

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The screen is also good for a 12" screen, I can tell you from experence.

---

I'm sorry to say, but any screen that is 12 inches is not going to be a good screen, no matter what the resolution. Right now I'm typing on a Compaq Presario 1690. The screen is 14.1 inches, and although it is satificatory, it is no comparison for a 15.4 inch DELL screen, or a 17 inch monitor.

quote:

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It also has a compartivly fast processor compared to the crippled little things shoehorned into PC 'books.

---

What can I say, its true

quote:

---

I have a PowerBook G3, and it's been really good to me.

---

This is what I'm going to reccomend. Every one that I have talked to reccomends these machines, and although I have not personnally had the privaledge to use one of these machines I trust these oppinions.
I know you though the PowerBooks were out of your range, but if you really want to take a step foward in computers, then this is what you need to do.
Your other option to consider would be getting a Desktop computer, running Windoze. These computers can perform as well as laptops, and cost much, much less. The big two disadvantages are that its not portable, and you cannot run any Mac programs.
If you get a PowerBook, then you can get a Windows emulator and run Windows programs to your hearts delight.
Basically what I've accomplished in this message (or so I hope) is that you should save your money and get a good laptop that is going to go the distance.
BEN

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 268

quote:

---

Originally posted by ProjectZero


Was there a compelling reason to favor a PC notebook verus a PC desktop? It wasn't entirely clear in your original message whether portability was a key issue for this purchase.

---

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

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i'm looking to use it for pretty basic stuff - office, internet, web graphics, and (of course) syncing my visor.

---

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 268

quote:

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Originally posted by homer

quote:

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i'm looking to use it for pretty basic stuff - office, internet, web graphics, and (of course) syncing my visor.

---

Well, going back to your original needs, I'd say a PowerBook is overkill for what you are going to be using it for.

The only "iffy" variable is web graphics, as that can mean running some apps like Photoshop or Fireworks that can certainly benefit from faster processors.

Why not a used PC laptop? That may be all you need.

---

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Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

Well, if you don't want to get a Mac laptop, then a Dell is my reccomendation. They have the best customer service(Which you will need with Windows unless your a genuis at these things).
BEN

Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 209

With a used PC laptop, try to get something that's late-model-- within a year. Anything earlier, and you might be paying too much for outdated, slow stuff.

I haven't purchased a used notebook in a year but the usual caveats apply. If I were to make a recommendation, call some computer rental stores-- they usually have some recent notebooks to sell that was part of their rental inventory. Some of the more legit rental places usually keep the equipment in good working order. The value of this? Some of the computer rental shops only carry "business-line" equipment (i.e. a Dell Latitude and not the Inspiron).

But if you wanna go new, I'll echo my vote for Dell. I've purchased, owned/used a Dell Insipron 3700 (Pentium III 450)and 3800 (Celeron 500) and they're really nice for the "just-to-be-able-to-browse-the-web, check my mail, open a Word document and play a DVD" computer. Figuring that MS Office 2000 is a pretty hefty application, anything else should run on OK.

A "nicely" equipped 3800 with a Celeron 500MHz CPU should run you under $2300, maybe under $2200 (96 MB RAM, 10 GB HD, Ethernet PC Card, 56K modem, 14" screen, MS Office). Of course, less features, the lower the cost (64 vs 96 MB RAM, or 4 GB vs 10 GB HD).

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

I've never liked the idea of buying a used laptop. Laptops are like true off-road vehicles. They are intended for rough use, and they have probably received a fair amount of abuse. Replacement components are hard to obtain, and they are more expensive. They are hard enough to work on, that most users should not do so themselves. With all this mind, you might want to consider getting something used that comes with a warranty. Specifically, a refurbished laptop from Dell. You'll save some bucks, and still benefit from Dell's tech support and warranty; and avoid any eBay complications . . .

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 217

You might try a refurbished notebook from the Dell factory Outlet http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfo/default.htm. Looks like they've got some decent deals.

Last edited by Jupe on 03-31-2001 at 09:40 PM

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 217

Oops, looks like that link doesn't work. Just go to http://www.dell.com and select Refurbished Systems.