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Edge: Is there any hope?


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Topic: Edge: Is there any hope?

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

Edge: Is there any hope?

Ok, let's review:

Good
1) Rhinoskin has gracefully and quickly given us several options for cases.
2) Handspring has given us a case.

Middlin'
1) Handspring is working on a power adapter, which is apparently already available in Japan
2) Everybody says they're working on something
3) The Palm marketshare is so huge, and there are so many developers, that eventually stuff will arrive.

Bad
1) ThinkOutside quoted Sept, then Aug, now Oct.
2) Pimlico says that the silent alert is a unique API and therefore not supported.
3) I ain't seen anything that supports the silent alarm except for DB+

Ugly
1) Except for cases, I know of no edge-specific accessories that are out yet in America
2) Edge sales may be low enough that nobody bothers to support it at worst, or at best it gets put way down on the priority list.
3) Handspring doesn't seem to be marketing the Edge very hard, they're pusing the Vphone, the Plat is on their homepage now, etc. Is this a cut & run?

I know I'm being too pessisimistic, but...

Did I just buy a dead-end machine?

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07-31-2001 03:57 PM

kittykatta
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Registered: Jul 2001
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Posts: 1

Considering that it is the equivelent to the sony s320, but cost as much as a color 610 then does the edge stand a chance? id like to see the price get cut in half because thats all it is really worth...

07-31-2001 04:26 PM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:
Originally posted by kittykatta
Considering that it is the equivelent to the sony s320, but cost as much as a color 610 then does the edge stand a chance? id like to see the price get cut in half because thats all it is really worth...

I'm not even talking price-point, although I guess that factors in. Maybe if the price goes down, ownership goes up, and thus there is enough demand for Edge support? I don't want to wait that long, it would take another year for me to get 3rd party accessories!

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07-31-2001 04:28 PM

dwrd
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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 32

I am wondering the same thing you are dietrichbohn. I have been considering possibly cutting my losses rather soon and selling my Edge while I can still get near what I paid for it and possibly getting a Clie.

07-31-2001 04:44 PM

Guest

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Re: Edge: Is there any hope?

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Ok, let's review:

1) Handspring is working on a power adapter, which is apparently already available in Japan

Great wrap-up.....

I decided to not wait for HS to come out with the power adapter. Since my main PC is a laptop I bought the USB Hotsync/Charger cable from Brando for only $18. It charges off the laptop USB port. Yes, there are a plus side and a minus side to this but it works for me. I use that cable the most. I do have the HS travel charger but I bought that mainly because I knew HS would drag their feet about getting out a better solution.

In case you want it, here is the link to Brando product...

http://shop.brando.com.hk/edgesynccharger.php

Also, the cable you referred to that's available in Japan. Here's the
link for that company and the HS page that has it. It would great if we could order direct from this company. Maybe this is something Brando could do. I will drop a line to him to see what he says....

http://www.handspring.co.jp/product...es.asp?did=0000 (the 7th product from the top)

http://www.diatec.co.jp/cps/special/shinsaku-ac8.html

07-31-2001 04:46 PM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

Ok, I forgot about Brando. So there's some hope... But if Brando can make a cable, why can't anybody else? Are the pinouts for the Edge that much different? ARG!

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07-31-2001 04:51 PM

Guest

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quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Ok, I forgot about Brando. So there's some hope... But if Brando can make a cable, why can't anybody else? Are the pinouts for the Edge that much different? ARG!

I don't know that Brando is making the cables. The cable I bought is exactly like a cable available at http://www.diatec.co.jp

Maybe the 2 companies are using the exact same parts to produce their cables. ????

Anyways, Brando must have the pinout config for the Edge because they make a hotsync cable and a hotsync/charger cable. You'd have to have the pinout info to produce these products. And if Brando can get the pinout config why can't a company in the US do it too?.... because there hasn't been enough demand for it yet.

This goes back to 2 previous posts.
1) The price should come down ASAP. I only paid $300 because of the Visor Upgrade Promo. $300 should be the normal price.

2) HS isn't marketing the Edge enough. They need to start pushing the Edge and back off the VDX form factor products. I believe that the size of the Edge is the form factor that HS needs to stay with to stay competitive with Palm and the others. I think the VDX form factor is part of the past. Everybody (almost everybody...) wants a smaller device that still has all the "bells & whistles". So to answer your question "Did I just buy a dead-end machine?"... my answer is no. We just have to wait for this form factor to take off. I think HS will be putting out another unit in the near future that will either be a color Edge or wireless Edge. Either way, the form factor is the main ingredient here. After the next device is out, I think you will see the Edge-specific products hitting the market with a vengeance.

07-31-2001 05:08 PM

dsaroff
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Registered: Jan 2000
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Posts: 52

'fraid I must disagree

quote:
Originally posted by smittyofdhs

2) HS isn't marketing the Edge enough. [b]They need to start pushing the Edge and back off the VDX form factor products. I believe that the size of the Edge is the form factor that HS needs to stay with to stay competitive with Palm and the others. I think the VDX form factor is part of the past. Everybody (almost everybody...) wants a smaller device that still has all the "bells & whistles".

I'm afraid I disagree with you here, smittyofdhs. I LIKE the VDX, VPt form factor and actually prefer it over the Edge. Why?
1. I ALWAYS have a springboard in my VDX. I HATE the idea of the cludgy sled
2. Compatability with my existing peripherals (keyboard, cases, etc.)
3. I like the LARGER screen the VDX has
4. I don't really care that much about size.
5. The flip cover doesn't work with Springboards installed.

If I am going to re-purchase everything, I'd probably go with the Handera 330 (2 expansion slots) or the Clei. If I really wanted a slim form factor, I'd go with the m505 because of its smaller expansion slot.

I think there is a place for both the VDX form factor and some slimmer form factor. Frankly, I feel the edge's limited feature set when compared to competitors (no high res screen, non-standard expansion slot, non-standard connector, non vibrating alarm, a useless microphone [same problem with the VDX, but no sled], cludgy sled) doom its future. Visor does need a competative slim factor Visor, but I feel the Edge is not it.

07-31-2001 06:00 PM

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Re: 'fraid I must disagree

quote:
Originally posted by dsaroff

I'm afraid I disagree with you here, smittyofdhs. I LIKE the VDX, VPt form factor and actually prefer it over the Edge. Why?
1. I ALWAYS have a springboard in my VDX. I HATE the idea of the cludgy sled
2. Compatability with my existing peripherals (keyboard, cases, etc.)
3. I like the LARGER screen the VDX has
4. I don't really care that much about size.
5. The flip cover doesn't work with Springboards installed.

If I am going to re-purchase everything, I'd probably go with the Handera 330 (2 expansion slots) or the Clei. If I really wanted a slim form factor, I'd go with the m505 because of its smaller expansion slot.

I think there is a place for both the VDX form factor and some slimmer form factor. Frankly, I feel the edge's limited feature set when compared to competitors (no high res screen, non-standard expansion slot, non-standard connector, non vibrating alarm, a useless microphone [same problem with the VDX, but no sled], cludgy sled) doom its future. Visor does need a competitive slim factor Visor, but I feel the Edge is not it.

As it stands today, I agree with you that the use of modules with the sled is clunky. But with the invention of Edge-specific modules, this problem goes away.

And yes, if you are migrating from one device to another, you will have a problem with compatibility with keyboards/modules/cases but so did the M50x series. None of the Palm V stuff works with the M50x series pda's. Likewise, with the migration from a Palm III series to a Palm V series. This is a just an issue of upgrading to a new product. To justify the new purchase, you must include these factors. For a new user, it doesn't matter because he/she has nothing to upgrade from. Remember the motivation behind any sales team is to attract new users, not to just make products to keep existing users happy.

The screen size from a Visor DLX to an Edge is not that much different. I had a Visor DLX so I know what the difference is. The difference is only millimeters.

The flipcover is still an issue no matter what. But there are other solutions such as the Alum. case from Handspring. That could be re-worked (once Edge-specific modules come out) so that Edge-specific modules will work with the case on.

I never said that the Edge was the "Ultimate PDA". I just mentioned that the form factor (read as "smaller then VDX") is the way that these companies seem to be going. So with that in mind here are some counter-points to your other statements:

no high res screen - Everyone has a "Claim To Fame", this is Handera's. What's to say the next "Edge" or Sony/Palm/??? won't have this.

non-standard expansion slot - After all the modules that have come out now, I feel that Springboard is one of the standards in PDA expansion. Yes, it can't be used in a camera like CF or SD cards but it wasn't intended to do so. It was intended to add more functionality to a PDA. Can the Palm/Handera/Sony use their "standard expansion slot" to be a GPS, MP3 player, Digital Camera, Bar Scanner, etc..? No they can't (at least now, maybe for some time to come). They have to use a "snap-on" device to do any of the above. So far the CF/SD/MS slots are no more then memory slots.

non-standard connector - ???? What's standard? Every device has a different connector. Palm has their's, HS has their own, Sony, Handera, Kyocera all have different connectors. The Edge is no different then every other device on the market. Each company makes a decision to use a specific connector. AS time goes on, they find a better solution and use that in the new devices (I.e. the Palm III/V connectors are different then the Palm M50x connector).

non vibrating alarm - Well, this is one area that I believe the Edge needs work on. The silent alarm they use is proprietary and uses a custom API to activate. This should be resolved when HS goes to OS 4 and can use the Attention Manager API that is part of OS 4. HS put the Edge out before OS4 was available so they had to come up with a custom solution.

useless microphone - Other then the Handera and Kyocera, which other devices have a useable microphone? The VDX and HS microphone was only intended for use with SB modules. Other then digital dictation, I can't think of any use for the microphone without a SB attached.

Like I said, the "edge" isn't the best device in the world. I never said that it was, I merely pointed out that the new models from all companies are going to be smaller. Just look at the history of Palm. Each device has been a leaner and meaner machine all the way from the Palm Pro to the M50x series.

07-31-2001 06:36 PM

Shel
Member

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 53

quote:
Originally posted by dwrd
I am wondering the same thing you are dietrichbohn. I have been considering possibly cutting my losses rather soon and selling my Edge while I can still get near what I paid for it and possibly getting a Clie.

Whow! I happen to be very happy with my Edge, but a PDA is a personal choice, and what's important to one person isn't the same as what's important to someone else.

What's VERY important to me is, size. I carry my Visor with me everywhere, so if it's even somewhat larger (i.e. the Clie) it becomes a hassle, for ME. The Visor Edge, especially with it's metal flip cover (which allows me to carry it without any additional covers or cases) makes it an excellent choice for me.

So far, after a month, it's been totally stable, with all of my software and hacks loaded.

As far as the sled, I only use the backup module at the moment, so it's currently a non-issue. If I decide to purchase, say, the Sounds Good module, the sled effectively makes *half* of the Edge the same size as the Platinum, so while I'm using the Sounds Good, it would be almost as large/heavy as the standard Visor, but still smaller. When I no longer am using the Springboard, I again have the sleek profile of the Edge.

Again, the Edge works for ME. Doesn't mean it's for everyone.

I also didn't want/need color... I'd rather have long battery life for trips then color.

The Edge charges amazingly fast, and the battery seems to last forever! I use it a LOT, and I'll easily go five, six days and still have plenty of charge left.

07-31-2001 06:41 PM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

Don't get me wrong, I love the edge and am not concerned about the sled & form factor. What I'm concerned about is that I won't be able to use peripheral stuff. At least w/ my old plat I could use a kb, phone cable, etc.

Just got this from a developer:

quote:
We do not have an exact date of release, it mostly depends on the ability to find the cables. We are hoping that Handspring makes them widely available for us shortly.

They also said October. Maybe Handspring is the holdup here? EEK!

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07-31-2001 06:46 PM

Toby
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Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by smittyofdhs
Anyways, Brando must have the pinout config for the Edge because they make a hotsync cable and a hotsync/charger cable. You'd have to have the pinout info to produce these products. And if Brando can get the pinout config why can't a company in the US do it too?....

Anybody with a web browser can get the pinout and technical specs of the Edge. And WRT your later post, HandEra doesn't have their own connector. They use a PalmIII compatible serial connector. This was a double-edged sword which both attracted and repelled me from the 330. On one hand, the Palm III connector has peripherals out the wazoo available for it, but ultimately OTOH, you're limited to 115Kbps max. and I really didn't want slower syncs. Had their CF network card support been slightly quicker to market, and (more importantly) had they stuck the 330 in an aluminum or solid black case (instead of a chrome faceplate on black backplate), I'd probably be a 330 owner right now.

07-31-2001 09:16 PM

bejnarowiczd
Member

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Guildford, UK
Posts: 14

what we need is an adpater

After reading this tread, I did a bit of research. All of the pin outs for the Edge (12 pins), the Prism (8) and the VDX are on the HS website, under the developers section.

We need a Brando or Belkin to develop a small profile adapter for the Edge that plugs us into ANYTHING we want!. I know there are companies in the US now that are making such a thing for the serials on the Palmpilots / Pilots (read it in Gadgeteer). Why no the Edge?

Anyone have any ideas? Here's my pinout idea between the Edge and Prism. Note - they have the same TTL and VCC (charging voltages).

Dan, UK

Now where it I leave my moulding die set...