Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 103

Has anyone heard any new news on the CF adapter springboard?

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 219

Good news!

TTRMKR is developing a CF adapter that uses FAT file system & has applied for patent. He is thinking about developing a smart media card adapter, too. He doesn't have any time line on his site, though.

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Taki
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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

Patent? Gimme a break

You gotta be kidding - a patent for a Springboard to CF adapter? That's ridiculous! For memory cards all it takes is a PCMCIA to CF adapter with three white wires (modifications to the circuit board). The software to make the PalmOS use a CF card is the hard part, but I would think that since TRG has already done it in the TRG Pro, that would establish "prior art".

I wonder who I have to talk to to file opposition to a patent application?

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 219

NOT SO FAST!

Dave,

I didn't explain it enough, but what TTRMKR is trying to patent includes his software. Also it is not an adapter for PCMCIA card...it's for extra memory. I don't know if his system is identical to TRGPro's, but I doubt it. There's more than one way to skin a cat....

I don't think it's ridiculous to patent his idea. He deserves some credit. Also his intention is not making money. Rather, he is trying to protect interests of many Japanese Visor owners who provided him with capital to develop CF adapter Spring board(supporters of USMB-User-Made SpringBoard). It would be unfair for those people (and TTRMKR) if a big company just copies his product. FYI-I have no personal interest in his invention. I didn't send money

[Edited by Taki on 08-22-2000 at 02:21 AM]

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Taki
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Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca
Posts: 302

I agree with Taki.

(Hope this is not the start of another patent thread)

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Bret Snyder<BR>If you don't know where you're going,<BR>You'll probably end up somewhere else.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: NOT SO FAST!

quote:

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Originally posted by Taki
Dave,

I didn't explain it enough, but what TTRMKR is trying to patent includes his software.

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 219

Bret, thanks for your support! I don't want to start the whole "patent" argument, either. I shouldn't have used the p-word. This would be my last post regarding this subject.

Toby, Now I'm not sure "patent" is the right word. It's called "jitsuyou sinan touroku"--if I translate literary, "utility new idea(my dictionary says 'utility model') registration"--I have to do some research on Japanese law to figure out exactly what it is, but it sounds more like cross between patent & copywright protection.

__________________
Taki
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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Taki: Yeah, it does sound like a cross, but it leans more towards what would be comparable to patent over here. Laws are just a bit different obviously. Here, patents are for new ideas or inventions, whereas copyright is more for literary works or recorded formats (books, movies, computer code, etc.).

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

Re: NOT SO FAST!

quote:

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Originally posted by Taki
I didn't explain it enough, but what TTRMKR is trying to patent includes his software. Also it is not an adapter for PCMCIA card...it's for extra memory. I don't know if his system is identical to TRGPro's, but I doubt it. There's more than one way to skin a cat....

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Taki, thanks for clarifying. I appologize for sounding so irate. That was not my intent (nor was it my intent to re-kindle the great screen protector patent debate as some feared). My concern has to do with my own Springboard to CF adapter design that I'm working on. My design is radically simpler than the one TTRMKR has posted on his web site. In fact, it's simple enough that anyone who can handle a soldering iron could build one in a half hour for under $20. My intention has been to release the hardware design (and basic driver software) into the public domain. But if someone patents the idea first, I can't legally do that and the Visor community loses out.

Since I know nothing about the Japanese patent system, I really can speculate on how that might affect my plans. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Who knows when I'll even find the time to finish this ATA driver, so I guess I may be jumping the gun with my concerns

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 219

Thanks

Dave, now I understand where you're coming from. Thanks & good luck on your project!

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Taki
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Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

Re: Re: NOT SO FAST!

quote:

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...My intention has been to release the hardware design (and basic driver software) into the public domain. But if someone patents the idea first, I can't legally do that and the Visor community loses out.[/B]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

Re: Re: Re: NOT SO FAST!

quote:

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Originally posted by MPM
If you don't sell anything are you violating a patent just by sharing your knowledge? I think the answer is no.

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Reading, MA
Posts: 28

Discussing how to improve on a patented idea is not a violation of law. In fact, you could even get a
patent on the improvement (which is public record among other things), but wouldn't be able to manufacture it until you reached an agreement with the orginal patent holder.

Of course, if your idea is a huge improvement, the usual
solution is to cross license your patents (if yours does infringe on his).

(On another note, you CAN patent software)

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Great Lakes, MI
Posts: 6

Correct me if I am wrong but from what I understand, the dragonball EZ CPU uses 24bits external address bus only capable of addressing 16MB of memory. Even CF on springboard wont change that fact. Maybe TTRMKR has also patent his way of multiplexing addresses to increase the the memory to > 16MB (hopefully).

James

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

You are correct about the 24 bit address bus. However it's not a problem for CF cards since they only have a 10 bit address bus. How do they get 64MB+ on a 10 bit bus? Well, there's actually a "multiplexer" inside the card that makes it look like an IDE disk drive. All data transfer into and out of the card actually happens through a single 16-bit register.

The good news is that makes the addressable size of a CF card virtually unlimited (many gigabytes). The bad news is that it makes the software interface a bit tricky. You can't address the card as linear memory so you have to cache in onboard RAM and patch a whole bunch of system calls to trick the memory manager into looking in the cache.

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Great Lakes, MI
Posts: 6

thank you for the info. I am interested in reading more about it. I appreciate if you could also give me some pointers/links on how the multiplexing and mapping works (software/hardware).

James

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 81

As far as the Japanese patent goes, I'm almost positive that it doesn't cover a similar product in the U.S., unless they've filed for a patent over here as well. I took a business class a couple of years ago and that is what we learned, unless they've changed things in the past couple of years, which I doubt (moving at the speed of government!!!)

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

quote:

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Originally posted by xoxo
thank you for the info. I am interested in reading more about it. I appreciate if you could also give me some pointers/links on how the multiplexing and mapping works (software/hardware).

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 290

quote:

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Originally posted by xoxo
Correct me if I am wrong but from what I understand, the dragonball EZ CPU uses 24bits external address bus only capable of addressing 16MB of memory.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Great Lakes, MI
Posts: 6

quote:

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Originally posted by dkessler

The best way to get the technical details is to download the CF specification from the Compact Flash Association website. The spec is free, but you'll have to fill out a registration form to download it. The information it contains is highly technical and not that easy to digest, but it does cover everything including the electrical interface, software interface, metaformat, and ATA command set.

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