Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

IANAL, but I was wondering about whether this patent has any implications for the "work-through" cases, like the waterproof cases that envelope the Visor but still allow one to write on the screen?

As for the comparison, I only know of a few products. If you know of others, please email me the websites for them.

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James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Rolando:

My own concern is not with Mr. Warman's personality, which I consider irrelevant, but his poor customer service (i.e. not providing information about his product, either on his website or when asked), and his extortion of any screen protector seller who can't afford to defend himself or herself in court. If we agree that his patent was granted wrongly, then we have a moral obligation not to support him when he exploits it.

You mentioned that Mr. Warman was "judged" before he even posted on VC. In one of the earliest posts in this thread, I facetiously commented on the excessive number of times his site mention his patent. At the time, I thought it was just silly, and had no idea that whoever was behind the product was serious. A few posts later, someone pointed to some newsgroup where Warman brought up the same issues he brought up here. So Warman wasn't prejudged. He has only himself to blame. Save your sympathy for those who've been harassed by his attorney.

I'm usually pretty even-keeled in most debates, but I find this whole issue morally despicable (if legally acceptable), and I believe that Visor Central should avoid any complicity in extortion.

[This message has been edited by Gameboy70 (edited 05-31-2000).]

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Moved to Clie Land
Posts: 331

That settles it...I was cheesed enough when I paid $2 per sheet for a WR, now this.

I was toying with the idea of producing my own screen protectors and it looks like the perfect solution to this whole debate is to just roll your own.

This is a piece of plastic...seems to me that watches, clocks and many other glass/electronic parts came with static cling protectors on them since way back in the 70's...just because someone "invented" a different application doesn't mean they should profit from it...Must have been a heck of a revelation to patent existing technology...I'd be soooo proud...

Here's a thought...why don't you invent a screen that doesn't need a protector?

My opinion is that I'll join the boycott and the discussion should be allowed to continue...



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"It's NOT a tumor!"

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Mr. Warman mentioned the Post-It and the paper clip as examples of "obvious" inventions that we're patented. We are supposed to infer from these that "his" screen protectors are in the same league.

Actually, the a lot more development went into the Post-It than just "glue on paper." 3M's chemical engineers were trying to develop a new adhesive, which turned out to be much weaker that they had hoped. The adhesive was nearly abandoned in the division, until one person saw how it could be applied: you could attach one piece of paper to another without ripping it when removed. This illustrates two important points: (a) it was not obvious, and (b) 3M actually developed the adhesive. They didn't just take Elmer's Glue and sell it to a different market.

The paper clip was an idea that had been around for decades, and many people tried and failed to design a jig that would allow the mass production of paper clips. Like the light bulb, the general concept existed but required someone to come along and make it practical. It was the jig to make the paper clip, not the paper clip itself, that made it a unique invention.

Mr. Warman's genius was to hire an attorney to pursue a patent on an idea that was so obvious that no one before him would have thought of establishing prior art, even though we all have seen transparent adhesive coverings on consumer electronics since the late seventies. He may be a clever entrepreneur, but he's no inventor -- well, maybe he is. I haven't seen his bass fishing patent.

Registered: May 2000
Location: Flowood, MS USA
Posts: 4

Hey SCM, just to let you know that your "endorsement" of Mr. Warman's product is still on his site, he even spell your name wrong "Stephen Mtichell"!!! Did he do that intentionally to avoid the unauthorize use of the real Stephen Mitchell? Also, there's another "comment"-from an unknown source- on Mr. Warman's site that makes readers think that his product has the support of people of the VisorCentral community.

Talk about double standards, Mr. Warman is high and righteous persecuting people using his "art" without his permission (or should I say without his cut$$). Yet, Mr. Warman has no trouble using other people's good names without their permission or endorsement.

That's pretty crappy.

KAY

p.s: Mr. Warman, please spent more time with the design of your website, the mis-alignments, and the uneven indentions...very unprofessional.


[This message has been edited by Aaron425 (edited 06-01-2000).]

Registered: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 10

Mr Warman posted my email to him letting him know that I started this thread on VisorCentral. He did not ask permission. I asked him to remove it yesterday. So far he has removed my name and place of employment. I hope he removes the rest. I have asked him this not because I have changed my mind about his product, but because I consider his use of my email message, name and place of employment, intended as feedback to him, as a marketting tool without consent.

With respect to this thread, I have said before that I have found its twists and turns to be quite remarkable. I have been disturbed by all of Mr. Warman's posts. I have been bothered by the tone of some of the member's posts as well. Mean-spiritedness is not unique to the inventor. However, other posts have been quite thoughtful and thought-provoking. Others still have been really a lot of fun.

Considering the product; despite all else, I actually remain very pleased. I am still using the first protector that I applied. It is still completely transparent without marks or indentations. It still is fully adherent (?spelling) and it still seems to improve my Graffiti recognition. I acknowledge that there may be products of equal and maybe even better quality, including many homemade adaptations (but I personally haven't found one yet and I definitely do not think WR's fit into that category).

With respect to Mr. Warman. I am disappointed. He has a good product and I think he would clearly be much more successful taking a different approach. I wish he could see clear (no pun intended) to take an aggressive free-market approach and compete head-to-head with the alternative products. With the quality of what he has to offer, I think he could be much more successful. His protectionist, aversarial legalistic approach is terribly counterproductive. I suspect that if he spent as much time with marketting and e-commerce experts as he spends with his patent attorey, he'd be much better off (both happier and a lot richer!). My grandmother once told me, you can catch a lot more something-or-another with honey that with vinegar (I don't remember what it was I was supposed to be catching). But I think this wisdom would certainly apply to Mr. Warmen and would serve him well.

Finally, to whoever is managing this thread, could you please turn off email notification to me of additional posts. My inbox runneth over and I think this horse is done beat! But it has been interesting.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

quote:

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Originally posted by mgessour:
My grandmother once told me, you can catch a lot more something-or-another with honey that with vinegar (I don't remember what it was I was supposed to be catching).

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Flies or Bees... take your pick



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MarkEagle - Ice is nice!

Registered: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 10

I thought that was it, but why would I want to catch either? Once again the discussion takes another turn!

Registered: Apr 2000
Location:
Posts: 266

The official boycott has begun......

www.girlandgeek.com/boycott

There is also a discussion board to give VC some relief of a horse I intend to keep beating.....

Ryan

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 33

I've been watching this thread develop for quite some time now and I have finally come to a conclusion. I think everyone involved should meet and fight Jackie Chan style like in the movies. j/k, I do understand the depth of the issue, and I honestly think the inventor had problems in his childhood, but I say forget about it. BTW: the inventor's tone reminds me of the doctor in Bone Collector, so be careful .

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 268

ryan:

just to help you out a little...

you have a misplaced comma after "named" in your intro...

the table has two topics: products not covered by the boycott and products not covered by the boycott [sic].

the question leading to the email address is in the wrong tense... it should read "know of any..."

the reason i'm picking nits is that i feel war-man is so convoluted and has such incredibly poor grammar (and spelling, manners, and c.), that to follow in those footsteps would be unwise.

i fully support the boycott, by the by. good luck in whatever legal forum to which this may lead.




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matty
i like bananas.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Posts: 146

matty,

You might be careful about correcting people's grammar when you don't ever use capital letters in your sentances. That kind of weakens your stance, if you know what I mean...

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 222

"sentences" not "sentances".

I think your stance has been weakened also, hawkeye

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 251

quote:

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Originally posted by Nhatman:
"sentences" not "sentances".

I think your stance has been weakened also, hawkeye

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Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 151

The three posts above mine are the best/funniest posts I have read on this discussion board. I love the slammer becoming the slammee.

Registered: May 2000
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Posts: 38

As I look back at how many posts we've accumulated of this thread, I'm finding myself a little concerned that we are defeating our very purpose. Mr. Warman has a small company that is rather unknown. When the average PDA user thinks of screen protectors, they are not thinking of VSPS because most have never heard of it. But we are providing Mr. Warman with a whole lot of free advertising. Yeah, it may be "negative", but, in advertising, there is no such thing as "negative" advertising. It is all about name recognition. For the next few months, many casual readers of this thread may not consider buying this product, but how quickly will they forget the theme of the thread and only remember the product's name? We see all the time in politics how short the public's memory is! Could that partly explain why Mr. Warman appears every time the thread appears to be dying out?

Just a thought....

Stephen

PS: Since I am the guy who misspelled his own name in his first posts, I have to ask that we not get to critical of the grammar and spelling in this thread!!

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 268

in my own defense:

one might note that i rarely, if ever, use capital letters in my posts. nor do i -- though there are very few ways by which one would know this -- use them [capital letters] in emails. this is what is known as a stylistic (perhaps aesthetic is a better term) choice. writing via electronic means requires a different style -- for some, that takes shape in the form of a smilie or an acronym. i don't use capital letters.

in any case, my grammar (which is better than most, if one disregards the capital thing, which we now know to be a choice, rather than ignorance) is not the issue at hand. i'm not trying to sell anything; in fact, i don't care if my point gets made. messrs. clayton and warman both have issues they want to make available to the populace, and i feel those issues would be better received if properly stated.

again, i'm only picking nits whence they need to be picked.

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matty
i like bananas.

[This message has been edited by matty (edited 06-01-2000).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 251

SCM,

I agree, except for the fact that "VSPS" isn't exactly easy to remember. In fact, just typing this, I had to hit the back button to see what it was called.

Registered: May 2000
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Posts: 38

Rolando,

You are probably right about the name being difficult to remember. But that also helps Warman in that when someone later runs across his product, they may only remember "I've heard of that before, somewhere. Maybe I should try it." But, again, you are probably right.

Steve

[This message has been edited by SCM (edited 06-01-2000).]

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Posts: 146

Well, I guess I don't type out the word sentence enough, huh? I guess I should be more careful of my own grammar if I'm being critical of other's. Point taken.

Anyway, regarding the "free advertising" for Mr. Warman, I wouldn't say it's 100% helpful to him. Sure, it helps with name recognition, but it also shows that he is not one to be trusted, IMHO. He's to concerned about himself to take time to consider if he's being fair to others.

Also, there's a saying, although I don't remember how exactly it goes, but the point is that 1 unhappy customer will influence more people than 50 satisfied customers. Why? Because an unhappy customer is upset about his experience and wants to vent and also to warn others of his experience. However, a satisfied customer got what he expected, nothing more, and therefore doesn't need to tell anyone.

A similar idea holds true here. Even though Mr. Warman may provide a decent, or even excellent product, his overall business practice and his attitude towards competitors has annoyed/angered enough of us that we feel the need to warn others about him.

I feel it's important for other PDA users to know who they are buying from if they want screen protectors from VSPS. If they feel like buying from him, fine, but at least they know his attitude.

Also, regarding the name VSPS, when I first saw it on his site, it was in some cursive or script-like font and I thought it said USPS, you know, as in United States Parcel Service. He's not doing a very good job of making name recognition for his company very easy to remember. Write Rights; now there's something you remember!

BTW, it looks like Bill's hiding again. Perhaps he can't address our concerns.