Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 110

Okay everybody, chill out. A few points on site policy, Palm deals, and Visor.

1. I'm sure Handsprung and Marcus were doing what they thought best in moving the threads to off-topic. This is their site, not ours. And deals on a Palm device aren't really about the Visor, even though price is an obvious discriminating factor to those of us still deciding which way to go.

But, Marcus, that said, Solo is right - a thread was deleted (the one that was titled "Goto the off topic board for some excellent prices on new Palms (V, IIIe, IIIx)"). I don't think the conversation that Solo, I and others were having in that thread contained anything "extremely improper or illegal," although I suspect Solo's tactic in getting the subject "reinstated" on the General Visor board might have rankled you a bit. If it DID contain something extremely improper or illegal, please let me know privately. You have my e-mail address.

2. The deals on Palm devices from ValueAmerica really are outstanding - for us lucky souls who are new to VA and thus get the $120 discount - and a lot of us trying to make the trade off really did need to know about them. Obviously, for many of us this price deal made all the difference in the world. VisorCentral is providing all of us a valuable service by allowing a thread discussing this to go forward.

When I say all of us, I mean even those still buying a Visor. Nobody at Handspring could read these threads and not be concerned that they will lose more sales, and that concern is a good, not bad, thing to generate. Competition is a fabulous and all too rare creature in the PDA world.

3. Now, my thoughts on Visor, which I have not posted before. I was not really planning to get a Visor soon, although I knew I would eventually upgrade from my Palm Pilot Pro with 2MB upgrade. I want the better screen, and selling my PPPro with the upgrade will come close to financing a new unit. I was leaning toward a IIIe, since Palm Computing has a long, fairly solid record of support and service. (I know, I know - notice that I said "fairly solid," not perfect.) But I was also thinking about Visor, figuring that when you technical folks out there got them in your hands, you could let me know whether the product matched up to the hype.

As for Handspring's supposed "problems" - well, I don't know. It does seem that folks are getting a little antsy. The original statement was that it would ship 4-6 weeks from September 14. I don't know about anyone else, but I read that to be sort of like "under $400," which everyone knows means $399.99. In other words, it would ship in six weeks. Contradictory statements from CSRs should have been cleared up, but well, they are just minimum wage workers in a shed somewhere, not Handspring engineers.

But Jeff Hawkins upped the ante when he said at the conference in early October that it would ship in two weeks. I have no reason to think the press misquoted him, and he said it, not some minimum wage CSR. So he should stick to it. I think that means he's got another two days. Hold your fire until then.

As for the Handspring on-line store problems - well, so what? If you placed your order, then fine. You don't need the on-line store. But the order processing situation is pretty appalling. (I'm no businessman, but I have decades of experience in being a customer!) It does seem like it shouldn't be this uncoordinated. There should be a reliable way to check status.

This makes me feel pretty good about some advice I gave to newbies earlier this month: buy from Palm. Why? They've been doing this for three and a half years. Handspring hasn't sold a single unit yet.

Now that said, I am still thinking about going with a Visor. I took advantage of Generic99's postings and grabbed a IIIx from VA for $142 delivered. And no, Handsprung, it wasn't that I "couldn't keep my pants on." That comment seemed a but unfair. It doesn't seem irrational to spend $142 on a high-quality device that you can easily resell for almost a hundred bucks more. There isn't much risk to that move, and it lets me keep my options open. This way I can keep the IIIx, or resell it, with my upgraded Pro, to finance the purchase of a Visor.

If they ever show up. Would you nice technical folks out there let me know when they do? When it comes to computer stuff, I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

Thanks for your time.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 21

Well said, alanf.

I was among the most vocal and critical posters when the Handspring's product launch problems became known. Although I received some encouraging replies, I received a great many more "just shut up and order it," "real men don't need order confirmation numbers," "quitcher whining" type replies. I thought at the time that this kind of unquestioning loyalty was pretty weird...particularly in the case of a product that virtually no VisorCentral member has actually seen or used.

I see the same sort of uncritical attitude now, when some Off-Topic "turncoats" are trying to make a reasoned, balanced analysis of the relative costs and benefits of Palms and Visors. Like it or not, price is an important factor in that kind of analysis. The Visor may turn out to be the most wonderful personal gadget ever created. It may turn out to be hopelessly flawed. It may turn out to be mediocre. The springboard technology may turn out to be a must-have...or it may go the way of so many other add-on, plug-in technologies that never realized their full potential. (Can anyone suggest a device to use the "subcode out" port on the back of my old CD player? Didn't think so.) But no matter what, we owe it to ourselves to look at the Visor (and its creators) critically, like any other product (and any other company).

Maybe the problems with paper order-taking are a little more "real" when it turns out people literally can't cancel their orders. Maybe the need for a startup company to cultivate and nurture the goodwill of its early customers is a little clearer when people start jumping ship. If Handspring expects us to resist exceptional deals on competing products, it needs to be a little more responsive to our concerns. How about a "script" furnished to all CSRs, so that these people don't improvise answers over the phone? How about a definitive shipping statement on the website, so people don't have to rely on the CSRs for that information at all? How about getting the on-line store running, so that even people who have already ordered can check on their orders, cancel them, change them, whatever?

You can only coast so far on the track record of your principals and the understandable enthusiasm for a new gadget. If Handspring wants to stop the flow of price-motivated "defectors" (I confess I'm one of them), it needs to take action. If that's "Off-Topic"...so be it.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

The topics that were moved to Off-Topic were moved because the conversation was getting off of the comparing Palm to Visor (which is fine) and getting to be "Where can I buy a cheap Palm?" This is a Visor site, but I try to be objective and discuss all Palm OS news (thus the news items about Nokia and TRG). I personally have a Palm III and was pining for a Palm V until I saw what the Visor can do.

Purchasing a organizer is a very personal choice. Sometimes you cannot wait for The Next Big Thing. A few months ago, I thought that my P3 had gone out on me. I knew that I couldn't wait for a new model to come out. Fortunately, I was able to get it working again.

For those of you who cancelled your orders and purchased a P3x or a PV, enjoy your organizer -- a Palm OS device is one of the best purchases anyone can make, whether it is by 3COM, Handspring, TRG, or whoever.

James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 179

alanf - I deleted that topic after moving it because it no longer "fit" seeing as how it was now in the "Off Topic" forum. This is rarely done along with instances of identical posts. There were only a few posts in that topic that were a "repeat" of other posts along these same lines so the decision was made. I take full reponsbility for deleting the topic. In most cases we make a good choice and move a topic because of its subject matter. We are in no way trying to hide any posts but rather keep things organized. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

On a side note I hope everyone realizes that the only reason Palm lowered their prices was two fold.

1. Handspring
2. Palm Vx.

Yes, prices would have come down with just the release of the Vx but I doubt as much as they have. Also, the Palm IIIx is not Palms top of the line machine. So to compare it to the Visor Deluxe isn't fair because they aren't comparable models. Form factor alone doesn't matter. Look at regular computers, you have to look at features. Now, comparing it to the regular Visor makes more sense. In that battle the Palm IIIx wins on memory and the Visor wins on having the Springboard. You can say that you might not use the springboard but you could also say that some won't use the extra memory. I know people with IIIe's that still have plenty of room.

I think it is great that these prices have dropped and hope everyone is happy with the choice they have made. I know I'll be happy with my Visor. I choose to stick with my order because I have yet to be let down by Handspring. They have not failed to come through on any promises being that it is only October 13th.

One last thing. Visorcentral is happy to have all of you here discussing PalmOS related subjects and it makes it an easy place for any user to find out the latest scoop.

Thanks,
Scott Cropper
[email protected]

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Ingleside, Tx
Posts: 68

Actually, Palm has not serioulsy lowered the prices on any product they have.

The DRASTIC reduction in prices is coming from a deal you can get through Value America. Not only do they list their prices about a hundred bucks cheaper than most others, they also have a killer deal with their on in-house rebate.

Look at it.

BTW, I talked to VA today and yes, they are getting the Vx shortly and yes, they will sell it for ~$400. If you sign up with their Visa card deal, you will get your Vx for ~$300...if it happens in two weeks, deduct $20. Very cool.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 151

Solo:

If the VA deal happens with the Vx, you can believe that I will purchase one. And I'll owe you and Generic a cold frosty one for the effort in researching this. Thanks guys!

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 9

Well, I bailed as well (ordered a Visor on 9/14) and went with a Palm V from VA. I called about the Vx and they said they wouldn't get it for at least another month. This'll be my first PDA, so I'm willing to cut my teeth on less RAM and wait to see what V/Vx competition HandSpring brings out next year (or the next...).

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 179

www.ecost.com has the palmvx for $399 right now, shipping now, some have already gotten theirs according to www.palminfocenter.com