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mzucker
Member

Registered: May 2001
Location:
Posts: 3

I am a physician looking for a way to add more usable memory to my Platinum. I was looking at the flash memory (16mb) extension, but then the CF adapters caught my eye.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the CF cards themselves, the adapters, the software, etc... and which one of these makes it seem the closest to a true addition of operational RAM?

Thanks for all your replies.

05-23-2001 05:15 AM

bkbk
Member

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

Jeez, another "new" request.
Doc, this subj. has been exhaustively covered all over the site in the last few mo. Prac. every Visor user has a similar interest.
Dave Kessler of Kopsis (search on these keywords), I believe, recently summarized most of the salient posts.
Good readin'

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05-23-2001 06:02 AM

alanf
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 110

Ease up

mzucker and I have both asked this question today. I think it's a salient question that has not been well summarized anywhere that I know of. Although I have seen plenty of info/postings here and on PDABuzz and PalmInfocenter, none that I know of have really tried to compare the options. (Hey Marcus, maybe a head-to-head comparison of the alternatives would be a good subject for an article? The thorough MatchBook Drive review is what got me thinking about this subject, but it didn't really compare the options - InnoPocket, MemPlug, the flash modules, etc.)

Kopsis Engineering is focused on CF adapters, since their product (FAFileMover, $10 last I saw) works only on CF adapters. So their opinions on, say, the MemPlug or Flash modules might not be as informative. Wouldn't it be nice to hear from somebody who has tried them all?

And bkbk, instead of publicly dissing mzucker and I (and effectively killing off any response to our question), perhaps you could, um . . . . not?

05-23-2001 02:45 PM

dorelse
Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 248

Depending on how desperate for this upgrade you are, you can do an after market upgrade to 16mb of INTERNAL usuable memory.

This company does it for the prices listed.

http://www.stnecorp.com/

A couple of caveats:

** It voids the warranty
** They've had problems with Platinums & Edge's...my guess is its due to the new Dragonball processor/board.

So if you have a Visor Solo/Deluxe/Prism...you can do it.

Its an option.

05-23-2001 03:02 PM

akur
Member

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 293

I have memplug and Innopocket CF adapter. I like both of them.
I think CF is good for large data because the transfer rate is faster than smartmedia. I like memplug because Gmovie can play directly from the smart media, but CF now starting to catch up. Memplug and CF solution have Cspotrun.

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05-23-2001 04:00 PM

alanf
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 110

akur and dorelse - thanks. A few questions:

1) When you say that a CF solution (an improved FAFileMover, I assume?) now has CSpotRun, do you mean that it has "automove" ability (ie, the process of moving the doc file to RAM is invisible to the user)?

2) Whether CF or Memplug, how much RAM do I need to leave open on my Prism? For example, I'd like to leave my AvantGo and SplashPhoto databases on the CF/SM card. But they're each about 3mb - would I have to move the entire db to main RAM, or is there a way to pick and choose what web pages/photos need to go to main RAM? And if the database is larger than free RAM, what happens?

3) Are any of the CF or MemPlug modules flush? I've heard that some if not all leave the card sticking out of the module - and my Prism case is snug as it is!

4) Does anyone know what the latest is on restore-after-hard-crash from CF? I heard that somebody was coming out with a CF adapter with on-board flash to make this possible, but don't know the status.

dorelse - I thought about the STNE upgrade, but I'm a bit too wimpy for that. Besides, what if 16mb STILL isn't enough?

05-23-2001 04:27 PM

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Registered: Not Yet
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quote:
Originally posted by dorelse
So if you have a Visor Solo/Deluxe/Prism...you can do it.

Sorry but the Deluxe is not able to upgrade to 16, nor is the Solo. The processor they have doesn't recognize anything more then 8mb. The Solo can upgrade to 8mb (from 2mb) but the Deluxe is stuck with 8mb. Read the opening paragraph at STNE's site, "Visor to 8mb".

05-23-2001 04:34 PM

creole
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 347

quote:
Originally posted by alanf
dorelse - I thought about the STNE upgrade, but I'm a bit too wimpy for that. Besides, what if 16mb STILL isn't enough?

Then it owuld be time to ge a laptop!

05-23-2001 04:48 PM

creole
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 347

quote:
Originally posted by alanf
dorelse - I thought about the STNE upgrade, but I'm a bit too wimpy for that. Besides, what if 16mb STILL isn't enough?

Then it would be time to ge a laptop!

05-23-2001 04:48 PM

creole
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 347

quote:
Originally posted by alanf
dorelse - I thought about the STNE upgrade, but I'm a bit too wimpy for that. Besides, what if 16mb STILL isn't enough?

Then it would be time to get a laptop

05-23-2001 04:49 PM

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quote:
Originally posted by alanf
dorelse - I thought about the STNE upgrade, but I'm a bit too wimpy for that. Besides, what if 16mb STILL isn't enough?

Wow, what do you plan to put on it? For a Palm OS, 16 megs is a lot of memory. Even with 8 you can add spell checkers, dictionaries, and other huge reference material and still have enough room for a bunch of Avantgo channels.

I have a 8 meg flash module, that I don't even use yet because I can't even fill up the 8 megs the deluxe came with. And I have about 20 avantgo channels, blazer, JP mobile PQA browser (and a bunch of pqa's), a dozen different games, Docs to Go, EyeModule2 with a bunch of photos, fireviewer, and more.... and I still have 38&-49% of available memory.

I would love to have a 16 megs upgrade for my Visor Deluxe (if it was possible) but I know I would never use it.

05-23-2001 04:59 PM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:
Originally posted by alanf
akur and dorelse - thanks. A few questions:
1) When you say that a CF solution (an improved FAFileMover, I assume?) now has CSpotRun, do you mean that it has "automove" ability (ie, the process of moving the doc file to RAM is invisible to the user)?

Nope. It reads directly off the CF card. You open it within FAFileMover. Works pretty good, but trying to rotate the screen crasher it.

quote:

2) Whether CF or Memplug, how much RAM do I need to leave open on my Prism?

Very little. the FAFile stuff takes up something less than 200k. Howevever,

quote:

For example, I'd like to leave my AvantGo and SplashPhoto databases on the CF/SM card. But they're each about 3mb - would I have to move the entire db to main RAM, or is there a way to pick and choose what web pages/photos need to go to main RAM? And if the database is larger than free RAM, what happens?

There is not an automover, so not only will you be moving these things manually (not very feasible with something updated as often as Avantgo), you will have to move everything. PalmOS can't see what's on the CF card, only FaFileMover can.

quote:

3) Are any of the CF or MemPlug modules flush? I've heard that some if not all leave the card sticking out of the module - and my Prism case is snug as it is!

yes. The 2nd Matchbook drive and the other one (I forget) are flush. Do a search. There's even a review/head-to-head of two of them.

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05-23-2001 05:04 PM

alanf
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 110

Creole and smitty - okay, I'm being facetious about needing more than 16mb. It's mostly that I'm hesitant to void my warranty with the onboard RAM upgrade (my Prism's paint wears a bit thinner every day - maybe I should replace it when the warranty expires six months from now) OTOH, how many of us have gotten a new Palm and turned out to be wrong when we said, "wow, I'll never need more memory than this!" Also, I think it might be a bit harder to eBay it (the ultimate destination of all my Palms!) after modification, although I don't really know.

Smitty - any advice on the flash modules as an option? Does the Visor "see" the extra memory there, or like with CF, do I have to manually move apps/databases over to RAM before I can access them?

dbohn - thanks for the info. CF is sounding a lot less attractive for me.

05-23-2001 05:35 PM

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quote:
Originally posted by alanf
Smitty - any advice on the flash modules as an option? Does the Visor "see" the extra memory there, or like with CF, do I have to manually move apps/databases over to RAM before I can access them?

You can move most apps to the card and it runs them just like it was in the internal memory. Databases have to be moved manually if you want to update them. When I first got the flash I installed it and moved most of the apps over to the flash just to see what works and what doesn't. I was able to move 99% of the applications over to the flash and run them from there. I didn't move and databases or hacks over because I knew they would crash the unit.

BTW.. I'm using the Handspring 8mb Flash module and my review of it would be excellent. I allows you to free up a lot of memory and doesn't show any apparent slow down when running apps from it. Of course, I really don't need it yet so I moved everything back. I really like it because I can use my EyeModule2 to take a bunch of pictures, then move the picture database off to the flash, pull the flash out, empty the database and take more pictures. Also, I could just move the big apps to the flash to make room for a bigger picture db. It's all good......

05-23-2001 06:04 PM

ForceSHO
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Greenwich
Posts: 13

The price you pay for a deluxe 199 + 100 upgrade = 299 is like getting a pocket pc, like a mono ipaq...

05-23-2001 06:18 PM

akur
Member

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 293

quote:
Originally posted by alanf
akur and dorelse - thanks. A few questions:

1) When you say that a CF solution (an improved FAFileMover, I assume?) now has CSpotRun, do you mean that it has "automove" ability (ie, the process of moving the doc file to RAM is invisible to the user)?

2) Whether CF or Memplug, how much RAM do I need to leave open on my Prism? For example, I'd like to leave my AvantGo and SplashPhoto databases on the CF/SM card. But they're each about 3mb - would I have to move the entire db to main RAM, or is there a way to pick and choose what web pages/photos need to go to main RAM? And if the database is larger than free RAM, what happens?

3) Are any of the CF or MemPlug modules flush? I've heard that some if not all leave the card sticking out of the module - and my Prism case is snug as it is!

FaFilemover uses plugin to do the Cspotrun stuff!
So third party developer just need to make a plugin for their program. For example when I want to open a doc file. i just go to FAFileMover and find my doc file and click the filename. it will pop a little box and you can choose with what program(that have plugin) you want to open that file with! It similar with windows explorer command "open with"

CF adapter from innopocket is flush. I think I have pictures of that in another thread!

I hope this information is useful!

__________________
Have A Good Day!
I Love My Prism!

05-23-2001 08:24 PM

alanf
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 110

quote:
Originally posted by smittyofdhs

You can move most apps to the card and it runs them just like it was in the internal memory. Databases have to be moved manually if you want to update them.

Okay, that surprises me. This means that both the app and the database it uses can sit in the module and be run from there? That sounds fine - I always assumed that at least the app had to be in RAM to run.

quote:
Originally posted by smittyofdhs

I can use my EyeModule2 to take a bunch of pictures, then move the picture database off to the flash, pull the flash out, empty the database and take more pictures.

But if you do this, don't you wind up with two different (and conflicting) eyemodule databases when you pop the flash module in again? How does the Visor deal with this?

Also, I take it I can't modify a database through hotsync this way. For example, if I move my SplashPhoto database to the module, I can't add new photos to it by hotsync - I have to bring the whole db back into RAM before hotsyncing new images into it - right? And AvantGo would be the same - I would have to bring the whole AvantGo db back into RAM before hotsyncing if I wanted to update it, right?

quote:
Originally posted by akur

FaFilemover uses plugin to do the Cspotrun stuff! . . . For example when I want to open a doc file. i just go to FAFileMover and find my doc file and click the filename. it will pop a little box and you can choose with what program(that have plugin) you want to open that file with! It similar with windows explorer command "open with"

That sounds pretty easy. As far as I know, though, only CspotRun currently has a plug-in for FAFileMover. Hope some others step up to the plate, but given that Palm is pursuing the SD approach, I don't know that anyone will.

Apologies for the ignorance. My PC's CD-RW drive still seems like hot stuff to me!

05-23-2001 09:27 PM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:
Originally posted by alanf

That sounds pretty easy. As far as I know, though, only CspotRun currently has a plug-in for FAFileMover. Hope some others step up to the plate, but given that Palm is pursuing the SD approach, I don't know that anyone will.

Actually, it's FAFleMover with the CSpotRun plugin, not the other way around. Important? kinda: you have to run CSpot from FAFile, you can't just run CSpot directly from the launcher.

Wait until VFS support for CF cards comes, if you can.

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05-23-2001 09:31 PM

bkbk
Member

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

Re: Ease up

quote:
Originally posted by alanf
mzucker and I have both asked this question today. I think it's a salient question that has not been well summarized anywhere that I know of. Although I have seen plenty of info/postings here and on PDABuzz and PalmInfocenter, none that I know of have really tried to compare the options. ....

Kopsis Engineering is focused on CF adapters, since their product (FAFileMover, $10 last I saw) works only on CF adapters. So their opinions on, say, the MemPlug or Flash modules might not be as informative. Wouldn't it be nice to hear from somebody who has tried them all?

And bkbk, instead of publicly dissing mzucker and I (and effectively killing off any response to our question), perhaps you could, um . . . . not?

1) You mean derogate, as there is no such word as "dis" or "dissing" --
2) -- and that was certainly not my intention.
3) Try to read ALL POSSIBLE motivations into words and deeds before you "conclude" something erroneous.
4) I'm sorry this forum is public, but it's the only one we have. (I dislike private e-mails, as only 2 parties benefit.)
5) I know the date you both posted, as well as the # OF YOUR POSTS (see mine), as this data is always clearly there for everyone to see.
6) Since I knew this subj. had been covered extensively, and would unlikely be responded to in a timely manner, I WAS TRYING TO HELP YOU get that data in a timely manner. Perchance, you've drawn a number of responses. Wait until you ask a question that's been well-covered, and it's not answered ... and you may wonder (AS RELATIVE NEWBIES, WITH 75 AND 1 POST(S), RESPECTIVELY) WHY NO ONE "CARES" enough to respond. (This will be why.)
7) Please don't derogate (or even imply derogation of) Mr. Kessler's post(s), work, etc. until you are much more knowl. than at present, partic. w/out having read the post in question. He happens to be "one of the great heroes of the Palm economy," and that will never change, whether or not he ever chooses to lift a finger again to further the work (or any other) that he is essentially "the father of." We all owe him a huge debt.

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"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

05-24-2001 02:59 AM

MarkS
Member

Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 8

Just got my Prism back from STNE CORP

It's great to have 16MB on my Prism!!

Had a springboard 8MB module before but this is much better

- having direct access to files and apps and

- not worrying about running out of room.

They did a great job and were very quick in turnaround time.

Highly recommend using them to upgrade your Visor.

Check them out at www.stnecorp.com

Mark

05-24-2001 03:54 AM

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