Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 45

I really wish this web site would stop using FrontPage extensions and make a compliant web site so that when a person drags a window or resizes the window or jumps back and forth, whatever he or she was typing would stay put and not disappear, and that person would not get logged out and have to log in again.

No one should have to switch to Exploder to use a site just because the site isn't written properly.

sledgehammer

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

...

I'm thinking you coulda used a more tactful way of addressing this problem. You'll find quite a few people who are dedicated to this site & won't take kindly to messages like this...

...but since I'm stupid about computers, I'll have to limit my response to that, I can't help you with your frontpage problem...

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

I doubt they are using Frontpage extensions to manage a PHP based community forum (which, BTW, is one of the best I've used, interface- and funtionality-wise, IMHO).

And, to Microsoft's credit, Explorer is much closer to being a standards-compliant web browser than Netscape 4 EVER was.

Netscape 6, while being standards compliant, is infinitely more buggy than IE.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

yeah. What he said.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 441

ACK! I hate Netscape 6. Way too buggy! I just realized that IE and Netscape have traded places over the past few years. IE which used to be super-buggy and netscape nice and stable are now opposite.

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"It's a long way from my thoughts to what I'll say, It's a long, long way from paradise to where I am today." -Switchfoot, Home

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 45

Well excuuuse me!

Speaking as someone dedicated to this site, get down off your high horse! I don't want to get off on a flame war here, and if you want to have an Roberts Rules or ettiquette discussion, fine by me. It still doesn't change the fact that Microsoft builds crappy software that is not HTML or Java or Javascript compliant so that people will be forced to use their browser and open themselves up to severe security issues.

For the most part, I like this site. But a statue of David made out of feces will still start to stink. By making a compliant web site, all are better served. And when a reply to your query to tech support is, basically, "our site is non-compliant, we know about the problem with Netscape, use Explorer instead", one can get peeved.

There have been a multitude of times when I have had spent time constructing a response to a query on these groups, only to have them disappear due to a slipped mouse click and a resize instead of a drag. I have also had problems with the system logging me out when I submit a reply, which trashes my response and forces me to start over again. These roadblocks on the info superhighway have a limiting effect on a person's enthusiasm. As I feel I have something to share, naturally I get offended by things that get in the way.

You profess an ignorance of computers, no problem. That might be why you do not understand that the problem with Frontpage lies not with me, but in the incompetance that is Microsoft. If you do a little poking around on the net, you should find no shortage of pages showing the security loopholes and non-compliance of their products.

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 45

Yeah, it will be a loooong time until N6 finds a home on one of my machines. But I have had nothing but love for 4.76, and now 4.77. Exploder has gotten better, but the openess of it to securtiy breaches and virus attacks makes me wonder of the sanity of anyone using it.

sledgehammer

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 347

Re: Well excuuuse me!

quote:

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Originally posted by sledgehammer
It still doesn't change the fact that Microsoft builds crappy software that is not HTML or Java or Javascript compliant so that people will be forced to use their browser and open themselves up to severe security issues.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

Re: Well excuuuse me!

quote:

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Originally posted by sledgehammer
Speaking as someone dedicated to this site, get down off your high horse!

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[dietrichbohn gets down]

quote:

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I don't want to get off on a flame war here, and if you want to have an Roberts Rules or ettiquette discussion, fine by me.

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Right. See why you're aggravated, I would be too. Just seemed like you were trolling, and I'm a fish that can't help but bite.
They're redesigning the site as we speak, maybe some constructive suggestions might help?[dietrichbohn cringes]. As I said, I'm computer-stupid. I have found, however, that 90% of the time when I go on the attack for a technical error, I've misinterpreted the problem. I'm not saying you have, but wonder if you'd considered it. This site is great for troubleshooting, and usually posing a question gets a more helpful response.

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Re: Well excuuuse me!

quote:

---

Originally posted by sledgehammer
Speaking as someone dedicated to this site, get down off your high horse! I don't want to get off on a flame war here, and if you want to have an Roberts Rules or ettiquette discussion, fine by me. It still doesn't change the fact that Microsoft builds crappy software that is not HTML or Java or Javascript compliant so that people will be forced to use their browser and open themselves up to severe security issues.

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Registered: May 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1429

I'm going to get involved to..

NETSCAPE SUCKS!!! IE is a much better, elss buggy browser. I LOVE MICROSOFT! MAY THEY LIVE FOREVER! DEATH TO AOLTIMEWARNER!! MUHAHAHA

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-miradu

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

sledgehammer:

Your complaint is legit. One should NOT have to use a specific web browser to use the functionality of the site.

However, your complaint may be addressed to the wrong audience. Netscape is to blame for producing a web browser (Navigator 4) that is woefully NOT in compliance with web standards. Netscape 6 is very close to being a compliant browser, but Mozilla is the only 'truly' compliant, free browser out there.

Explorer has improved significantly over the years...especially on the Mac platform. Does MS make crappy software? Yes. But so does Netscape. And the ONLY reason you haven't heard of any security holes in Netscape Navigator 4 recently is because they haven't updated that software in how many years?

The resizing problem you are encountering is specific to Netscape Navigator.

Could VisorCentral do something to accomodate that? Perhaps, but they, as many web sites and web development firms are finding, it doesn't necessarily pay (financially) to exert the extra time, energy, and money to fix bugs in the web browsers.

The web standards project is an excellent site to learn more about this issue:

http://www.webstandards.org/

As for FrontPage extensions, I see nothing on the site that would indicate that they are using a Frontpage server to run this site. If they are, then I'd have to agree with you and 'shame on VisorCentral' for using them.

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Registered: Aug 1999
Location: Inverness, FL
Posts: 428

The resizing problem is specific to Netscape, and we are looking into if it can be resolved.

The main problem is that Netscape forces a refresh of the page whenver you resize it, and we have set the pages to expire immediately since the these pages are updated quite frequently.

I did notice that our user review page
http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-7-6-0-7.htm
does not loose the text when resizing.

This might be resolved by VisorCentral 3, since we are not planning any new updates on the current version.

There are no Frontpage extensions on VisorCentral (some pages were initially layout in Frontpage though, because it's table management is better than any other solution I have seen... haven't looked that hard though).

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<B>Marcus Adolfsson</B>
Editor

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1883

quote:

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Originally posted by sledgehammer
Exploder has gotten better, but the openess of it to securtiy breaches and virus attacks makes me wonder of the sanity of anyone using it.

sledgehammer

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<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 72

whoa

quote:

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Originally posted by dietrichbohn
yeah. What he said.

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ROFLMAO..... Thanks for the laugh, I realize that it didn't require a response but neither did the original off topic, VC bashing nonsence and it got more attention than it deserved.... {that's only my opinion of course}
Have a good day all.

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Just about the browsers

I use Mac OSX. IE is terrible. If there is a computer I am forced to use, I download Mozilla or Opera and go from there. Internet Explorer, from ALL perspectives, is the WORST browser the world has to offer today. (Also the slowest, the most incorret, and the most Virus-prone.


If you want NS6 features, but think it is too buggy, try Mozilla. Same thing, but more techy! It's just as clunky , but it's dead-on reliable when compared next to the POS that is IE, the old Netscape, NS6, and the buggy-but-otherwise brilliant OmniWeb.

If you use Mac, you should be using OmniWeb or Opera! They're probably the two best browsers on ANY os on the planet! (iCab's cool, but lacks too much stuff now )


Other than that, I like VC much better than say... theiMac.com, which gets updated about once every decade. (Although, they offered me a moderator job... scary, but true!)

But could they lengthen the Time-out time? I often finding myself logging on again because I took to long tying the post!

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 347

are you joking? IE5 for the mac is one of the best browsers out there. The Tazman rendering engine renders pages with almost complete accuracy.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

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I use Mac OSX. IE is terrible. If there is a computer I am forced to use, I download Mozilla or Opera and go from there. Internet Explorer, from ALL perspectives, is the WORST browser the world has to offer today. (Also the slowest, the most incorret, and the most Virus-prone.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 45

Replies to most

Wow, I didn't think that I would incite the kind of response. But here are some replies to those who responded to me.

First, I AM NOT BASHING VISOR CENTRAL!!! I like the site, and am frustrated at what I thought was MS Frontpage crap in what is one of the best sites, if not the best site, for Handspring info. If you found a friend was doing something really wrong, would it not frustrate you as well?


To Homer, Creole and the others that have pointed out places to check browser compatability, thanks. There isn't a lot that will get me to change to IE, but I wiull definately check those sites out.

To smitty, give up trying to seem witty. You only show your own ignorance. Unless someone brings it up, how does someone know if they are the only one? Obviously I am not, as others that use Netscape get the same situation happening. Move out of BFE and get some people skills.

Most of all, to Marcus. Thank you very much for a rational explanation of what is happening. I attributed the errors I was getting to MS FP, as I was getting similar errors on sites that were. I was wrong, thanks for pointing it out. It does seem like bs for Netscape to redraw on resize. I am still curious about losing the logged-on status, perhaps it too is a Netscape anomaly.

To those touting Opera, Omniview and IE for the Mac, sorry but I am a Intel user. (Until Amiga rises again!) But I won't want to start a MAC/PC war, so I will leave it at that.

sledgehammer

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Re: Replies to most

quote:

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Originally posted by sledgehammer
First, I AM NOT BASHING VISOR CENTRAL!!! I like the site, and am frustrated at what I thought was MS Frontpage crap in what is one of the best sites, if not the best site, for Handspring info. If you found a friend was doing something really wrong, would it not frustrate you as well?

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