Registered: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 11

Most SpringBoard modules are useless

How many of you out there agree with me? Let me clarify that there are some very useful modules like: flash memory, backup, wireless (ethernet or modem), electronic references. But most of the modules out there seem pretty useless, created for novelty and/or simply because you can...

For example:
EyeModule - Why not just get a standalone camera? It's cheaper and takes better quality photos (if you get the right dig. camera)
MiniJam - Why not just get a standalone MP3 player? It's cheaper, smaller, and can often hold more memory.
Voice Recorders - Why not just get a standalone voice recorder? It's cheaper, smaller, and can often hold more record time
Radio - Why not just get a standalone walkmanr? It's cheaper, smaller, and usually more portable than a Visor when running, etc.

Do you see the trend here? Are there any advantages to having these modules added on to the Visor? I have tried many of the modules above, and I laugh at the lunacy of why someone would dish out so much money for these add-on's when the standalones have greater capabilities and/or cheaper prices.

This is not meant to start a war, I have a VDx and I like the idea of expandability. but I think it's ludicrous for all these modules to be priced so astronomical when they seem to offer no competitive advantage or superior capabilities. How and why do they try to compete with the standalones?

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Wender Hwang
Synapse Technology Editor
UCSF School of Medicine, Class of 2004

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 447

Some of them are just more convient than having two devices, but sometimes the price differences is too big even for that convience. But for the EyeModule and EM2, I guess because you can download the pictures straight to the Visor. Also, the geek factor.

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 604

Some are useless, but not most. I disagree with some of the examples you cite. For example, the SoundsGood MP3 is (with the price cut to $150) very competitive on price with an external MP3 module.

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Mo-Town, WV
Posts: 22

I also disagree about the SoundsGood. I have one, and I paid $150 for a 64mb mp3 player, that was cheeper, smaller, more memory, and high quality than my Diamond Rio. Also, what I like about using it on the Visor is that it's just similar to using WinAmp on your computer. The Voice Recorder I can agree on and the radio, but the EyeModule might be handier if you just want to carry less.

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~Jonathan

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 53

eyemodule

EM2 is useless? I know I sometime wish for built-in flash to take better images, but it sure is a good and capable module otherwise.
I carry it with visor all the time, and people think I'm just carrying "Palm", so I can even take it to no-photo places and take images. (not that I do it...often)

with eyecontact, as you might know, I can put my friend's face on their addresses. when someone ask me what my friend look like, I don't have to explain his/her facial features and stuff, I just show the image.

doing those without using any other device, now that's pretty good in my opinion.

visor/module is just another tool after all, it's all depend on how you use them, isn't it? you don't have to have all just because they are available, you should buy what you NEED to have.

at the same time, I really like the idea of Soundsgood or Step keeper, since it can work as stand alone, and when you put it into visor, it can have some more function. I want to see that kind of module more.

u-key

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 72

quote:

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Originally posted by Thunderbird291
Also, the geek factor.

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Never underestimate the geek factor.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 268

I disagree on SoundsGood (see reasons above) & voice recorder. I got a Targus voice recorder and I use it a lot to record voice to upload to my computer. A stand alone with similar capabilites are much bigger and much more expensive.

The point isn't whether a SB can be a stand alone. The Eyemodule is tiny. Compare the Visor with EM in it versus carrying both the Visor and a digicam. Also the VisorPhone is great for data mangement. The biggest feature of the phone isn't the size or the capability of using it as a modem. It's that you can use the address book to make phone calls. Without it, you have to enter a friend's phone number TWICE every time you want to edit: once in the Visor and once in your cell phone's directory. Eliminating this double entry alone makes the VisorPhone worth every penny of the $249 ... er ... now only $49 price tag.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 268

quote:

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Originally posted by Thunderbird291
Also, the geek factor.

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Priceless.

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

In a small pouch, I can carry a complete array of abilities by using my VDX as the platform. I usually carry the MiniJam and Eyemodule with me routinely because their light weight and small size makes that possible.

At work, for example, I can photodocument something (in my case, usually something I need to fix or build around) in a heartbeat, without having to have had the foresight to have packed my digital camera. Without any real weight penalty, I can listen to my music (rather than the background junk) while I work or wait.

In a small pouch I have the HandyGPS, Thinmodem, cables, spare batteries, Stowaway, etc. whichgives me an incredible array of possibilities.

OK- I concede that usually a standalone device gives more options, more power, lower costs, or whatever, but few standalones are as portable- as sheerly brainlessly HANDY as the modules can be for people who can use them.

Radio module? As tiny as it is, I would consider carrying it so i could use it and the MiniJam as a virtual Walkman replacement (if the price were low enough!) Voice Recorder? The tiny ones are awfully limited, but the module is practically a replacement for a microcassette recorder- a device I dearly love and use frequently. With the tiny module, I can leave one more big device at home and replace it with a matchbox-sized package.

The great thing about a free economy is that this kind of stuff is available for those of us who want or can use it, even if it seems silly or extravagent to other people.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

Something in Mind

WKeep in mind that what mighjt be useless to me and you could be very useful to someone else. The Eyemodule camera is one of the top selling modules..So are the MP3 players.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

'usefulness' is a totally personal thing.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Module Procing Policy

Its not the functionality of modules that I question, but the rationale on pricing.

A good rule of thumb: For all non-communication modules take the price you would expect to pay for a stand alone product and multiply it by 1.5. For all communication modules multiply by 2.5.

This current VisorPhone discount is the exception to my rule; however I am not convinced that the service with the Sprint PCS module wouldn't be worth the extra $200. I plan to demo the module at my Sprint store as soon as one becomes available.

I have a couple of modules...the OmniRemote, which is my "default" module, and a Card Access Thinmodem. I would not qualify either of them as "killer", though I rectified my problems with the OmniRemote by going to NimH batteries. If you question the functionality of being able to operate IR devices from a distance with your Visor, you are not thinking clearly. The modem module gets the job done, but despite the label and the software upgrade, it aint no 56k modem.

I am concerned about buying any more modules, as the industry seems to be moving toward SD modules which are much, much smaller than a Springboard unit. I'd sure hate to have $500 worth of modules that are hopelessly obsolete in 18 months.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 125

My $0.02 worth --

It seems like the majority of modules that are out there right now are either very useful but too expensive, or affordable but trivial. To me, a module is "useless" if the sum of its expense and lack of actual pragmatic potential exceeds a certain amount. So "usefulness" is gauged in relative terms -- is the module more expensive than what it is worth? For example, the VisorPhone before the massive price cuts was a module that was useful but rendered "useless" to me because of the steep price tag. Another example is the StepKeeper module, which is not exactly "useful" but kind of fun, but I think (as did the person who reviewed it at VC) that it is worth about $30, not $50. This isn't "uselessness", strictly speaking, but more a gauge of whether a module is buyable or not. (Is that a word?)

I am getting quite tired of the Springboard platform because of this lack of matching affordability with usefulness. I know that minaturization is expensive, etc., but I continue to be frustrated by the cost of springboard modules, which to me has always seemed prohibitive except in a few special cases. The fact that Handspring could cut $200 off the price of a VisorPhone says something about how much the profit motive and not simply clearing overhead accounts for where prices are set. (HOw much does it cost to manufacture a VisorPhone, anyway?) This is to say nothing of those companies that promise a lot in their modules and then either never deliver them or fail to support them once they are released (SixPack anyone?).

Sorry to rant. Just wanted to get it off my chest. Carry on.

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BertBert
Mark 12:28-31

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

Re: Module Procing Policy

quote:

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Originally posted by Keefer Lucas


I am concerned about buying any more modules, as the industry seems to be moving toward SD modules which are much, much smaller than a Springboard unit. I'd sure hate to have $500 worth of modules that are hopelessly obsolete in 18 months.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 11

Re: Module Procing Policy

quote:

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Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
Its not the functionality of modules that I question, but the rationale on pricing.

A good rule of thumb: For all non-communication modules take the price you would expect to pay for a stand alone product and multiply it by 1.5. For all communication modules multiply by 2.5.

...

I am concerned about buying any more modules, as the industry seems to be moving toward SD modules which are much, much smaller than a Springboard unit. I'd sure hate to have $500 worth of modules that are hopelessly obsolete in 18 months.

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Wender Hwang
Synapse Technology Editor
UCSF School of Medicine, Class of 2004

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 11

quote:

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Originally posted by BertBert
My $0.02 worth --

It seems like the majority of modules that are out there right now are either very useful but too expensive, or affordable but trivial. To me, a module is "useless" if the sum of its expense and lack of actual pragmatic potential exceeds a certain amount. So "usefulness" is gauged in relative terms -- is the module more expensive than what it is worth? For example, the VisorPhone before the massive price cuts was a module that was useful but rendered "useless" to me because of the steep price tag. Another example is the StepKeeper module, which is not exactly "useful" but kind of fun, but I think (as did the person who reviewed it at VC) that it is worth about $30, not $50. This isn't "uselessness", strictly speaking, but more a gauge of whether a module is buyable or not. (Is that a word?)

I am getting quite tired of the Springboard platform because of this lack of matching affordability with usefulness. I know that minaturization is expensive, etc., but I continue to be frustrated by the cost of springboard modules, which to me has always seemed prohibitive except in a few special cases. The fact that Handspring could cut $200 off the price of a VisorPhone says something about how much the profit motive and not simply clearing overhead accounts for where prices are set. (HOw much does it cost to manufacture a VisorPhone, anyway?) This is to say nothing of those companies that promise a lot in their modules and then either never deliver them or fail to support them once they are released (SixPack anyone?).

Sorry to rant. Just wanted to get it off my chest. Carry on.

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Wender Hwang
Synapse Technology Editor
UCSF School of Medicine, Class of 2004

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

Heck, if the cost factor is your main consideration, consider this: I have only paid full price for my old Compact Flash Adaptor. I got everything else on sale, used, or otherwise reduced in price.

My eyemodule (1) cost me about $40- the only problem was a damaged label. Thinmodem and SoundsGood- similar deal. FlashPlus- cheap upgrade. The GPS belongs to the evaluation lab at work, but I don't have much need for it in daily life- if I did, however, I would have bought it used as well!

I am sorta glad so many people buy new then change their mind, or upgrade to a non-compatible system- thank you, thank you, thank you!

The cost/benefit ratio IS a concern, but it is ALWAYS like this in the first stages of a new technology. A lot of you here are too young to remember it, but simple memory used to cost hundreds of dollars a kilobyte (yes- per KB!) Floppy drives (5.25") were incredibly expensive- as were the disks.

As the technology settles down, I would expect to see fewer modules that do more things for less cost. For example- I really expect to see a 'generic' dual slot SM/MMC/etc. module that can use the card for direct access, or for books on memory chips- the golf, cookbook, PDR, and other modules would become simple chips instead- probably compatible with Palm's M-series cards and software (or, publishers would put both the Palm and Visor versions on the same chip, like they used to do for floppies that held both IBM and Apple versions). I would even bet that this module is eventually the default shipping module as long as Spriongboard technology is around- this would position the Visor on about the same level as the newer Palms, etc.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 125

quote:

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Originally posted by Madkins007

The cost/benefit ratio IS a concern, but it is ALWAYS like this in the first stages of a new technology.
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As the technology settles down, I would expect to see fewer modules that do more things for less cost.

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Your point about buying used (or "previously loved" as another thread on this board puts it) is well-made. A lot of people use the same sort of reasoning when buying cars, and for the same reason. And yes, I am old enough to remember (back in my TI-99/4A days ) when computing equipment that today would be like buying a cheeseburger at McDonald's was a major investment. The TI-99 example I have in mind is a 5.25 floppy drive -- it was so expensive (relative to my mom & dad's income back then) that instead of saving programs to disk, I actually hand-copied them onto a piece of paper and re-typed them in line by line later on. (That sounds like one of those "old man" stories... "When I was a boy, we didn't HAVE disk drives...")

One thing though -- are we really still in the initial stages of handheld technology? Palm devices have been around for years now. Perhaps we are in the initial stages of "expandable" handheld technology. But in that case, will we ever not be in the initial stages of technology? The industry seems so bent on pushing forward (with seemingly little regard for craftsmanship.. are there any handhelds that are advertised as "built to last"?) that no technology ever gets a chance to settle down. So I wonder if the current problem with cost-benefit is temporary at all but rather a feature inherent to the handheld sector. If so, I would not hold out much hope for handheld technology actually penetrating the world of the everday user like the PC has.

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BertBert
Mark 12:28-31

Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 2

why thier so expensive

you forget that the reason prices fall on computer parts is that there is so much demand, in the millions of pieces, that companies can then build them for next to nothing because they can purchase parts in huge lots and save big, thus passing savings on. Until there are 100's of thousands of visor users willing to buy a module so that springboard module companies can manufacture these modules in HUGE quantities expect the prices to stay high....basically in my opinion the reason for high prices: not enough market!

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 11

Re: why thier so expensive

quote:

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Originally posted by m4l2
you forget that the reason prices fall on computer parts is that there is so much demand, in the millions of pieces, that companies can then build them for next to nothing because they can purchase parts in huge lots and save big, thus passing savings on. Until there are 100's of thousands of visor users willing to buy a module so that springboard module companies can manufacture these modules in HUGE quantities expect the prices to stay high....basically in my opinion the reason for high prices: not enough market!

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I'm sorry, you have your economics wrong. Not enough market/demand should result in low prices. It is the lack of production (or as I like to think, withholding production) that drives up prices. Even if modules are produced in huge quantities, the prices will still be high if the demand is high enough. Everything seems counter-intuitive in SpringBoard modules because of the monopoly factor. There is only one or a few companies producing these modules. Without competition or new manufacturers who can produce and sell at lower prices, prices will remain fixed at high levels and output low to maintain the high prices.

I get little opportuniy to flex my Economics major in medical school, I'm just trying keep it from going to waste...

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Wender Hwang
Synapse Technology Editor
UCSF School of Medicine, Class of 2004