Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

New platinum has flash rom!

I just uncover my platinum,and I found that my new platinum had a flash rom!!! That's great,I think the next ver. of trg pro will suoport that,so I can put the FAfilemover into flash,that's great!!!

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

Are you sure?

quote:

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Originally posted by mltl
I just uncover my platinum,and I found that my new platinum had a flash rom!!! That's great,I think the next ver. of trg pro will suoport that,so I can put the FAfilemover into flash,that's great!!!

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 30

Unfortunately visor doesn't have flash rom and you cant upgarde the Palm OS on it

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

i think u'r wrong,on handspring's web site,they does say that they have no plan to make flash rom as paltinum's rom,but what i said is true,i can even post the photo for u,i just don't know how can i post that img. ?

and if u can open ur platinum,u can see the handspring had keep their way to install flash rom on platinum's PCB.

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

photos

okay,I put the photo on my website,

http://go5.163.com/~michaelleo/

[Edited by mltl on 02-02-2001 at 04:23 AM]

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 8

Can anyone verify this?!?!?!?!?!?

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 68

Well, if the close up picture that you posted is really from your Visor, then you might be right....

We can see that the part number begins with is HY29L, so I checked the Hyundai web site:
HY=Hyundai
29=Flash Memory !!!
L (actually LV) = 3.0V

Check http://www.hei.co.kr/eng/products/s...ash_image01.gif

mltl, could you please post the full part number??

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

so,u make me re-open my platinum.

PN:hy29lv160bt-12w,

and the photo:

http://go5.163.com/~michaelleo/005.jpg

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 68

Thanks mltl... I don't have my Platinum here, but I'll open it up tonight to see if mine has the same chip.

So, now we have:

HY=Hyundai
29=Flash Memory
LV=3.0V
160=16M (16 Mbit = 2Mbyte)
B=3rd gen.
T=top sector
12=120 ns
W=??? (temperature range, we don't care anyway)

Now if this turns true, what software can we use to take advantage of it?

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 284

Hmmm, while they may have used a flash for this, they may not have hooked up the write pins for it (as I understand things, there are certain pins on the device that require certain voltage levels to be able to write to the device). Even if they have, it's not going to be cheap or easy to flash a new image on it, as I doubt they have the ability to write these on the main board (requiring special hardware to burn the new image in). Not worth the time, money, and effort, IMHO.

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

I had try TRGPRO and jackflash,but they not support Platinum now,

and if your platinum buy in 4 weeks,i think it use flash too.good luck anyway.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 68

Also found this on the Hyundai web site (full spec sheet of the chip) : http://www.hea.com/Products/Memory/...V160_DS_v10.pdf

sowens may be right anyway, even if it has a flash chip, it doesn't mean one can write to it using the existing hardware.

How do you normally flash a Palm with flash ROM, like a Vx?

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

I dont think so.why handspring do that?they design for use flash and mass rom,if they dont want platinum can be upgraded,they can use mass rom only,why they keep that way?
And,it's not so hard to program the flash,it just need 3.0v to program,and turn "read" mode to "write" mode.So,I think next ver of Trgpro will support that.

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

This is very interesting. mltl is correct: his Visor Platinum does have a Flash ROM chip. Now we need to find out how many other Platinums do. Anyone else willing to open their's up? Can someone also check out the Prism?

The write enable signal to the Flash could be a problem. The Flash chip wants a single write enable signal (WE#) and a separate signal indicating a byte (8-bit) write or a word (16-bit) write. The Dragonball VZ outputs separate write signals for both the upper (UWE#) and lower (LWE#) bytes. This either requires external logic to translate the signals or the design is done one way - say all accesses to the Flash are 16-bit - and the software must make sure to never try and access it the other way - 8-bits accesses.

The next problem is software. In order to use the extra space in the Flash ROM for app/database storage, we would need to have a version of FileMover that works with this Hyundai chip. I'm not sure if Handspring gives the source code away for FileMover or not.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: mass
Posts: 56

wow

Who knew?

If they are not going to offer OS upgrades, the only reason I can think of for HS using flash is that it allows for last minute tweaks during manufacture. If they used otp roms, they would have to program them before soldering to the board. If they used masked roms, they would have to commit to firmware even earlier (weeks, months?). By using flash they can burn the firmware image in-circuit. Discover a bug, or decide to add a feature? Just reprogram remaining inventory.

Some flash mem chips require high voltage generated off-chip for program and erase, but this one appears to have everything it needs to be programmed in circuit.

There's a bit of an issue in terms of bootstrap/monitor app to actually perform the upgrade without leaving the device in an OS-less state, but that is probably already solved.

Looking forward to OS4.0 on my Prism! (I guess I should check to see if it too has flash rom)

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 7

After a fair amount of prying, I just saw the innards of my Plat for the very first time.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have a Flash ROM chip. My chip wasn't manufactured by Hyundai. It had an "E1" instead of the "E2" and the country of origin was Japan. That was about all I could make out because the labeling was so faint.

Where are you located mltl? When did you buy your Plat? Are you in South East Asia? I'm in the States. It's quite possible that a run of Plats were manufactured with Flash ROM for distribution outside the US in a foreign market. It would make sense if you just purchased your Plat, since the shortage of Flash is now beginning to ease.

Handspring might or might not know about this. The manufacturing plant may have had a component shortage or perhaps they screwed up. If they do know they would obviously take care not to publicize it. After all, it wouldn't do to have a mess of angry consumers wondering why they didn't get Flash ROM in their Visor Platinum. That's why, even if they did know, they would refrain from releasing a ROM upgrade.

Regardless mltl, I think you're pretty fortunate to have Flash ROM - you'll probably be able to upgrade to OS 4, while the rest of us are stuck with 3.5.x

For all you other Plat owners out there, maybe someone will figure out a way to check whether or not you have Flash ROM without having to open the case. Anybody else find they have Flash?

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 384

Hmm...

First of all, I really don't think that any of the Handspring product lines have flash ROM. According to their product FAQ's, flash ROM was too expensive to incorporate into the Visors. I'm not sure what mltl has, but I don't think handspring would secretly put flash ROM into the Platinum. This serves no purpose.

BUT then again, no-one apparently knew about the "SG Maneuver". Even the support people at Handspring was unaware of this hidden feature. Think of all the money they could have saved if they were aware of the "SG Maneuver".

Taking this into account, it could be (although highly, highly ulikely) possible that the Platinum has flash ROM. I remember from Handspring's website that future OS upgrade will be accomplished with a module. It could be possible that the module contains the programs that could access and write onto this "flash ROM". So you insert the module to update your OS, then just pull the module out and you have a new OS installed. That would be pretty cool indeed. But it's probably just speculation.

On a personal note, I don't believe that flash ROM is all that necessary. There are only minute differences between the Palm OS 3.1 to the Palm OS 3.5. According to PalmStation, Palm OS 4.0 will have most of the same features as the Handspring modified OS 3.5.

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Fat's

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: mass
Posts: 56

my prism has flash

hy29lv160bt-90w

This is the 90ns version, as opposed to the 120ns version that mltl reported in his platinum. Overclocking potential? Had to dig a bit deeper to find it on the prism -- you actually have to disassemble the mainboard/display sandwich.

Oh yeah: If anyone else is heading in to check their plats or prisms out, don't be an idiot like me -- back everything up first. I've got some reinstalling to do now.

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 83

Geeeeeeeeeeee! How come!?

My VPL has got a Flash in it as well! Thats the first reason that I'm surprised. Its not HY, its AMD! Why is mine different from everyone else's!? The product No. is Am29LV160DB-120EC
I check from AMD's website, it says it is:

Flash/EPROM Single Power Supply Flash
Vcc Supply Voltage 3.0V
Density 16 Mbit
Sector Configuration Bottom Boot
Bus Width 16
Package Type TSOP
Speed (ns) 120
Operating Temperature Range 0C to +70C -- Commercial
Package Pin Count 48
OPN [29LV160D]

Does that mean I've got myself a PDA with a FlashROM without noticing and even paying for it!? Darn it I'm excited, Thank u mltl! I saw ur post in Hi-PDA, and didn't think much of it, until the discussions here got my curiousity took over my fear....I backuped my visor, and there i go! After I opened it nervously, the first thing that caught my eyes was that BIG white E2, then, i carefully cleared some paint away on that E, so i can make out the numbers: am29lv160db, went to AMD's site stright away....

You R GOD, my man! Hopefully ppl here could figure out what it could mean and do for us "FlashROM Visor Platinum Owners��" /me talking to myself: jus calm down, calm down..... =P


BTW mltl:
I'm in Hi-PDA discussions with ya. =) here

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Always have my Visor with me...... =)

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 83

oh, BTW

In case u guys wanted to know, I got my Visor about a month ago, in United Kingdom. Technomatic This the website I got it from.
=) hope someone figures this out soon!

[Edited by meitsjustme on 02-05-2001 at 09:58 PM]

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Always have my Visor with me...... =)