Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Should Palms be allowed in schools?

Check out this article from Wired News:

http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,45863,00.html

It's an interesting debate. Do educators view PDAs as a tool, or a toy? Do you think PDAs belong in the school curriculum?

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My blog: Pocketfactory

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Maryland Go Terps!
Posts: 59

Re: Should Palms be allowed in schools?

quote:

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Originally posted by foo fighter
Check out this article from Wired News:

http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,45863,00.html

It's an interesting debate. Do educators view PDAs as a tool, or a toy? Do you think PDAs belong in the school curriculum?

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 366

Yes

My school mainly views them the same way they view graphing calculators. Most teachers view them as tools and don't really bother me or any other student that has a Palm. I think I am only one of 10 students in a school of 1200 that has somekind of Palm OS PDA. One of them is my girlfriend

The only way to make sure school don't ban them is to be responsible with them. For example, my girlfriend and I won't play Battleship over IR during AP Physics though the temptation is there.

The biggest difference is that I am not allowed to have it on my desk during tests.

Jason

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Maryland Go Terps!
Posts: 59

Re: Yes

quote:

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Originally posted by volcanopele


The only way to make sure school don't ban them is to be responsible with them. For example, my girlfriend and I won't play Battleship over IR during AP Physics though the temptation is there.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 23

My wife is a junior high teacher and they have recently had to address the issue of PDAs in school. The school decided to not allow them because they were viewed mainly as toys. I would agree that high school students are probably mature enough to handle using them responsibly while at school. Junior high and below probably will not use them appropriately. At the junior high level you also have the issue of parents being upset if something happens to a pda while a student is at school. Schools do not this additional potential problem.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Re: Re: Yes

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckster:
But once more students have them, someone will abuse it.

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I found it interesting that the kid in the news article downloaded OmniRemote and used it to turn one of the TVs on in his classroom. Then they banned Palm devices in his school because of his stupidity, and he thinks that is unfair! Looks like his school had better start offering classes in personal responsibility.

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Registered: Feb 2001
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Posts: 447

Re: Re: Re: Yes

quote:

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Originally posted by foo fighter


I found it interesting that the kid in the news article downloaded OmniRemote and used it to turn one of the TVs on in his classroom. Then they banned Palm devices in his school because of his stupidity, and he thinks that is unfair! Looks like his school had better start offering classes in personal responsibility.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 447

Also, why limit irresponsibility to students? I've heard more than one adult talking about reading AvantGo or playing games in a meeting. No, not before the meeting, during it, the point when they should be listening. Just because someone is under 21 doesn't mean they are stupid/irresponsible/immature.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by Thunderbird291
Also, why limit irresponsibility to students? I've heard more than one adult talking about reading AvantGo or playing games in a meeting.

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My blog: Pocketfactory

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 125

I think the last sentence of the article holds the most salient point: The student says "If you are playing a game in class you must really be bored and want to try something new." Students get bored becuase they are not engaged in what's going on in the classroom, and they will use any means at their disposal to alleviate that boredom.

The typical American public (or private!) school approach to a problem like this is to extinguish the behavior by any means necessary rather than examine what's going on in the classroom and ask questions about whether the students are really connecting with the class or not. If a school is having problems with students using Palms in mischevious ways in class, then banning the Palm devices is not getting at the root of the problem any more than duct-taping their hands together. The problem is more likely to lie in a classroom pedagogy that does not engage the students but rather just expects them to be passive recipients of information given in the form of a lecture. Get students involved actively and hold them accountable for their activities, and you will have no such problem as this any more, and moreover you will be helping them internalize the material rather in a more permanent way.

Besides, when students get to college and then into the workplace, they are going to be expected to be fluent in the latest technology, such as handhelds. What's the point of denying students access to current technology because that technology can be abused? Food can be abused too, so should we not serve lunch at school any more because food fights might break out? Secondary schools need to start thinking about why their students are so bored -- and whether they are crafting pedagogy and policy that really meets their students' needs. "Magnet" schools like the one depicted in the article especially have no excuse for not doing this because they exist for the sole purpose of advancing student-centered instruction in innovative ways.

FYI, I am a product of public schools (except grad schools) and teach math and CS in a liberal arts college.

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BertBert
Mark 12:28-31

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 366

Actually having read the article this time, I still agree, as a high school senior with a VPL, that Palms should be allowed in school.

quote:

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"I have no data, but I believe kids will read more on the Palm than they do on books because Palms are their generation," said Elliot Soloway, a professor in the college of engineering and school of education at the University of Michigan.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 107

Re: Re: Re: Yes

quote:

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Originally posted by foo fighter

Looks like his school had better start offering classes in personal responsibility.

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Michael W. Cristiani
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Registered: Aug 2001
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Posts: 383

In my middle school when I got a 3rd hand WinCe device and brought it in to replace my agenda book I couldn't take it out without being swarmed so I ended up having to be discret (in Middle School). Many kids claimed they aren't allowed but I had checked the handbook and no one said they weren't allowed. So I continued to use it and the wowness wore off. I will have to check my High School handbook on their policy but I think they should be allowed but it seems the stupidity of the few make everyone lose their privialges in public schools and its not right (I remember getting my whole class to write letters to the principal in Elementary school because the lunch aid maid us lose recess when we didn't do anything wrong and that it was other classes). My schools do ban communications devices. If they do allow palms in my High School I wonder what my teacher's response to eBooks will be.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 447

quote:

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Originally posted by foo fighter


LOL! That was my first thought as well, teachers are goofing off as much as the students!



My point was, he should have known better than to f*ck with the TVs in the first place. Did the TV belong to him, or the school? Even kindergartners are taught not to touch or play with something that doesn't belong to them.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Spring Lake Park, MN (45min from minneapolis)
Posts: 313

i also agree that palm devises should be alowed in most schools(junior+). but did you know that on one of handsprings newsletters where people tell their stories, a 2 grader wrote a letter to his principle to let him use his visor to organise his life. but i find it hard to beleive taht a second grader could easily comprehend the visor or could tell the deference from whether its a toy or tool.

in my school i know of no one that ownes a palm devise and only one of them i know knows about it. i brough my visor to school one day and everyone talks to me about "what kind of gameboy is that?"

im pretty sure that its allowed because here are the rules about electronics for my school(westwood middle school):

Radios, tape or CD players, pagers, cell phones, laser pens, and all other electronic devices are absolutely prohibited and will be confiscated. Once a laser pen is confiscated it will not be returned until the end of the school year.

and since our school requires graphing calculaters(T1-82 recommended, i think) for kids taking geometry(ME!) and will be recieving high school credits. i think my visor should be allowed.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 40

quote:

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Originally posted by robert sibell
i also agree that palm devises should be alowed in most schools(junior+).

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You can have my PDA when you pry it from my cold dead hand! <g>

Registered: Dec 2000
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BertBert, I have to disagree with you.

I was a high school teacher for five years. I saw plenty of good, engaging teaching going on. Guess, what, there were still kids with no respect, no control over their behavior, and plenty of goofing off.

The problem with schools these days is that teachers are expected to do the job of teacher, parent, babysitter, moral advisor, potty trainer, and just about everything else under the sun. And the people who are charged with this monumental task are given no authority over the situation, and no compensation for the extra burden.

Kids walk all over teachers on a daily basis, because they know they can get away with it. Parents think their kids are perfect, so they believe every lie that comes out of the kid's mouth.

No support from parents, even less support from administration, a pay scale that starts out okay but then goes nowhere for fifty years�it's a wonder anyone lasts more than five years in the profession.

Teachers spend four years in college learning all the pedagogy, then watch in awe as Principals and politicians make decisions that are in direct contrast to all that pedagogy. If they speak up, they get branded a troublemaker and find themselves in the basement classroom with no windows next year. Or laid off because they haven't been tenured yet.

Plenty of young, enthusiastic teachers try to design engaging lessons, only to be told by the powers that be that what they're doing is against school policy.

And don't even get me started on the legal issues. If I had thought about how easily I could have been sued on a daily basis when I was teaching, I would have gone nuts.

I guess what I'm saying here is that I think it would be great if kids could use PDAs in the classroom. I think a lot of teachers would have no problems with it, either. But school-wide bans on items like this are usually not created by the teachers. It's usually the Principal and VPs who come up with this kind of nonsense, because they want to make their jobs easier. Then they force-feed it to the teachers, who by contract are not allowed to publically speak out against the decision.

There are a lot of problems with our educational system. Blaming the teachers for everything is a real copout. The first thing we need and need fast are more responsible parents, and legislation that's actually based in pedagogy, not public opinion.

Then maybe teachers will feel putting in the extra effort will be worth it.

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mrjoec
www.mrjoec.com

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Re: Re: Should Palms be allowed in schools?

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckster


I think that the younger students (Junior High and below) see them mainly as a toy. When I was in high school (i graduated in 1997), we had to use TI-82 calculators. People made games for them, and they became toys. In a way, I think PDAs are a distraction for most kids (not all).

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I had a TI-85 back in high school. I loved that thing. I wrote all manner of programs for solving equations and even wrote a simple number-guessing game for those times when pre-cal got really boring.

I would give anything for TI to make a Springboard module like that. I don't even use my 85 anymore but I'd still get it just for the memories.

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James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Elkins Park, Pa
Posts: 577

Bertbert, I have to agree with you.

I was writing a long list of reasons why when my dad's laptop shut down for no apparent reason, and I don't feel like retyping all of them, seeing as it's just an agreement.

Anyway, I would not have survived last year without a visor (on the other hand, I could also say that I would have survived last year if I didn't have a visor . Depends how you look at it). I was so disorganized the year before, it was so much easier with one.

What do you do if a lot of kids in the school went and paid money for a pda, and the school bans it. Would that be fair?

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 67

PDAs in Chicagoland schools

I'm a teacher in the Chicagoland area (junior/senior high) and I feel that PDAs should be allowed. Some school district here have distributed them to all students (not mine .... Most high school students are quite disorganized and I think a pda would be great. as far as goofing around with them - all math kids have to buy a TI-whatever and they were always playing games on that in homeroom but they knew how to use it as a real tool when they needed.

just MHO...

Pete