Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Cedar Knolls, NJ
Posts: 38

After using the Visor Deluxe for several weeks and a TRGPro for several days, I have come to the conclusion that the battle for the true Palm power user resides between these two devices. Here's what my early conclusions are about the two:

Visor Pro's

- Designed by the original Palm Pilot team.

- Syncs using USB

- Expandable thru Springboard
architecture, 8MB flash memory is transparent to programs and end user. Third parties have made commitments to manufacture Springboards.

- Comes in spiffy colors

- Mac compatible out of the box

- 8MB of RAM

- Most bang per buck at $250.00

Visor Con's

- Handspring is a new company. Manufacturing and Shipping issues not sorted out yet

- The device has no built in Flash, OS is not replaceable without complete memory board replacement

- Springboard format is proprietary (but requires not licensing fee to developers)

- The sync port on Visor is incompatible with existing Palm III and PalmPilot peripherals

TRGpro pro's

- Designed and built by an established engineering firm and 3com / IBM businesss partner with a history of delivering good products

- uses industry standard CompactFlash expanison modules already in production for memory and periperhals (modem, ethernet, etc)

- Compactflash memory modules have much higher storage densities and are cheaper per meg than regular flash ROM (79.00 for 8MB springboard vs. 80.00 for 32 meg CF module). Supports IBM 340MB microdrive for immense storage requirements


- Compactflash modules can be read using USB CF card readers on PC and Macs, and have very fast transfer rates (over 1 meg a second), allowing you to dump programs and data to them VERY efficiently and quickly)

- The TRGpro has 2mb of onboard flash memory for OS updates and storing data

- The TRGpro like the Visor has 8mb of RAM

- The TRGpro has a superior speaker and audio

- The TRGpro's onboard CF backup software supports multiple backup sets, unlike the Visor's backup module

- The TRGpro is compatible with existijng Palm III peripherals

TRGpro cons:

- CF FAT file system requires Palm applications to be recoded in order to use it directly, otherwise you have to use bulilt-in CFPro utility to swap programs and data in and out of user RAM

- Syncs via serial cable and CF reader for PC/Mac is an additional $60-$90 cost to the user

- CF peripherals are not plug and play, they need drivers to be installed

- Same old Palm III form factor and grey case

- Mac compatability requires additional software

- $330.00 is a hell of a premium to pay for a palm IIIx with compactflash, and 80 bucks for a CF reader brings total cost to user over $400.00

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


------------------
Jason Perlow

Contributing Editor, PalmPower Magazine www.palmpower.com

Sr. Technical Editor, Windows CE Power www.windowscepower.com

Read My Articles at my home page:
www.argonautsystems.com

[This message has been edited by perlow (edited 12-10-1999).]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: bright side of the moon.
Posts: 996

ARGH!

I don't know if i should be pulling my hair out or smiling!
I went to TRGPRO's website and read the article at Palmpower and i'm worried...alittle.

Oh well, as they say "you have to jump into the river sooner or later because there's no point standing on the bank watching everything go by!"

Thanks for the comparison...i'll be watching both the TRG and Visor closely for the next few months.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Cedar Knolls, NJ
Posts: 38

Thanks for reading Fredlet's review. Next month, I'm doing a peice about add-on CF cards and software that is TRGpro compatible.

I think the Visor and the TRGpro are for different types of users, but it kind of annoys me there is so much divergence in the Palm hardware community now, I wish they could settle on a standard.

Maybe TRG will make a CF springboard for Visor? Who knows.

------------------
Jason Perlow

Contributing Editor, PalmPower Magazine
www.palmpower.com

Sr. Technical Editor, Windows CE Power
www.windowscepower.com

Read My Articles at my home page:

www.argonautsystems.com

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

The TRGPro seems like a great little machine. Unfortunately, nobody seems to care. Part of the reason I went with the Visor is partially because of the hype factor - if nobody buys the TRGPro then it won't have as much hardware/software support.

It's amazing how little information there is out there on the TRGPro. The geek types I know haven't even heard of it. If you check out the TRGPro boards, they have virtually no posters.

The Visor is also an "alternative" handheld, but it's so popular it can't help but succeed, even with all of their shipping problems. (Unless, of course, it proves to be a real lemon, which is a possibility.) As for the newly rejuvenated Apple crowd, they're totally in love with the Visor because of its out-of-the-box Mac compatibility.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 143

Jason, thanks for the comparison...some questions for you:
1) Are they shipping yet? Their web site still seems to be in advance orders mode...something that VC members are all too familiar with!
2) What does "Mac compatability requires additional software" mean? The TRG site makes it seem like serial hotsync should work with any platform that works with Palms
3) How does the user interface for moving apps in and out of CF compare to the File Mover approach on the Visor...the review of Flash Pro makes it look almost identical...is a version of Flash Pro what HS uses for the flash Springboard.

I hadn't checked out their stuff in a month or so since I thought that TRG was originally going to avoid the mass consumer market and focus on large-scale corporate customers.

It will be interesting to watch several things, including:
How fast software is recoded to use the CF-FAT file system...I have no idea how hard this will be...will Palm software start coming in Palm, Visor and TRG configurations?

How users of the CF hard disks report on effects on battery life...my impression is that this is the major drain on laptops.

For me, a Visor in the hand will have to do for a while...but this could be the start of some reallyexciting market competition! I really hope someone comes out with a CF adaptor Springboard; seems like it should be possible, but I'm not techie enough to really know.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Cedar Knolls, NJ
Posts: 38

1) Are they shipping yet? Their web site still seems to be in advance orders mode...something that VC members are all too familiar with!

They aren't shipping yet, and the unit I have is beta.


2) What does "Mac compatability requires additional software" mean? The TRG site makes it seem like serial hotsync should work with any platform that works with Palms

It will, but unlike the Visor, the TRG doesnt come with the Mac desktop software. Palm Computing sells it seperately.

3) How does the user interface for moving apps in and out of CF compare to the File Mover approach on the Visor...the review of Flash Pro makes it look almost identical...is a version of Flash Pro what HS uses for the flash Springboard

No, Handspring hasn't licensed Flashpro. Actually the TRGpro uses TWO different file mover apps, one for CompactFlash, called CFpro, and the other called Flashpro, which is used for the built-in 2mb of flash.

CFpro and Flashpro -are- very similar to File Mover, from a usability standpoint they are just as user friendly.

------------------
Jason Perlow

Contributing Editor, PalmPower Magazine
www.palmpower.com

Sr. Technical Editor, Windows CE Power
www.windowscepower.com

Read My Articles at my home page:

www.argonautsystems.com

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 1

Besides .wav files, can anything be read off the CF card directly without having to be transferred to onboard RAM? I'm specifically wondering about HanDbase .pdb's and Doc files?

JEP

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Cedar Knolls, NJ
Posts: 38

At this time, Actual Software's Multimail Pro's current beta is the only program that can -directly- offer CFM FAT support.

I store my DOC files and infrequently used programs on it and swap them into memory when I need to use them.

Aportis plans TRG support as soon as they get a production unit, as does Tealpoint.

------------------
Jason Perlow

Contributing Editor, PalmPower Magazine
www.palmpower.com

Sr. Technical Editor, Windows CE Power
www.windowscepower.com

Read My Articles at my home page:

www.argonautsystems.com

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 25

I heard that CF Flash modules are not Plug and Play.
-VISOR has the Godzilla Share of the Market
-I agree, A CF Springboard will be welcome by most 'Generation-VISOR'ers'
-Most important of all : THE Software guys have to get their act together and make their databases/ Docs's/ etc work right -off Flash ROM.- I will be waiting for that day
-Y 2000 willl be the year of the palm - Watch out for SONY, TRG evolve, Handspring Grow, COLOR, etc.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 62

The TRGPro is aimed at Corporate environments where customized apps and very large amounts of data may be required. Personally, I think that for $329 (?) + the hassle of dealing with CF cards isn't worth it. Other then a high "Cool Factor", having a 340MB Micro Drive isn't all that practical for a device with two AAA cells powering it. Since Handspring has forced Palm to drastically reduce their prices, I don't think corporate decision makers are going to go for a more expensive Palm that isn't even a Palm unless they have a specific need for a CF Device. Most of those apps that I can think of (industrial data collection) are already covered by Symbol and others.

The corporation I work for(60 k employees workwide and a huge IT/IM infrastucture)has an IM/IT policy for "Officially Supported" PDA's that specifies the IBM Version of the Palm Pilot since IBM does all of our desktop support (barf, hack, hack). And they suck at it too! (just thought I'd mention that!)

Anyway, I have my Graphite VDx and I love it. I would rather have a springboard slot since the possibilities are essentially limitless. CF offers what, memory storage, a modem, a network card and a micro drive plus a couple of other limited uses? I can have that and a lot more with a springboard slot. Just the already announced springboards make the Visor a far more attractive device.

Oh well, that is my 2 cents!

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

While I don't think the TRGPro will take over, I wouldn't underestimate the CF slot. Already there is a digital camera (!) that works in the slot (for the Casio E-100).