clulup
Member
Registered: Jan 2003
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Posts: 191 |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
Evidence? Or merely what you read in a book and took for granted. If you can show me evidence of just one animal that can definitely be proven to have "evolved" into another animal I'll listen. I'm betting you can't.
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Why should you "worry" about my children? Isn't that my responsibility? BTW "scientific methods" don't usually provide what you think they do for food. Good food is still produced with a lot of very old fashioned farming
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After your comment on plant breeding I now know that you really don't understand what the Theory of Evolution states. You're describing breeding that changes a characteristic in an existing plants offspring by breeding it with another plant so that you can bring out recessive genes and produce a plant with more desirable characteristics. Everything you do merely encourages what is already there to come to the surface.
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Evolution states that an animal/plant will evolve into a totally new animal/plant if given enough time, ie. a primate into a man WITHOUT any outside influence.
Those are two very different things.
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I could go on, but I have to meet my malnourished (forced to eat organically raised vegetables and free-range poultry) and unvaccinated (but strangely never ill) children at church where I plan to force them to play with other christian kids. (ok I'm joking about the forcing part, they love to play)
Let me clarify a few terms first: two animals (similar with plants) are considered being part of two different species in case they cannot produce fertile offspring when interbreeding.
Evolution is based on two phenomena: variation and selection. Let me give you an example out of my personal experience:
Take the bacterium Escherichia coli (E. coli for short) and let it grow in an appropriate medium (liquid). Let them grow happily. Then add the antibiotic spectinomycin, which kills Escherichia coli. The bacteria all stop growing and most of them die.
However, after a while you will see strong growth of bacteria again. Why is that, scientists have wondered and found out (after many experiments): The bacteria that grow are still E. coli, but invariably there is a tiny variation in their DNA: one of the bases in their 16R rDNA (gene) has changed (say there is a "G" instead of an "A"): a so called point mutation took place which led to a slightly different gene product to which spectinomycin can no longer "attach". This can easily be shown be determining the base sequence of the E. coli DNA in spectinomycin sensitve and spectinomycin resistant E. coli.
It can be shown just as easily, that point mutations (and also other sorts of mutations) happen all the time. Most of the variation is bad for the organism, but some of them lead to a *selective advantage*, which enables them to multiply faster under the prevailing conditions or to have more offspring, offsping which - cool enough - carry the same advantageous slightly variant DNA. That is evolution. It happens all the time, it can be (and is) observed in the test tube, in nature, in animals, plants, bacteria, viruses, everywhere, plain to see for those with eyes to see, ears to hear, and an open mind.
If e.g. the variation is strong, a group of animals is separated (e.g. by climatic change which leads to a mountain becoming an insurmountable barrier, continental drift, etc., variations may accumulate and lead to animals that cannot interbreed any more, i.e. two different species. Very simple, unless e.g. some book blocks the free flow of thoughts. Take man an shimpanzee. Their DNA is almost identical, but a major part in one of the chromosomes has changed its orientation. An effect that can be observed quite often in genetics. What I have described here has been written down in far better words in many places, try this one: http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/
Now to plant breeding: take good old wheat as only one example. It is basically a genetic monster containing the genomes of three (3) different species. It cannot interbreed with anything in nature. And yet it is the descendant of natural species, the product of variation and selection (by man, hence breeding). It is precisely what you are looking for: a new species that has evolved a few thousand years ago, in the hands of some of the first farmers on this world.
Now to organic farming: it is kind of romantic, but it has (among other shortcomings) one major flaw: it could only feed a very small part of the population of this world. It is a romatic luxury for a few (like you), who can always get other food in case their crop has been devastated by some fungus or another pest. There is organic farming in Third World Countries, but only because they cannot afford better means, and the result of that (malnutrition) in only too obvious in many countries.
Now to vaccination: according to the US Centers for Disease Control, about two in 100 reported cases of measles die (Mayo Clinic Summary). Why are your kids healthy and don't get e.g. the measles? Simple: because the vast majority of american kids (namely all of those who go to a "normal" school and are not "homeschooled" like yours) are vaccinated e.g. against measles. The parents of those kids are responsible, they - or their kids - take the very small risk that is associated with vaccination and thereby prevent an epidemic in the US. You go for a free ride, and you even seem to feel clever about it, mentioning how healthy your kids are. To be honest, I find that slightly disgusting.
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09-09-2003 04:18 AM
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