Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Posts: 10

well as the title says it allI recently recieved a visor delux as a graduation gift from my girlfriends family and it was broken, the screen shook in the case, I called handspring since she ordered it from there and they said they would send me a replacement, well after compairing the two units, reading stuff here and talking to their cs it is evident that they sent me a refurb (serial number, blue dot on sticker and old style battery cover). Yes the unit works fine but it is the whole principal of the thing, they spent good money expecting me to get a "new" unit not a refurb, this kind of upsets me since it was new and it wasn't like I broke it. I think that I am going to try to go to a store (best buy) and tell them it was a gift and see if they will exchange it for the same thing but if there are any more options I would be open to suggestion thanks



[This message has been edited by bozack (edited 08-02-2000).]

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

How do you know that it is a refurbished unit? Did it look liek a refurb to you? The Blue DOt simply means that the unit is free of the DRAM issue. Call Handspring CS and ask them.

Personally I think you are making a big deal out of nothing.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

Elementary, my dear Yardie. A refurbished unit can be detected by dusting for fingerprints. It all comes down to forensic testing, my friend.

I'm working on a module that has all of the goods that would make Dr. Lee proud.

Here's what it comes down to...
Some folks don't like human contact, and are disgusted at the thought that someone touched something that will be theirs.

I'm glad that my car was test driven before I bought it. I like the fact that someone got paid to make my Visor. Having a job is great

You believe that this whole thing is blown out of proportion? Agreed.

Is an adopted kid... a refurb?

There's an expression that goes.. if it aint broke don't fix it. Well what if it's broke?
I'm writing a letter to Handspring demanding that they liquify all used Visors.

I like my refurb... My used car... relationships with experienced women.. and so on and so on.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 170

quote:

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Originally posted by mrknowitall:
[my edit]...There's an expression that goes.. if it aint broke don't fix it...[my edit]I like my refurb... My used car... relationships with experienced women.. and so on and so on.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Posts: 10

it is not the fact that someone else touched it or whatever it is the principle.

How do I know it is a refurb? I called and asked first and they said yes it is and I compaired it to my first unit, the serial number is by far older and the battery door is not of the new design-

and no the blue dot does not mean tested free of the DRAM issue as pointed out by someone else in the general forum.

The thing that sucks is that this was intended to be a "new" gift not a refurb, I could see if I dropped it, scratched it, broke it or had it more than a month and something happened but this was as soon as I got it-the second I opened the box-

And referring to the comment before yes my "new" car was test driven too before I bought it but it would have been in much better shape if it had not been-no scratches on the interior, no dings on the doors, and it would have cost the same amount.

I am upset because the people who bought this for me "my girlfriend and her parents" expected me to get one thing and I ended up with something else, why should they or anyone else pay 249 with shipping 260 for a refurbished unit? am I the only one or doesnt that seem silly, they should at least give you a week before they send you a refurb, anything under a week and your guaranteed a new replacement, at least that is my 2c.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

Unfortunately, sending refurbs as replacements is common for young companies. They've got all those refurbs and still have new orders to fill. Now, a year from now if you got a refurb, I'd be irked.

Just my 2c.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Posts: 10

Well I guess that I forgot to mention that I am a field tecnician working at NASA HQ in washington DC and one of my collegues worked for 3com/Palm previously to this job and he said they follow the same practice, new company they are not.

I have dealt with all types of hardware and peripheral vendors and have never come across this type of policy. Oh well I guess I will just exchange it for a retail unit and advise anyone I know to go that route, then you have the security of knowing the store has a return/replacement policy

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 198

Bozack, I'm with you.

I don't know what you can do about it, but I agree that it sucks that your girlfriends parents (or whoever - it doesn't really matter) paid for a new product, and you ended up with a refurb one.

I understand Handspring's policy of replacing units with refurbs, and have no problem with it. But that shouldn't be the case in your case. It was apparently broken in the box, which is different than defective, and you should have gotten a new one.

No one, not one of you who is saying Bozack is making a big deal out of it, would pay full retail price for a refurbished item.

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Hmmmmmmmm......

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: South Lake, FL
Posts: 103

quote:

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Originally posted by mrknowitall:
I'm glad that my car was test driven before I bought it<snip>

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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

A defective car? haha.. warranty my friend.
Cars are a perfect example.. much in the same way that I'm a perfect poster!

If I buy a car, I may get a warranty. The Visor has a standard warranty.
If my car fails to perform, my warranty, my service guy or I will repair or replace the faulty parts of the car.
Replace it for an entirely new one? I don't know about that. Show me a dealership who will give you a new car.

My _point_ is that I prefer quality tested products, previously 'used' or not.
Does the 'refurb' work or not?

What some fail to understand is that a replacement may have never been 'used' (what some call 'new'), yet quality tested to enusre that it's in a desired condition. What would be the point of replacing a defective unit with another one? 'That' is what is 'unfair'.

Another point is that a 'new' (purchase of) one may not be the answer. Not a bad idea, a good shot, no doubt a good bet, but it could be defective too. That's technology for ya.

Nothing... no one is perfect....heehee

mr. kia

P.S. (I love PS's):

I haven't started my liquification demand letter, and I don't think I will. I came to my senses and realized that the service (people repairing stuff) industry gives people stuff to do, and make a living.. and I'm sure it drives economies too.

[This message has been edited by mrknowitall (edited 08-12-2000).]

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Posts: 10

seems mr know it all really doesn't know it all--in fact with new cars and warranties your dealer is required to replace any defective part on the vehicle with a brand new part until the first 50,000 miles, at which point your car is considered "used" or if the original owner sells it. So they might not be giving you a new car, however they are giving you new components.

Handspring is taking your whole brand new visor and giving you someone elses quality tested reject when you paid full retail price for a new unit.

this is obviously not the same.

if handspring repaired the unit with new components and sent it back (something I think they should be doing instead) then you can compair.

so in essence the new/used car scenereo mentioned earlier is an exact comparison to handsprings policy.

-Your new car did not work correctly
Your new handspring did not work correctly

-They give you a used car that works correctly

Handspring Gives you a used visor that works correctly

-The used car may work but it is old so potential problems may arise due to fatigue

The new visor may work but it is old and electrical connections degrade with time and use so it may fail in the near future

The point really is that no one in their right mind would knowingly pay top dollar for a refurbished product, working or not, that is just foolish (there is a reason they call it refurbished).

if you had the same situation that I did and you stuck with it, then that was your choice and I feel sorry that you got suckered for 260 for a refurb but I for one will not stand to get short changed in any way.

[This message has been edited by bozack (edited 08-13-2000).]

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 99

I agree with Bozack, getting a refurb to relace a new unit is a bummer, mainly because after reading a lot of post on this subject people seem to have a lot of problems with refurbs, one person even said he was on his fifth refurb !!!

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: South Lake, FL
Posts: 103

quote:

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Originally posted by mrknowitall:
Show me a dealership who will give you a new car.

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'Fraid that was a clear miss on the point, mr. KIA (hey, isn't that a car? ) . I was not actually implying that a defective car is replaced with an entirely new one - it was just an illustration. O.K., let's compare apples to apples... You buy a brand-spankin' new amplifier and find that, out of the box, the bass control doesn't work. The dealer replaces the one-day-old amp with one that someone else brought in because of a component being blown out due to lightning - but that component had been repaired. Is that fair? Or could there be other components that have been weakened and therefore not as likely to last?




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I doubt, therefore I might be.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

If Handspring would repair your Visor and send it back to you, don't you think that would take some time? I could only imagine the posts - "I send my Visor in two days ago, and they're telling me that I wont get it back for another week..." The point your missing is that they are sending you a replacement Visor within a day or two. Kudos to Handspring.

I broke my Visor and received a replacement the next day. I bought mine back in November. Chances are that the replacement I receive two weeks ago is newer than my old Visor, refurbishe or not. I'm extremely happy with it, and the screen seems to have better resolution than my last one.

As for the people on their 5th Visor, take note as to some of the reasons they returned the past Visors - scratches on screen, minor cracks in plastic. C'mon people when you use something every day for an hour or two, guess what THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME WEAR AND TEAR!!!! Live with it. These things are made of plastic and are not meant to be bomb proof. Get a screen protector, buff the surface, and understand that minor cracks in the plastic do not affect the usability of the Visor.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

HAHAHA, Bozack I hope I know about car warranties, or I wouldn't be driving my car now. Let me tell you something about cars. Once you drive them off a lot of a dealership they are 'used', not as soon as something goes wrong with them.
My example is not incorrect, neither is yours. You say it yourself:

quote:

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So they might not be giving you a new car, however they are giving you new components.

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I think I grasped that concept and drove it over the wall in left field.

quote:

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Handspring is taking your whole brand new visor and giving you someone elses quality tested reject when you paid full retail price for a new unit.

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Not necessarily. I know of a few people who returned their Visor without ever opening the box. I'm sure as a precaution Handspring wants to test for the DRAM issue before sending these out to someone else.... like me

If there's something wrong with it, it needs to be fixed just like the car. Am I wrong? You imply that a car is not new if it does not have it's original components. Fair enough, but are you going to complain to a car manufacturer if a part under warranty goes faulty? What then is the point of the warranty, or any warranty for that matter?
Why would they give you a 'reject'? To piss you off?
Didn't you get your Visor as a gift? The both of us should only be so grateful. I did some homework. Perhaps before you complain to Handspring you should check out their terms of sale which includes acceptance of the warranty. Your family agreed to this:
http://www.handspring.com/support/ug_vi_warranty.asp

Here's Palm's...
http://www.palm.com/support/service.html

and for the benefit of those without Adobe Acrobat... when I checked this out on August 13, they say:

quote:

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Palm Computing's sole obligation under this express warranty shall be, at Palm Computing's option and expense, to replace the product or part with a comparable product or part, repair the product or part...

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Almost as if it was written by the same person 'or' it is an industry umm.. standard or practice.

linguas, you say:

quote:

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O.K., let's compare apples to apples... You buy a brand-spankin' new amplifier and find that, out of the box, the bass control doesn't work. The dealer replaces the one-day-old amp with one that someone else brought in because of a component being blown out due to lightning - but that component had been repaired. Is that fair?

---

What do you mean 'fair'? I'm willing to bet that your dealer does not bother to tell you about the lightning damage in fear of losing the original sale.
Note also that it is not his/her fault that the amp blew out due to lightning. (these products' guides normally advise that you avoid use during storms.)
It may; however, be his/her 'fault' for repairing and making it useful again.
In our case we have a company like Handspring who is 'upfront' (see warranty) about the likelihood of repaired components.

It's much easier to look at this from a business perspective if you've experienced retail and/or owned your own business.

Here's a bottom line. If you're within your money back guarantee, return it and get a new order if you feel that will make the world a better place.

By the way, My 'new' iron rocks It presses my clothes!
This seems to be a debate not between functioning and non-functioning, but between old and new. My granny is still kickin and she makes great meals, on the other hand, my ex was the queen of rice a roni. If she was a character in Shakespeare, she'd be Lady McFood.. Heehee.. this thread has been fun. Thanks guys.

Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

I'm not going to say why only because I would likely say it in such a way that would allow this post to be picked apart line by line and turned around in some originally unintended direction.

But I _will_ say that I'm with bozack on this one. If I paid full price and it was broken in the box I'd want a new one in exchange. Not a used one. I'd feel ripped as well.

Cheers,
Ark.

Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 209

So, what's the update on this soap opera? 15 or so days have passed and I wouldn't want to waste the year's worth of the original warranty dickering about this issue.

Either call them up and challenge the Handspring Limited Warranty to obtain a brand-spankin' new, never been touched, etc. unit, roll over with their statement that "Replacement products or parts may be new or reconditioned", accept what you have, or get your money back.

Or, I guess invoke the American Way and take them court (and then watch it get thrown out as I seem to recall the language present in today's limited warranties was a result of something similar several years ago).

If you haven't called HS yet, all I can suggest to get a more favorable position is to be cordial with them. Dropping tidbits that you're associated with rocket scientists or you have a friend that used to work at Palm probably will just pissed them off (or make them think you're really a goofball) and they may not be willing to budge from the HS warranty statement (remember-- it is at their option, legally).

Start off nice and then play hardball if you don't get the correct satisfaction-- that's where that kind of Adam Henry stuff helps as you can say, "hey, I tried to be fair on my end but if you want to play tough..." etc. etc.

[This message has been edited by ProjectZero (edited 08-17-2000).]

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

Heheh ProjectZero. As if that will work. I still think bozark is making a big deal out of nothing. New or used, he has a working that have a one year warranty. COme to think of it, his unit is probably better than the my new DRAM unit. Why? Because unlike mine, it does not have the DRAM issue.

Settled for the patch.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Posts: 10

took the american way out

if you all want to know what happened I decided to buy a new retail unit and return my refurb visor. Not the most ethical thing but effective, and no questions asked. Handspring was holding strong to their policy so now they will have to rma a refurb from a retail store...

__________________
semper ubi sub ubi

Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 3

Refurbs is common in the PDA market. Even PALM sends out refurbs. Unfortunately, some consumers are just not informed.

Handspring, is a good company with a great product. The PDA consumers are a bunch of whinners who cry about every little thing. You should be glad that Handspring provides a great warranty policy. They ship the thing for free. Yes, they can't promise a new unit; however, you may ask for a new one.

__________________
Looking in from the outside.