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Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Visor Pro as a "Dinosaur"

This string began as a response to another thread. Halfway through I thought it worthy of its own heading

quote:
Originally posted by Digisane
Reality check:

...My Visor Pro has instantly become obsolete with almost no other form of expansion because of that...(because of the discountinuence of the Springboard)�

Your Visor Pro is no more or less obsolete than last year's computer, automobile, or television. Turn the thing on and it works (unless it has been damaged) the same way it did when it was new. You bought it to provide access to contacts, email, etc. and it still does those things very effectively.

I carry around a VPL, and recently purchased a cable to connect it to my Kyocera digital phone. Now I can check my email remotely, surf the web, update my Avantgo on the go. Basically I have all the functionality of a new Treo for $130 (the used VPL cost me $100 on eBay and the cable was $30).

I was at a conference yesterday and during lunch I whipped out my phone and little cable and downloaded my email. A small group of wannabes gathered around to pepper me with questions. Yes, I was the alpha geek with an almost three year old device.

The overwhelming majority of my colleagues who have a Palm or Pocket PC device use it for managing their calanders, and maybe for its integrated email (not to access it mind you, but simply to have it handy). They have never heard of Avantgo (until I show it off), they don't have Documents to Go loaded (it comes free with most new Palms), and they haven't added memory or even noticed the expansion slot. Frankly, the masses don't care much for functionality.

One mistake that Handspring made, and continues to make, is working with a limited number of wireless service providers. I live in the northeast, and other than the Treo 90 there is no Treo available to me because they don't offer one with CPDP capability. Nor is there Sprint PCS service here. So, I am not a candidate for the Treo, or for the VisorPhone module (which I would love to have) despite having waited over two years for either service to arrive. And yet I have digital cellular with Verizon...so...its not as though being in the boonies is an exceptable excuse.

Have your fun bashing Handspring's business model...but ultimately it is hardly responsible for its demise. Palm is hanging by a thread and Sony's handheld line exists but for the fact it is a monster consumer products conglomerate. I submit that if Handspring had access to a crystal ball two years ago, that today they wouldn't be in a remarkably better position. Not to say mistakes haven't been made, but there is no sense fussing about the wiper blades when the front window has been completely blown out.

Handspring has been financially winding down for six months now. I suspect we will see them subsumed by the likes of Sprint or someone similar, then drift into the same corporate ether as Lotus corporation. Then I will be left with a small drawer full of discount modules (including the still longed for Magellan GPS module) and perhaps a couple of spare VPLs...or maybe even a Pro to use to their fullest until the interation of Windows arrives that no longer supports the software.

Hey, here's a hint for those who consider their Handspring products to be dinosaurs...just add an OmniRemote module ($50 new, $25 on eBay) and you will have a dedicated progammable remote control with a functionality that equals devices still costing over $200. Leave it on the coffee table and use the plastic cover as a coaster!

Last edited by Keefer Lucas on 09-27-2002 at 01:52 AM

09-27-2002 01:46 AM

dampeoples
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 832

Mr. Lucas,
The problem with this post is that you are making sense. Stop that.

My Orange Deluxe works very well too.

09-27-2002 10:43 AM

rnunnink
Member

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Sayre, PA
Posts: 39

I use my Neo everyday. I go to school and type in notes using my stowaway keyboard and wordsmith. My shopping list is always with me using handyshopper. I read my email, the New York times and a new novel everyday. My cycling log tells me how many miles I haven't riden this month (not enough). The only other piece of technology I use more is my car and ok my TV. It'll be a sad day when palm devices go away, but this thing works so well that I can see myself still using it 20 years from now. By that time Visorccentral will kinda be like the Volkswagen bus website but hey even volkswagen is reissuing the bus next year. I like it when I find a new use for my Visor and miss the old days of new springboards and new killer apps. Hopefully this thing will be like the telephone or the TV and 60-90 years after their invention they are still recognizable to their own inventors.

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09-30-2002 07:22 PM

wizardb
Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Collierville(Memphis) TN
Posts: 33

Good for you. My Platinum served me well for some time. I just moved to the Prism recently because I wanted color. I wanted color for two reasons===better to play games with and easier to read with my vision problems. I don't consider my Prism obsolete but rather I got one heck of a great deal on a very good handheld. Most of the features which drive the prices up on the new models are features I do not use and don't plan on using. I purchased my first PDA to keep ohone numbers, appointments and notes at hand. Great side benefits are the games, ebooks and my shopping list. That's what I need, that's what I've got and I stay very happy with my Prism.

09-30-2002 11:28 PM

J. Kevin Wolfe
Member

Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 11

And one of the best advantages right now is that springboards have never been cheaper. Eyemodule 2 for $50. Backup card $10, both at staples. Yeah, they've been discontinued and no more are in development, but you can do as much or more with discounted springboards as you can with newer machines. Handspring thought so far ahead, other companies are strill trying to catch up to your dinosaur.

10-04-2002 02:31 PM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

I have argued for years that Handspring's biggest problem is exactly the same problem that palm and Sony have- the average person has no clue about PDAs.

There is almost no marketting aimed at educating the public as to what the devices are or can do for a person- yet we are beseiged by ads teaching us about the wonders of cell phones- almost everyone knows that you can play games, send text messages, surf the net, and more on cell phones, but almost no one knows that you can do most of this and a lot more on a PDA.

Most PDA-intensive users I know are basically computer heads to one degree or another, and their PDA is mostly a portable extension of the computer.

What seems to be needed is some advertising or other mechanism to educate the non-computer people that this is a cool device that will help them a lot and does not need any special computer skills or interest to use.

To put it another way, I think they are doing a decent job of intensive marketing to a specific target (people like us), but a poor job of marketing to the mass market.

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Do what you can, with what you have, where you are at!

10-04-2002 04:33 PM

J. Kevin Wolfe
Member

Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 11

Here here!

A recent survey shows that 90% of Palm users don't install 3rd party software. So 10% of us are fanatics and everybody else uses their addressbook and calendar only. Since the core user base was so small, that's probably the reason why springboards didn't do so well.

Incidentally, the best education experience is for each of us fanatics to show novice users how much more their PDA can do to enrich their life. In no time they become curious and become fanataics too.

10-04-2002 04:40 PM

wizardb
Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Collierville(Memphis) TN
Posts: 33

How true your comments on poor marketing. Actually I got hooked on PDA's quite by accident I had purchased a Franklin electronic Bible and was visiting their web site looking for a card with a second translation. I had also read a little bit about the coming development of ebooks and that interested me. In visiting Franklin's web site I saw a promotion about the Bookman. Got tired waiting for it and went looking at alternates starting with Palm. I was an intensive user of a paper organizer at the time and carried my pack of calendar, phone book, note pad etc etc etc everywhere.

One thing led to another and I retired my paper organizer for the PDA. I think a lot of peole are intimidate my the "little electronic thing" with that--what do ya call it--stylus??? I'm happy to point out the benefits of a pda whenever anybody asks and to their dismay even when they don't ask. I love toys and electronics and I'm a heavy computer user--but one of the best devices to come along in years I think is the pda.

Oh yea--thank goodness Franklin took so long getting the Bookman to market. I hate to think I could hae missed out on all the advantages beyond ebooks.

10-04-2002 05:22 PM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
What seems to be needed is some advertising or other mechanism to educate the non-computer people that this is a cool device that will help them a lot and does not need any special computer skills or interest to use.

One of the reasons I am no more enthusiastic about Sony than I am Palm or Handspring is that they seem to be selling the Clie as an entertainment device rather than a business tool.

If you do business in an information and/or schedule intensive line of work consider this: the next time you go to a staff meeting look around and see how many Dayplanners you see, and how many pamphlets, manuals and reports you see. Too damn many. If I were the CEO of a company who was ordered to eliminate 20% of my employees in a cost saving effort I would call a meeting of senior managers and send all who were not using a PDA home.

During an annual review early in my career I was once admonished for not keeping a neat schedule. I never was a dayplanner kind of guy. Yet (ten years later), my schedule keeping in Outlook is immaculate. Same with my office vs. my hard drive. The office is a mess, my computer runs at optimum efficiency. Everything I need is filed neatly on both my hard drive, and (via Documents to Go) on my Visor as well.

I was once questioned about what would happen if I ever lost my PDA (security is not an issue, unless someone was concerned about boring an unsuspecting thief to death) and I shot back "order a new one, set it in the cradle, and restore everything with one Hotsynch".

So, I think Madkins is 110% right. PDA marketers don't have a clue how to promote their products. Add an MP3 player to attract the kids, integrate a camera to attract the voyeurs, bundle a third party app to access word processing and spreadsheets to attract the value crowd. Business crowd? How to appeal to them? They don't know because between the dressed in black Madison Avenue advertisers and the sneaker and shorts wearing geek in Silicone Valley have no friggin idea what business is outside the advertising and tech industry....

10-05-2002 02:49 AM

Digisane
Member

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: By the toilet.
Posts: 174

Re: Visor Pro as a "Dinosaur"

Re-read that post.

Springboards are no longer being sold here (asia). They are gone. Even if you ask for it. (unless you ordered from the states, of course.)

While I still use my Pro for contacts and all that usual stuff, I cannot use it for something else i'd like, like Voice Recording, for example.

My Pro is no longer expandable, at least not efficiently by having to go through ordering and waiting for deliveries and charges and stuff like that. It's kinda like tires are no longer manufactured for your car (and you have to get them through ebay). Or the industry no longer selling any CD-Rs for your CD-burner. Or suddenly fossil fuel is replaced with some other form of fuel. You get the idea. You're stuck with what you have. As for the Visor, you can still use it, but that's having something that has less potential than it should, plus all the weight and mass that goes with it (and that unused built-in microphone on the bottom). At this moment, I would prefer an Edge or a Sony. The springboard slots just take up too much unused space and weight, EVEN if i want to use it up. That seems like such a big waste.

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
Hey, here's a hint for those who consider their Handspring products to be dinosaurs...just add an OmniRemote module ($50 new, $25 on eBay) and you will have a dedicated progammable remote control with a functionality that equals devices still costing over $200. Leave it on the coffee table and use the plastic cover as a coaster!

By the way, I use floppies or scratched CD-Rs as coasters (cheaper alternative). The plastic cover has never left its plastic bag since day one, and i don't intend to take it out anytime soon. Something to do with being obsessed with keeping a shiny smudge-free cover.

---------

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I'm just a dreamer..

Last edited by Digisane on 10-06-2002 at 06:52 PM

10-06-2002 06:36 PM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Re: Re: Visor Pro as a "Dinosaur"

quote:
Originally posted by Digisane
Re-read that post.

While I still use my Pro for contacts and all that usual stuff, I cannot use it for something else i'd like, like Voice Recording, for example.

It's kinda like tires are no longer manufactured for your car. You're stuck with what you have.

A number of voice recording modules are in fact still available (exotic location not entirely being relevant). See http://www.visorcentral.com/content.../detail-37.htm.

And unlike tires no longer being manufactured for your car, it is not as though your modules are becoming any less reliable with age...my two year old OmniRemote functions much more reliably than, say, a two year old pair of Michelins. I am no more or less annoyed about Handspring's discontinuence of the Springboard than I was about Gateway's discontinuence of 5.25" floppy drives as an option on desktop systems back in 1994.

Its not as though a PDA with Palm OS 3.5 is going to slowly bore a hole through your breast pocket and into your chest cavity...in fact OS 3.5 still has atleast two more years of software relevance to it.

10-06-2002 06:52 PM

Digisane
Member

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: By the toilet.
Posts: 174

Weird marketing strategy.

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas

One of the reasons I am no more enthusiastic about Sony than I am Palm or Handspring is that they seem to be selling the Clie as an entertainment device rather than a business tool.

That marketing strategy seems to be the case only because people who are willing to buy these sort of things (majority) like to be "ahead" and flashy and cool. It works to get people to part with their money as we can all probably see. And having a built-in remote functionality for a Sony TV isn't too bad. Not a Sony TV? Go buy one, so it'll work. Yeah...

In my case, however, I'm attracted to the voice recording and playback and that fact that your Clie would look like a removable disk on your computer once you plug it in, plus the slimmer-than-Visors-dimension. All that other feature is just an added bonus to me.

If anything, here's an even weirder marketing strategy i've seen;

There was this Camry advert running on TV some time ago over here that shows a woman turned on by a man who's driving a Camry. I won't give the details of the ad, but - IT'S A CAMRY!!! IT'S A FAMILY CAR. That ad might work if the product is a sports car or something like that, but hell, it's like promoting family men to get a mistress or something.

And people still buy that car. Does wonders for Toyota's bank account too.

__________________
I'm just a dreamer..

10-06-2002 07:08 PM

Digisane
Member

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: By the toilet.
Posts: 174

Re: Re: Re: Visor Pro as a "Dinosaur"

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
A number of voice recording modules are in fact still available (exotic location not entirely being relevant). See http://www.visorcentral.com/content.../detail-37.htm.

I know, but what good does that do when the a local supplier doesn't deal with them anymore? Remember, I probably wouldnt be saying all that if I lived in the U.S.

quote:

And unlike tires no longer being manufactured for your car, it is not as though your modules are becoming any less reliable with age...my two year old OmniRemote functions much more reliably than, say, a two year old pair of Michelins. I am no more or less annoyed about Handspring's discontinuence of the Springboard than I was about Gateway's discontinuence of 5.25" floppy drives as an option on desktop systems back in 1994.

I was trying to find something that has a similar situation, but it's hard to come up with one.

Ok, how about this:

Making computers come with floppy drives (assuming flopp drives are new technology) then and kill off the floppy drives 2 years later, just as software companies are using the floppies to distribute their software.

__________________
I'm just a dreamer..

10-06-2002 07:20 PM

wizardb
Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Collierville(Memphis) TN
Posts: 33

Well I ust can't keep from putting in my two cents. Anybody remember 8 track tapes and how about Sony's Beta Max. No wonder electronic manufacturers are so profitable. They make a product that they replace with a better product every six months. Kind of like a perpetual motion machine.

10-06-2002 09:04 PM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

quote:
Originally posted by wizardb
Anybody remember 8 track tapes and how about Sony's Beta Max. No wonder electronic manufacturers are so profitable. They make a product that they replace with a better product every six months. Kind of like a perpetual motion machine.

Yeah, and if you plug your 8 Track or Betamax machine into your stereo receiver or television they will still work.

If VW stopped making the new Beetle tomorrow would hundreds of thousands of Beetle owners rush to trade into a vehicle with a future? Or course not, you buy a car for the utility of it....ultimately the same reason you purchase a PDA. Generally speaking you purchase the product based on the need you have today. Some flexibility for use in the future is all part of the rationalization we make when we justify a $200 product in a world full of starving children.

10-07-2002 01:54 AM

Uncle Roger
Member

Registered: May 2001
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posts: 90

Re: Re: Visor Pro as a "Dinosaur"

quote:
Originally posted by Digisane
It's kinda like tires are no longer manufactured for your car (and you have to get them through ebay).

No, it's more like you can still get gas for your car (batteries for your visor), but that spiffy CD changer that you didn't get is no longer available, so you have to get by with your AM/FM/Cassette deck.

Your visor still does everything it originally did, including everything you originally bought it to do.

No, it doesn't do wireless e-mail, and you may not be able to upgrade it to do so. It doesn't hotsync via firewire, and it won't. It won't do a lot of things no one has thought up yet. But it still does what it always did.

10-07-2002 08:21 AM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

Re: Weird marketing strategy.

quote:
Originally posted by Digisane

(snip) And having a built-in remote functionality for a Sony TV isn't too bad. Not a Sony TV? Go buy one, so it'll work. Yeah...(snip)

Sony's built-in remote on some Clie's works with a variety of brands. It does just fine with my Sharp TV, Sanyo VCR and RCA DVD player. In fact, these codes were all built in and took just one or two buttons to pull up internal codes. Now, every feature available on my remotes is available on my PDA, including the relatively obscure features I never bothered programming in with OmniRemote.

Of course, the Sony remote cannot quite handle the odd stuff that makes OmniRemote fun- my Bose radio, my Furby, etc.!

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10-07-2002 03:17 PM

Madkins007
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Nebraska- the Good life
Posts: 695

Re: Re: Re: Visor Pro as a "Dinosaur"

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Roger

(snip) Your visor still does everything it originally did, including everything you originally bought it to do.

No, it doesn't do wireless e-mail, and you may not be able to upgrade it to do so. It doesn't hotsync via firewire, and it won't. It won't do a lot of things no one has thought up yet. But it still does what it always did.

And this applies to a lot of things (as your examples and Lucas mentioned!)

I have some co-workers using Palm III's (not IIIc's or anything, just the original Palm OS 3, 2 mb 'III')- and they still do everything that the owner needs. Granted, these are not high-tech power users like most of us tend to be, but the Palm III keeps their schedule, plays some games, does e-books, etc. even though they are ancient by PDA standards.

Somehow, we as a culture (I don't know if this is unique to America or not) have been tricked into thinking that something that is not new is worthless. We are literally browbeaten to buy the newest cars, fashions, music, catch phrases, etc. and told that our old stuff is ancient, irrelevant, obsolete. Keeping it will make us outcasts, unpopular, unsexy, or somehow not 'with it'.

(Allowances are made for SOME items that society deems as 'classic' or 'retro'- but this is still 'them' telling us what to like!)

[Stepping up to soapbox]
Personally I am fascinated and repulsed by examples of the media telling us what we should like or not like. Women shaving underarms and legs was a fad created by clever ads placed by various razor companies. Perfect lawns with no clover was foisted on us by Scott seed company when they figured out a way to keep clover seeds out of their seed mixes- even though clover is GOOD for your lawn. Should you smell or not? Sports gear and drink ads say so, deodorant ads say not to. What color are teeth supposed to be? Many companies are spending lots of money to preach that they should be paper white, even though you have to use harsh chemicals to accomplish this.
[Stepping back off]

The media has a lot of power, deserved or not. I wish they would stop the empty ads of cars driving fast in pristine deserts- which tells us nothing about the actual car's reliability, performance, or even comfort (if the ad is even a car ad)- and more ads on how we can really live a better lifes using products and services available to us.

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Do what you can, with what you have, where you are at!

10-07-2002 03:33 PM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Re: Re: Re: Visor Pro as a "Dinosaur"

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Roger

No, it doesn't do wireless e-mail...

My VPL does wireless email just fine with a $28 Gomadic cable to my Kyocera 6035a. And it does remote control with the OmniRemote module, which is still widely available. And, somewhat remarkably, it can do both simultaneously as the Gomadic Cable connects to the hotsych connector and not the Springboard slot.

And if I had the gumption to set up a Wi-Fi network I could access everything wirelessly with a Springboard module (now down to less than $80 on eBay, about $120 firsthand).

10-08-2002 12:14 AM

calyth
Member

Registered: Sep 2002
Location:
Posts: 17

It's pretty sad to see that Visor is kind of going under.
I've just got my Visor Deluxe recently and definately it has improve my life in a way. I now can write thoughts down (especially for school) so that I don't forget details. I note things down on the to do list whem I'm asked to do something. I keep digital copies of assignment requirements so that I don't have to wait for my printer to print it. I could write an email if I really wanted to in the Visor. And so far all these are function built into the visor.
I'd love to get the MP3 module on it. Even though it's no longer being develope and the local staples ran out of stock for them. It would be nice to try and burn those NiMH batteries.
As to the comments about power PDA users being power computer user, I couldn't agree more. I'm a computer head. If I have the time I'd set my linux partitions right, get the 3rd party palm hotsync software on it, and run linux instead (after I get my dad's computer with internet). IMO ordinary people could really use quite a bit of the basic functions of a PDA, and not to mention the extra functions provided by the Springboard. Too bad Handspring ditched the springboard idea when they're making their Treos.

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10-08-2002 11:35 AM

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