Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

I'm sorry.
Just tryin' t'keep the board lively. (As William Hurt said in "The Big Chill.")
Eh, I know I'm gonna get the crap kicked out of me in this thread -- but have at it; I'm bored, and couldn't help myself....
(Here's to still wishing for that SB, tho.)

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"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: The Matrix
Posts: 718

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony came out with a tv tuner for the clie

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-Mikedemo
It's all about how you spend the money.

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

Why do so many people want this?

Why do so many people here on VC want a TV Springboard module? In every discussion I've seen on VC since June 2000, this is by far the most requested SB module. Why?

I can't really see why so many people would want this. Here is my thinking:

1) Over-the-air TV reception on mobile TVs has always been terrible. Even in highly populated areas.
2) Even LCD TVs consume a lot of power. The needed rechargable battery for a TV SB module would be huge.
3) The TV module itself would be rather large even with modern technology.
4) What would watch? The percentage of TV that I watch that is broadcast over-the-air is about 5%. I mostly watch cable channels. You can't get cable on a SB TV module. I know that I am not your "typical viewer" but there hardly anything really good on broadcast TV.
5) Do people want to use such a module to watch TV at work? This could easily get you fired.
6) I assume that a person that wants a SB TV module will use it away from home. So that would be durring the day. What is on in the daytime that is even remotely worth watching? Soaps?

I can see why a small number of people would like a TV SB module, but this many? Please explain!

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: 'braska
Posts: 211

I know something like that would be a hit in Japan. When I was there, the LCD screen for the GPS navigation system also included a TV tuner.

Unlike the in the States, I think a lot of the TV in over air, not cable.

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www.jphillips66.org

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

Re: Why do so many people want this?

quote:

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Originally posted by MPM
Why do so many people here on VC want a TV Springboard module? In every discussion I've seen on VC since June 2000, this is by far the most requested SB module. Why?

I can't really see why so many people would want this. Here is my thinking:

....

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Gee, I hate to admit it, but I've never really given as much thought into the analysis of it all as you have here. You're right, esp. during the day, TV's DEAD!!! And cable wallops it.
Sad to say, but prob. the #1 reason is only ... that it would be really kewwwwwwl! Pathetic, eh? But at least I'm not alone, if it's the #1 SB everyone wants.
I guess not everything in life is reducible to reason, as hard as that is to admit. But if that's what the "Invisible Hand" wants (w/apologies to Adam Smith), that's what the I.H. should get!

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"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

And wouldn't it just be the ultimate "shut up" to obnoxious iPaq users if, say, the lowly HS Solo could pull in TV, 24/7 (even if it's crap) ... and all the iPaq-ers could do was "download TV/movies," etc. to "try" to compete?
I'd be in hog heaven....

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"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Registered: May 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1429

If you could do it for $99, and make it work with all visors, I'm there!!!!

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-miradu

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: El Segundo,CA
Posts: 374

It might be better to stream video.

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My Treo has more memory than I do.

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

"If you could do it for $99, and make it work with all visors, I'm there!!!!"
============
See!!!

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"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 714

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
all the iPaq-ers could do was "download TV/movies," etc.

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Matt Nichols
[email protected]

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

TV Tuner Card nice but Streaming content better

It would be really nice to be able to stream audio and video directly from the net when on the go. Firepad is making tiny steps in that direction with their Fireviewer suite.

Registered: May 2001
Location:
Posts: 16

Video in on the Springboard? Naaah....

Maybe the O'Reilly Palm Programming book is affecting my brain, but I'm really starting to agree with Palm's idea of the PalmOS devices as "tentacles" from the desktop, a carrier of data. (That's a quote from the founder of Handspring as well.) As such, I don't think a video in on the Handspring is necessary, especially since you'd have to compress the hell out of the video in more or less real-time (not a job for a 16-33 mhz machine IMHO).

Instead, here's what I suggest.
Build the aforementioned A/V module, but make it playback-only. Stereo headphone jack, PalmOS software to view video, and a memory card slot (I'd prefer CompactFlash, but that's just because everything I own uses it--SmartMedia is probably fine as well). In the Springboard module, we'd either have a cheap decode-only video codec (MPEG2?) or seriously optimized software to do the same function.

The process would be as follows.
1. Set up your TiVo or computer to record the shows you want. (You'll have to figure out how to get them to the computer from the TiVo. *grin*)
2. Scale them to the smaller screen and ompress them. Preferably, use a codec with good compression, difficult encode, easy decode (such as wavelet or JPEG2000).
3. Conduit them to the Handspring, storing them on the RAM in the card.
4. Play.

Anyone have any figures on how many megs per minute we'd be looking at for, say, 160x160 2-bit video at 15-24 frames per second with decent stereo or mono sound?

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 287

I think that was my original idea

I would like to see this SB and I guess it would be called The Pocket-TV module. For poeple that say that there is nothing to watch or regular TV, let me tell you something, "I don't have cable." I guess the TV programs in NYC are not bad. Yes, I want my Pocket-TV. Some times I'm on the bus and I would like to have a small TV or when I am having lunch at work or at school.

Al

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It all started way back in February 2000 with a Blue VDX.

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 287

I forgot to mention that the World Cup of Soccer is coming soon and that News are very important for me.

Al

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It all started way back in February 2000 with a Blue VDX.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

... and you never know when a good infomercial will be on. It's better to be always ready!
On a serious note, I really can't see what the module would be worth other than a 'wow' factor. Aren't there mini TVs already available cheap? How many people already have them?
99.9% of what's out there being broadcast (inc. cable) is crap. It's just being shown so that you and I will be exposed many (MANY) times to an advertisers message. This also includes PBS now. I haven't used my TV for anything other than watching movies with my VCR in 7 years. My kids watch about a movie a week. Instead of getting spoonfed ad crap, they are DOING things, or reading. I guess if you're a diehard sports fan it would have some use, but to watch "The Price is Right", "General Hospital", or "Survivor"?
All I have to say is, " The humanity....!"

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 287

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
On a serious note, I really can't see what the module would be worth other than a 'wow' factor. Aren't there mini TVs already available cheap? How many people already have them?

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It all started way back in February 2000 with a Blue VDX.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

I think you missed my point. I didn't say people wouldn't buy the darn thing, I just don't think that there's much use for it. Where could you use it? TV watching is a passive experience, requiring your full attention. You can watch TV on a bus, between classes, etc. How much time does the average Visor user have to waste. To justify buying it most people would have to carry it around every waking moment, and how much control do you have over the content? MP3 players can be used while doing other things, ie; reading, driving, walking, etc. and you control the content. An AM/FM module would be as usable as a MP3 player, with less control over content, but still much more usable than a TV tuner. A digital camera is a tool that you decide whether is useful for you- not a pure entertainment toy.
Developers of products like this are in it for profit, other than an initial "Wow" factor, what would a module like this accomplish? It would probably be as large as the Visor itself and be a battery hog. (Look at the smallest TV you can find, remove the volume taken up by the screen and you're looking at a possible size for you module.)
How many of these would be bought and end up in a drawer less than a month later?
I think the actual (meaning that they would actually buy it as opposed to saying they would like to see it come out) Visor owning audience for this product is probably about the same percentage as buyers/users of mini TVs in the population of the US. How many people do you personally know that own, and use frequently, a mini TV?
If you're implying that Visor owners will flock to a TV tuner module simply because nothing else compelling is on the horizon, I think you're mistaken. I'm willing to bet that most Visor owners are like me and haven't bought all the AVAILABLE modules that they would like!
Michael

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: May 2001
Location:
Posts: 16

Hear hear. :-)

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 152

Why the hostility toward TV?

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
I think you missed my point. I didn't say people wouldn't buy the darn thing, I just don't think that there's much use for it. Where could you use it? TV watching is a passive experience, requiring your full attention. You can watch TV on a bus, between classes, etc. How much time does the average Visor user have to waste. To justify buying it most people would have to carry it around every waking moment, and how much control do you have over the content? MP3 players can be used while doing other things, ie; reading, driving, walking, etc. and you control the content. An AM/FM module would be as usable as a MP3 player, with less control over content, but still much more usable than a TV tuner. A digital camera is a tool that you decide whether is useful for you- not a pure entertainment toy. . . .

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Last edited by dvIceT on 05-21-2001 at 09:02 AM

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 43

let's get back on topic guys. i have a portable tv and i just can't see it working. as it is, i have an antenna that i must reposition everytime i move. i can't see this as very functional in a visor. if it worked on a streaming principal, maybe. but with an antenna, no.