Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 5

Color screen on m505

OK, one of the first things I did at CeBIT was looking at the new m505. Later I went to a special palm event and met some guys who were able to get a m505 for one day, so I could play with it a little, and guess what? The color screen was real lousy and hard to read, like you'll see in all current rewies.

I talked to some guys from palm: They told me all current m505 are handmade PRE-series modells, and the ones finally shipped will have a new screen. Remember that.
One hour later someone else from Palm came around with his m505, and the display was much brighter than the one of "my" m505, so I think the shipped ones will be better and I just hope they'll have really good screens.

No one can tell how the qualitity of the m505 screen will be at the moment. Please remember that all the reviewers just got early PRESERIES modells.

Now I'm just waiting for Handspring to release an edge with color, because I want the small form factor, I want color and I want thoose modules!

I'll stay with WIn98SE on my desktop PCs, because it works realy well. My PCs so exactly what I want them to do, and I don't anything more. I can do all the graphics and sound editing, I can watch DVDs and so the only thing I can't do is playing 3D action games, but I don't want to do this and don't have the time to do it.

Why switch to windows XP? My 98 runs perfect, crashes are very rare, and I have so much programs and device working great together, that it would take me one whole week or longer to switch the OS, maybe some (like my 5 year old flatbed-scanner) won't even work under XP.

So let microsoft do what they want to do, as long as most new programs will still work under 98 and the new office versions will write files I can read with office2000 there's no problem for me. I got all my devices, I got all the great programs (omnipage pro 9.0 is avaible for $5 in Germany, and it really works great, no matter how great omnipage pro 10.0 is...) and the only thing I really need is to be able to share data with many other people with using as less converters as possible.

I just got my new computer (I had a PII 266 with 128 MB RAM and 8GB harddrive), and I decided to keep my old notebook and go for a Sony C1 picturebook which is very small. I choose to get an old modell which was on sale out, so it was cheaper and I still got WIn98SE and IrDA in it. It is only smaller, but not really faster with a PII 400, 64MB and a 12GB harddrive. That's my list for a good PC: quality, quality, quality, size, price. Who needs more performance than one year old devices have? So what does the normal user need more? I have a 30GB harddrive in an old desktop PC in my home network which delivers all the storage space I need, but actually even the 12 GB are more than enough.

zap!

Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 7

Palm's long-term strategy

Alan, I hope this satisfies your desire for an article discussing where Palm's going with its OS and hardware design. You have made me late for work. Congratulations.

Palm's long-term strategy has left me somewhat confused. What kind of target audience are they trying to maintain? Their website states that they base their design of the OS and their devices on four principles: "simplicity, expandability, mobility and wearability." Their philosophy is that you don't need "a PC in your pocket."

I hate to break it to you, Palm, but your innovative accomplishments, albeit great, are now dated and stale, and are becoming eclipsed by the things that other companies (Compaq immediately springs to mind) are doing. Responsive companies who develop for WinCE have listened to Palm users describe why they would never want to own a WinCE device, and have (promptly) turned around and fixed most of the problems. Companies like Compaq have made "a PC in your pocket" look extremely attractive, and their devices are rapidly catching up with (if they haven't already caught up with) Palm devices in terms of flexibility and usability, and more and more decent third party applications are appearing for WinCE every day. What's the point of owning a PalmOS-based device, no matter how "easy to use" they may be, if a comparable WinCE device costs about the same, is just as easy to use, looks prettier, and does so much more as well?

I bought a Visor Prism a few months ago. I am very happy with the device. But oh, how do I lust after a Compaq iPaq, to the point of browsing to Google.com and typing "win a Compaq iPaq" in the search box.

I bought a Visor because I thought that WinCE was bloated and slow, and I resented the fact that I would have to buy Visual C++ (at the very least) to write code for it. I really enjoy developing for the Palm with the GNU tools, what little I have so far. The developer in me wants to stay with the PalmOS platform, but the consumer in me is being seduced by the WinCE graphics. And the fact that you can run Linux on an iPaq just makes me want to try it out just to say that I did.

The PalmOS has really fired the creativity of a whole new generation of programmers. I can't tell you how impressed I am with applications like Wordsmith and Action Names -- so much functionality crammed into a space 160 pixels square. But the platform is really becoming stale. The only good thing about the PalmOS platform any more is, IMHO, the fantastic third-party apps that are available for it.

As more high-quality apps become available for WinCE, Palm's market share is only going to contract. I don't know what they can do to recover; all measures that they might take may be, in the words of one previous poster, "too little too late." Unless PalmOS is radically redesigned, and Palm devices are designed with higher screen resolutions, memory, etc., Palm stands in danger of relegating an entire class of devices to the commodity market. Remember when scientific calculators were hundreds of dollars apiece? Now you can buy one at Wal-Mart for $10. This will be where Palm will end up, one day. The cheap, disposable PDA that you can pick up for your 12 year old in the school supplies aisle ($9.99! in colors such as razzin' raspberry, pop-star pink and baby blue) at your local Super-K or Wallyworld. Palm devices will lose their status as cutting-edge technology and will be relegated to the bargain bin, made out of cheap components -- a truly "disposable" PDA. And maybe that's not such a bad thing -- it may enable Palm to survive as a company, to be the "McDonald's" of the PDA world. But I think it's an ignoble end for a platform with such a promising inception.

The Visor Prism that I own now is the first PDA that I ever owned. It will also have the unfortunate distinction, I'm afraid, of being the last PalmOS device that I ever buy.

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 9

Seemed like a very one sided article. Oh yea this is a Handspring Visor group though.

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 248

Former Visor Edge, now an iPAQ convert.

Ok, I started on this board b/c I support Palm devices, workpads, & Visor's as my job. I enjoyed them greatly, enjoyed the functionality, form factor (especially Visor's Edge), and really loved my Edge. It was small, light, & tough.

However, I went through 6 warranty returns in the course of 1 year. 2 Deluxe's, 3 Platinums, and 1 Edge. And I finally gave up.

I've never liked the look/feel of Palm's PalmPilots, and I thought they were crazy not to adopt the springboard that makes the Visor's so appealing...plus a standardized port would have been great for their industry.

I also got extremely tired of having to plug/unplug my MP3 player every time I wanted to use another module. Which for that very reason is why I'll never own the VisorPhone...even though I wanted one desperately.

I listen to tunes on my MiniJam MP3 player all day at work, and decided that built in MP3 support, a kick butt color screen, & tons add-ons (especially IBM's Microdrive) were worth the money to switch. I can watch movies on my iPAQ!

I was also extremely tired of my Edge locking up 30% of the time, after I unplugged a module from the expansion port.

So, I'm expecting to get flamed here, but I offer to you a unique perspective. My job is to support Palm OS devices, and PocketPC devices, and I have to say, I have made the switch. I will continue to tell people Visor's are the way to go for the average person, but potential power users will now get a demo of my iPAQ and be allowed to choose.

I suspect I'm not the only one taking a look at the PocketPC, iPAQ's design is wonderful, and will/is going to hurt PalmOS's to some degree.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

I made a mistake

My two biggest mistakes with this piece (and why I normally write something over two days not one) is that I didn't clarify my points well enough.


When I heard the announcement...it got me thinking about long term strategies. Because in this next year we will be using handhelds with more storage capacity and more need for speed...it seemed logical that Palm was already planning implimentation of 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw an iPaq in a year with twice the storage, expansion ports, Firewire connection and 802.11 compliant.

The current USB is too slow for me. Imagine transferring 100MB of music files to a handheld. And that figure will get bigger in no time at all. So my point was that I wondered IF and HOW this would effect Palm or would it...but then the rest of my piece was totally missed by many...the fact that I did a bad job of clarifying my point masked the rest...I do understand USB and 802.11 and what they do...I use both and Firewire. I was wondering if MS was sending a message out to the industry without spelling it out.

Now what I really hoped we would discuss more is the rest of the piece which is Palm's lack of innovation. Every point I made there was valid...and I hoped we could have more of that. I apologize for not being clearer.

As far as this being a one-sided article pdafreak...give me a break...the fact is that every point I made was true...and it affects everyone in the Palm OS industry. I can't say that Handspring and Sony don't innovate because it wouldn't be true. Palm is waaaay behind...and even with this new release...it is nice to see...but I am a bit underwhelmed. I expected more after all these years of posturing and releasing the same product over and over. If Palm innovated then Handspring wouldn't be as successful as they are. The new Clie in Japan wouldn't get as much exposure here as it does. And the iPaq would be dead in a ditch somewhere. Everyone is pleased to see the new Palm devices...and I am pleased to see some movement...but when you look at some of the headway that the other handheld companies are making in hardware and software...can you really tell me that Palm is an innovator? They got lazy. And as far as being one-sided...I want Palm to do well...because I don't want to use an iPaq.

Again...I apologize for not being clearer in my piece...my bad...but I am not sorry for writing it...we've had a great discussion going on here and that is what I like to see.

I am sure the readers will forgive me. Hey...show me another website where a writer will say he's sorry.

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Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by EricG
Linux is looking better and better every day...

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Really? Hmm, that's interesting...because it's just as ugly as ever to me! Personally, the only hope Linux ever had for achieving any real usability, would have been to license the BeOS UI and layer it over the Linux Kernel. Gnome and KDE are hopeless trainwrecks. Both interfaces are over-beveled and clunky, and I especially love how the UI renders huge beveled buttons to display even the simplest text message, such as "OK" or "Cancel". And the fonts...oh god!, what is with the tacky UNIX style font rendering? Looks like something from 1985. Ever hear of PostScript?

Perhaps when Linux adopts a real GUI, then it might become more pervasive. For now it's just a hobbyist OS for hackers, but it's kicking Microsoft's ass in the server market. But as a commercial desktop/workstation OS, it's a lost cause. Linux will never make it onto consumer desktops. In fact, according to the latest market data, Linux desktop usage has actually gone down while Microsoft picked up more market share. The Linux bubble burst last year along with the dot coms, and since then it's popularity outside the geek community has been in decline, and many Linux vendors/developers are now facing financial ruin. Face it, it was over-hyped. Any hope the OS has for making inroads onto commercial desktops (especially consumer desktops) will go out the window as soon as Windows XP hits the market. The only ace in the hole the open source community has, is whether or not Microsoft will be broken up. If that happens, then all bets are off, and god only knows what that outcome will bring. As for me, I will immediately migrate to Macs.

I keep hearing the same argument being played out over..and over. The open source advocates always believe that when KDE version x.1 or Gnome version X.X hits the market, it's all over for Microsoft and Apple. Sorry guy's, it ain't gonna happen. The truth is, the mainstream computing environment is stuck squarely on Windows. For example, look at the creative/design field, which I work in....why do you think that Adobe and Macromedia don't port all their apps to Linux? Because no one would want them. There is a certain culture that exists within the graphic/design/publishing industry, which is still very heavily Mac oriented, but also fixed to Windows. If Macromedia offered Dreamweaver/Fireworks/Flash to Linux, it would be like throwing a big party and no one shows up. Adobe ported FrameMaker over to Linux some time ago, and since then it has gone no where. Windows is here to stay. Macs will continue to be the preferred choice for graphics design and publishing. Linux will continue to kick MS around in the server arena, but on the desktop? Nope.

But what really aggravates me is how clueless the hardcore Linux community is about real world computing. The fact is, the vast majority of PC users don't care about other Operating Systems. Don't believe me? Go to Best Buy or Circuit City and look at all the luddites buying HP Pavilions and Compaq Presarios. Do you think these poeple plan on taking their new PCs home to wipe out Windows and replace it with Linux? And as human nature follows, once they become familiar with Windows they don't want to learn something new, so that's where they will stay. That's going to be Apple's greatest challenge. How do you convert the masses of PC users into Mac users? I think it's a hopeless cause, but I wish Apple all the luck in the world. I'm all for variety of choice, and competition. Which we seem to have little of these days...thanks to Microsoft!

Every platform has it's niche. Linux will remain dominant on Servers and embedded devices (think Tivo), and continue to be somewhat popular with geeks. But for all intents and purposes...the Penguin has left the igloo!

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Last edited by foo fighter on 04-13-2001 at 03:01 PM

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: LA, Boston, MO. its different every 6 months
Posts: 56

ignore feature?

the whole USB thing is absurd. written like the author didnt know the difference between v1 and v2 of USB. plain ole usb support will always be there. we will still be able to use our visors with the new windows OS (assuming someone gets us the software patch).

in order for handspring to take advantage of USB 2.0, they would need to put out a new cradle (correct me if im wrong). they would also need to put out a new cradle to transfer with firewire. perhaps the whole unit would need to be revamped for higher transfer rates.


slashdot has this nifty feature whereby articles by certain authors will not be posted if i set if up in my preferences. this is what i call the JonKatz feature.

can we get one of these on visorcentral? or at least list who wrote the article on the front page (this particular article was nice cause it said in passing who was writing it).

the article seems a little paranoid, and doesnt seem to be able to back up its premisees with actual data.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by EricG
Linux is looking better and better every day...

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Well, yeah, but not for any reason related to this article. Much as I hate to defend M$, I can fully understand their decision in this respect. USB 2.0 and Bluetooth are simply nowhere near being mature enough for them to commit to at this point. Perhaps they learned their lesson with the debacle that was Win95B USB support? Say what you will about M$. They usually make quite a few mistakes. The thing is that they eventually do learn from them, and try to avoid doing that one again (although they usually manage to be pretty innovative at finding new ones ). Firewire and 802.11b are relatively stable and known entities at this point, so there's nothing stopping them from building it in. Bluetooth and USB 2.0 are still moving targets at this point. Now, if you'll excuse me, I feel dirty and need to go shower.

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 200

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010412S0047

says

"Reports claiming that Microsoft favors Apple's 1394 technology over the Universal Serial Bus, or that Windows XP will be entirely devoid of USB 2.0 support, have begun to surface but appear to be misleading. Both Microsoft and Intel have reaffirmed that USB 2.0 drivers are ready to go, and will be available when XP rolls out."

So the new word is that there is support, although it may not be complete, or enthusiastic, or whatever.

I don't think people are commenting on Palm's innovation because (1) it's been mentioned in various threads discussing the new Palm/HS/Clie models (2) despite the "lack of innovation," there still sure is a lot of interest in the m505!

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 45

quote:

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Originally posted by drgandy
in order for handspring to take advantage of USB 2.0, they would need to put out a new cradle (correct me if im wrong). they would also need to put out a new cradle to transfer with firewire. perhaps the whole unit would need to be revamped for higher transfer rates.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Alive and well on VisorCentral.com
Posts: 861

foo fighter - I guess I fall into the hobbyist /hacker group, UNIX and it's kin don't scare me (I have to work with them on a daily basis anyway), and given all the Intel hardware I have kicking around here, Linux is really the only viable non-Windows alternative (for me anyway). I do not need a GUI to do what I need to do.. I can easily go between console/text-only and GUI environments with ease, it doesn't bother me.

I do agree with your feelings on KDE/GNOME. For the average Joe & Mary end user Linux does have a long way to go to displace Windows, but if Microsoft keeps making very questionable public decisions


With all respect to Toby, Unfortunately, I can see USB 2.x on WindowsXP falling into the same rut as USB 1.X and Windows 95. I don't share your positive outlook on Microsoft learning from past mistakes, to do this you first have to admit you were wrong, something I don't think I have even seen Microsoft ever do. While I agree that there are too few USB 2.0 devices out there at this time, I personally feel it was used as a good "legitimate" excuse to snub the technology in public.

Also, I am not certain of Microsoft's motivations for supporting/not-supporting something like USB 2.0, at least in a community like Linux it's because someone wants the functionality (their motivations are more likely to be inline with my own) and not for some marketing, financial, or other underhanded reasons.

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Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

quote:

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Originally posted by EricG
...Microsoft learning from past mistakes, to do this you first have to admit you were wrong, something I don't think I have even seen Microsoft ever do.

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Well, there was Gates' one admission about that little thing called the internet...

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God bless America, my home sweet home...

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

drgandy...give it a rest...your posturing is silly. BTW drgandy...you seem to have missed the entire point of the piece...I am sorry I even mentioned the USB issue...which was only an intro into a bigger topic...which was THE LACK OF INNOVATION FROM PALM.

And though I could have (and in retrospect would have) changed or altered the intro so as to not even include anything about Bluetooth or USB 2.0...which I admitted was my mistake...the fact that you focused on USB and not on the BULK of the piece...is silly. I didn't write this piece to debate the merits of USB 2.0 or Bluetooth. It was only a small part of the entire text. I've been nice enough to explain my points, answer any posts, answer all of your emails...that I don't really think I need any grief from you. If you don't want to read my pieces, don't.The fact you are shocked that you may have to actually link over to see who wrote it just so you can snub me...it is just dumb. You want to debate the issue...I'm willing to do that...you want to make comments that are insults in disguise...don't bother. I have a tough skin...I can take a lot...but I shouldn't have to.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me...it is op/ed. I said I made the mistake of not clarifying my position...so give it a rest.

I explained myself through several posts...and I never said that regular USB wouldn't be supported...I never said that USB 2.0 would NEVER be supported. I am happy to have people debate this issue, regardless how far it went off the mark...I like seeing a good discussion...but don't be a jerk. VisorCentral has always been a great place to discuss issues and have a good debate...I've never been a jerk to anyone and I enjoy having these forums...I don't know that many sites where writers actually participate.

drgandy, since we don't have that feature for you If you send me your email I will be sure to let you know when to avoid my articles. Let's try and have a little respect for each other?

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 17

I saw it coming......

Some of us have seen this coming for a long time now....of course when we mentioned it on the Palm discussion boards the Palm fanatics and professional Microsoft haters jumped all over us. Palm has been drifting, clueless and out of touch with their customers for a long time now. If I hear them tout the "Zen of Palm" one more time I think I'll throw up. What are they going to do when the new Pocket PC OS comes out this fall with 64 MB of ram and 400mhz+ processors? By the time Palm even has decent screen resolution the Pocket PC will have a 2-year head start which is pretty insurmountable. That's why I have finally shifted to the ipaq after years of various Palm and Handspring devices.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Re: I saw it coming......

quote:

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Originally posted by tthiel
Palm has been drifting, clueless and out of touch with their customers for a long time now. If I hear them tout the "Zen of Palm" one more time I think I'll throw up!

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You know, it's funny that I'm reading more and more posts like this. When I made this exact same argument a year ago when PocketPC devices first started appearing, you all thought I was nuts! Now your all starting to sound like me?!?! This is a little scary!

I'm sure no one has forgotten the days when I was standing high on my PocketPC soapbox?

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 380

OK, let's talk about Palm and innovation. This shouldn't take too long.

Actually, since we all agree that Palm hasn't been incredibly innovative over the last couple of years, let's not talk about it. Instead, let's talk about why they have not appeared to be innovative.

Based on comments from within Palm (both private and public), it appears that palm is indeed moving into something of a Microsoft role. What I mean by this is that it is apparent that the Palm OS license agreement that HandSpring, Sony, HandEra, etc. are working under requires that changes and additions made to the base OS have to be made available to Palm. This has never been explicitly stated, but has been implied a number of times.

Palm's current model is to take changes made by their OEMs and roll them into general releases which Palm will always have first. This is why HandSpring implemented 16-bit color and now Palm has it in the new release of the base OS. This could also be why Sony doesn't have it in the Clie - they would have had to duplicate the engineering that they will get for free in a few months. By the same token, Palm will get first access to the high resolution code from Sony.

At the same time, Palm is doing integration of features, they are also working on improvements. The new memory APIs of OS 4 are an example. Starting with OEM capabilities, they have extended the feature into something very useful and generic. Palm is also working on innovations and new features themselves, so it is not entirely one-sided.

This arrangement also benefits the OEMs since they eventually get access to innovations and developments from other companies. At the same time, the company that actually creates the new feature gets to have it first and so gets a real head-start on the competition. The end result is a stronger product for everyone.

The benefit to Palm (besides royalties) is the they get to be the first company to release integrated products. For instance, we might see a product from Palm that has both 320x320 resolution and 16-bit colorbefore anyone else releases one (or maybe not).

Currently, all of the developers at Palm except for maintenance programmers are working on Palm OS v5. They are done with v4 and have moved on. This will bring a lot of new features and innovations to the product line, but we won't see it for at least a year, so it will look even more like Palm is slacking off. This is simply not true.

One more thought. A lot of people are saying that since Jeff and Donna left Palm to form HandSpring, that innovation has died at Palm. I think that it is very possible that this is not the whole truth. I think that the decision to use an "OEM integrator" business model may have already been made, and that is why they left. Not the other way around.

What do you all think?

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

Amen...thank you for finally getting to the argument I'd like to have. Palm doesn't seem to have any direction...they seem listless, and unsure. No amount of marketing money can convince many people that on the surface, the iPaq isn't more attractive than the Palm. We all have had the Mhz debate a long time...but the plain and simple fact is that we always want the most powerful device out there...you can't ignore that aspect of the market...because even if it is stupid...it is real. I think Handspring and Sony are great...but they seem to want to pull ahead of the pack...but they can't move any faster than Palm OS.

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I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by Black_Dragon
Yes, you would need a new cradle to use USB 2.0 or FireWire speeds. The USB 2.0 specs allow for up to 480Mbits/sec (and FireWire up to 400Mbits/sec) transfers. USB 1.1 (the current revision) provides 12Mbits/sec, and the Visor doesn't even really do that.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 72

Palm's problem is the attitude of its CEO

Alan,

About a year ago I read a quote from the new CEO in an article. I cannot remember the exact the words, but the tone sent shivers down my spine. It was to the effect of "I know [some feature] is ugly, I can't stand it either". The unspoken message was, "I'm the new boss here to push this palm thing." That attitude has flowed from the top right down into the new 500 series. He does not have a passion for the product. The thought of being like Microsoft probably appeals to him.

Turbulence ahead Captain....

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

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Originally posted by EricG
With all respect to Toby, Unfortunately, I can see USB 2.x on WindowsXP falling into the same rut as USB 1.X and Windows 95.

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