Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Thanks Toby for the explanations, saves me having to go over them myself. It's interesting what everybody brings to the stories they watch.

I assume the Architect was very surprised that Neo was able to save Trinity. My guess is that there are going to be a lot of fun surprises for everyone in Revolution! (that's what a revolution is for, isn't it?)

Does anyone else have an explanation for the title The Matrix Reloaded? I have one that I'm going to keep close to my chest, because I'm guessing , but I think it won't make total sense until after one sees all three movies.

As I unlock the FMVs from the game I'll pass on any info that seems newsworthy.

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

more Enter The Matrix hints/clues/etc.

More info-bits gleaned from the FMV in the Enter The Matrix game (I finished the game as Ghost, still need to go thru as Niobe):

Ballard (a super funk ships captain) gets a short FMV fighting Seraph.

Ghost loves Trinity, but knows she will never love him (unrequited love) as more than a brother. He accepts this. (you get a hint about this when Ghost runs into The Merovigians wife and she pulls the "I will tell you if you kiss me" routine on him, is hinted further when he spars with Trinity, and confirmed when he speaks with The Oracle)

Niobe volunteered (to help Morpheus) because her lover purposely lied to the council to try and keep her and the Logos out of the upcoming fight.

It is intimated that Smith/Bane definitely has something to with the early EMP charge that left the fleet vunerable to the Sentinal horde.

Two programs stole part of the Oracles programming(?) and gave it to The Merovigian, leaving her partially disabled. She doesn't begrudge them for it though as they did it for love, to save their child (a program). She tells Ghost that she thinks the child"s survival will be important to both humans and the machines survival.

Somehow Smith is able to monitor (at least sometimes) when someone uses the "backdoor" program. He doesn't have the ability to know who though (without looking).

All of this occurs during the Matrix Revolution.

After you finish the game you get to see a teaser trailer for the upcoming film. Remember the guy in Zion who was using the powered suit? He gets to knock some Sentinals around. Various cool martial arts ensues.

During gameplay as Ghost you get to fight Agents (and Smith). Run don't walk to the nearest exit!

You also get to fight Seraph (in the Teahouse) and spar with Trinity. The driving parts (mostly Niobe drives) are the weakest link in the game.

You only can save a game after you finish a level.

Is it worth the money?

I'm not a big game player. Last game I bought was NOLF 2 this year. Unless you're a Matrix fan who wants to see the video yourself before the next movie comes out, you might want to wait and see if the price comes down. I feel it was worth the money to me, because I tend to play games more than once, but I rarely see movies, don't watch TV and don't go to sports events or concerts, so my entertainment budget isn't overburdened.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

Incidentally, I've been thinking about Neo and the squiddies at the end. I'm wondering at this point if he really stopped them. In retrospect, it looked like an EMP hit them just coincidentally as he raised his hand. And what should show up as he hits the ground? A ship to get them out of there. Maybe the ship got the squiddies?

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 46

Smith...

POSSIBLE SPOILER!!!!!!!!
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Okay... Smith comments that Neo changed him. His code is corrupted. Consider smith a Virus (hence the billions and billions of him and his being able to infect others).

Take it from there...

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

Incidentally, I've been thinking about Neo and the squiddies at the end. I'm wondering at this point if he really stopped them. In retrospect, it looked like an EMP hit them just coincidentally as he raised his hand. And what should show up as he hits the ground? A ship to get them out of there. Maybe the ship got the squiddies?

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 734

Re: Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike

I may have to see the darn thing again and look more carefully. If I get my Prism working (I had to get a new battery and it's not charging-or the charger isn't working - have to get the multimeter out) then I could actually write notes to remind me what to look for.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Re: Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
I thought the other ship was coming to meet them and why would he collapse (into a coma)?

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It's not a fully formed theory yet. Just something that I was thinking of. I'd have to see it again. Not sure if that'll happen before it hits DVD, though.

quote:

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Also they stopped rather abruptly. If they were hit by an EMP they would have continued forward, carried by their momentum (crushing Neo and Trinity), right?

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Didn't go with its momentum and crush them in the first movie.

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I don't think they (the W Bros.) would have left it at that without letting the viewer know (example "Wow, thanks for saving our butts with that well timed EMP charge!" ) what was up. That's the lame kind of cliffhanger that they used to use on the old serials like Flash Gordon, etc. [...]

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Personally, I think they're messing with people intentionally by throwing some red herrings in there. The whole matrix-within-a-matrix thing seems much lamer to me than the ship showing up just in time with an EMP. Of course, the question is also begged about what the code that makes up the earpiece would have shown Neo. Maybe it told him the secret squiddie wave that would force them to deactivate themselves.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Re: Re: Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
Didn't go with its momentum and crush them in the first movie.

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I thought that the Sentinals were actually physically attatched to the hull of the ship at that time.

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
Personally, I think they're messing with people intentionally by throwing some red herrings in there. The whole matrix-within-a-matrix thing seems much lamer to me than the ship showing up just in time with an EMP. Of course, the question is also begged about what the code that makes up the earpiece would have shown Neo. Maybe it told him the secret squiddie wave that would force them to deactivate themselves.

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I'm not sure they're red herrings as much as just little bits of a bigger picture (which will make sense later).

I don't believe the Matrix in a Matrix theory. I would be very disappointed if they went that route.

Maybe the game will give me more info when I play through as Niobe.

My wife has been making hints about me taking her to see the movie before th baby pops out. If she goes late we may do it to induce labor

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Location:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
I thought that the Sentinals were actually physically attatched to the hull of the ship at that time.

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Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
Those guys strike me as practical jokers.

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__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

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Location:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
Do you work on/near a computer all day? [...] We seem to be the only ones posting now. [...]

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Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Neo and the squiddies ***MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER***

quote:

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Originally posted by Toby
I'm a network admin. I'm almost always at a computer, although, I only post or read from mine during lulls in activity. and Have you browsed the CD? They might just be mpgs or movs buried in the directory structure.

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Registered: Jan 2003
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What to expect from Matrix Revolutions

I really wonder how the Wachowski brothers will find a decent way out of this story in "Revolutions". I also don't really like the matrix in a matrix in a matrix version. What else then (given Neo stopped the machines in "reality")?

- Mr. Andersen waking up saying "What an awful dream - damn, I'm late for work!"

- Neo beating the machines and leading the surviving humans to the surface of the earth, where a new pardise awaits them?

- Apocalypse?

- Only Neo and Trinity survive, with an uncertain future?

... I hope the Wachowski brothers are better storytellers than me (I guess they are).

Any more ideas from your side? Who gets it right?

Morpheus must have a bad time in the next part, after he made a fool out of himself by putting so much faith in the oracle. Must have lost a lot of credibility and charisma. I never held him in high regard since he claimed the machines used the humans to produce energy. That would have been quite a silly way of producing energy, like raising cows in order to burn them later, instead of burning the biomass directly - a terrible waste of energy. Surely, the machines know the basic laws of thermodynamics, so they would not go through all the hassle only to "produce" energy. Or maybe the machines know thermodynamics, but Morpheus and the Wachowski brothers don't?

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 734

Re: What to expect from Matrix Revolutions

quote:

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Originally posted by clulup
Morpheus must have a bad time in the next part, after he made a fool out of himself by putting so much faith in the oracle. Must have lost a lot of credibility and charisma. I never held him in high regard since he claimed the machines used the humans to produce energy. That would have been quite a silly way of producing energy, like raising cows in order to burn them later, instead of burning the biomass directly - a terrible waste of energy. Surely, the machines know the basic laws of thermodynamics, so they would not go through all the hassle only to "produce" energy. Or maybe the machines know thermodynamics, but Morpheus and the Wachowski brothers don't?

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Registered: Dec 1999
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a bit more data from ETM FMVs

Well it appears that (according to Enter The Matrix) that the Oracle was punished by the Mero. for choosing to help Neo (see my post about what she says to Ghost.).

When she talks to Niobe (in the FMV that occurs at the same juncture as the Ghost/Oracle conversation) she remarks that Neo touched "the Source" and is trapped "between worlds" and that Trinity will have to "go through Hell" to help him.

It appears that Morpheus was correct in trusting her and that she is indeed trying to assist the humans.

The games driving portions still really suck

I'm aiming for the Humans have to learn to trust some machines. The bad ones are destroyed and they start to set up a new society based on co-operation and mutual respect - both in the matrix and in the real world. Then they move into a new uncharted future.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7

ANIMATRIX SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Watched the Animatrix DVD and picked up a few things:

- The battery part Morpheus told is beyond questioion. The DVD shows the whole story of how the machines took over. The humans started the war and blotted out the sky to cut off the machines main power source - the sun. Up until this point the machines were the ones trying to find compromises for a peaceful solution and the humans wouldn't cooperate. Once the sun was gone the machines enslaved humanity to those pods to power them.

- There is also a story about how humans were EMP'ing machines and then reactivating them into a Matrix-like simulation that taught them to be friends with humans. Once the simulation was concluded the machines were disconnected from it and came back into the real world as friends. The main theme of the story was that the machines could not tell the difference between the simulation and reality and that when the simulation ended, the machines believed that it had really happened in the real world. I think this is another hint supporting my theory that everything in the movie -including "reality" has been happening in the Matrix. The humans reality is a simulation as well but they just don't know it. That's why Neo was able to stop the machines in reality and Smith was able to come into the real world via the phone.

P.S. I like the analogy of Smith becoming a virus since that is what he comared humans to in the first movie.

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: graveyard
Posts: 1

Wow... there's a LOT of good stuff here. Good ideas. A lot of it reinforces what I have been thinking about the "bigger picture". At this point I am pretty much convinced that everything we have seen so far is the Matrix, that in order for people to accept the program, people need two things. One: Choice - the concept that there is a place like Zion to escape from the machine world into; an option so as to enable the human psyche to feel free. Two: Strife - something to fight for, to believe in (like religion) giving core purpose. I also keep wondering if Neo is even human. Maybe he's a program secretly written by the Architect (maybe in colaberation with the Oracle during the construction of this version of the Matrix) to think he's human and everyone else thinks so as well; a little like Rachel in Blade Runner. His role would then be to give the humans a "god" in the machine world at their aid, giving them such hope that they can actually win this battle against the machines. And, they possibly will in the next movie? Hmmm.... Well, it would be interesting if this were the case, and if the creation of the "one" by the machines will be the thing that ultimately undoes them. He could become too powerful to control, and destroy the Matrix.

As for the Oracle, well, AI can go both directions, because after all, the machines also have choice! So they can choose to help the humans, like the Oracle did (and Persephone, but she was just trying to piss of her pompass prick of a hubby). Maybe at some point she realized that the best idea for the "bigger picture" was to live in harmony with the humans. I read a post where someone was saying that some of the machines want to rebuild the world where people and machines lived in a symbiosis of sorts. I like that concept.

There is still a part of me that continues to beg the question that maybe we _are_ seeing the real world when Neo is woken up in the first movie. And that due to the fact that Smith gets into the real world, that gives Neo a "hardline" of sorts to the machine world from the real world. He is then able to "feel" the sentinals coming to get them, and stop them with his will. There is some strong connection between Neo and Smith. I have not figured it out yet, but there's something there.

Well, goodness. blah blah blah... Just wanted to add my $0.02.

Last edited by revenant on 06-27-2003 at 07:48 PM

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7

I'm starting to think that Smith is just an example of how when the Matrix program runs too long it needs to be reset. His program is just out of control at this point. One could conclude that if left unchecked he would just keep replicating throughout the entire Matrix bringing it down.

I also think there is something special going on with Smith though. In the first movie he seemed like he was taking it a little too personal when he interrogated Morpheus and expressed his extreme need to end his own personal existance in the Matrix. The other two agents looked at him in shock when they walked into the room and saw what was going on.

But who knows? I get the feeling the next movie will hit us with something completely new and unexpected.