Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 28

Okay ppl i know you prob read all about this subject over and over but heres something that most ppl never quite comprehend

Palm has been able to out do every compeditor with little more then a beffed up pilot 1000. think about it for a min. palms are no futher evolved from the pilot 1000/5000. still have a small screen grey/gree in all cases except IIIc. still work with the same button layout. pretty much everything is the same.

And yet with CE and other PDA's that are technicaly far superior. Palm wins at every turn.

i'm realy curios to know why. Think about it. the devinche(or however you spell it) did do pretty much everything palm did in the begining, it did add backlight. sync technology, pc and mac compatibility and the ability to dl software for it + it gave the user a keybrd that could be used like the ones we are seeing from stowaway now. & it was less expencive for the date of release. under $200 for somethign that palm was still seling @ about the $400 mark.
I know i was impressed cuz that unit was more powerfull and had nearly the exact layout and everything. most ppl i knew thought it was a new pilot.
Yet it's dead. no palce.

RIM's first device did kill off a feal pilots. i know a few ppl that droped there pppro's for there first one that attached to the motorola startech. but after a month the went back.

CE devices have never been abel to even try to offer compitition there first time out. they just did't work. simple as that.
there second atempt was a bit better but still the sync did't work so it's pretty much usless
PocketPC does seem to be able to create compitition but we will have to see in 6-12 months from now.( a faair amount of time i believe)

and what ever happened to REXX. I loved those little things. It was the smallest PDA i've seen avalible and it was great for ppl who owned labtops who did't wana bring them all over the place. the first ver sucked cuz of no input but the did fix that in there next release. yet it's sorta dead.


so guyz tell everyone here what you think it is exactly that makes ppl chose a palm over any other device. and don't start with that noncence that CE sux, or that palm just rulez. I'm hoping that everyone(especialy FOO cuz he does apear to be the only one offering a clear view of the CE side)will be able to @ least tell us why they chose a palm. or CE, or rexx or what ever. cept a pad and paper cuz i dont' think anyone cares much about that. :P kidding

i know i chose my first pppro after i played with my buddies and was reading up on thepilot 1000/5000 when i saw 1 meg and that you could leech apps for it for free i was totaly hooked. when i saw my first CE i just laughed cuz, well it was stupid to me. a tiny PC on a tiny screen. might as well surf the net on a stamp sized 2 bit mobile PCS screen!

i do however like the features that pocketPC has but still belive that video is pointless. what do i wana be able to watch 30 seconds or even 5 mins of something. Unless i can watch multiple hours of multiple movies then forget it. as well as the mp3 i like it. better then carrying a walkman,discman, seperate mp3 player, but i wana be able to use it and my PDA without ANY and i mean NONE what so ever glitches in music. it's my bigest peev about 9x. win2k still has this problem and it totaly iritaes me beyond belief. even my dual celeron 400 overclocked @ 600 each(1200MHz in total) and 256 megs and yet if i scroll down Netscape/IE while playing winamp i get glitches. WMP is even worse.

tahts why i bought my visor the mp3 player has it's own processor. no risk of interferance. and if there is, my 50 pound problem solver(sledhamer AKA my fav toy) will corect these problems. :P

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Hey Piloteer!

You make a pretty good argument, and your right. The Pocket PC may not be for everyone, but it does have features I've wanted from a Palm device. That's why I bought the Visor. It's just that I've become skeptical at the idea of have to keep buying $200 Springboard modules to get my handheld to do something it should be capable of doing out of the box.

And thank you for validating my point that, if nothing else, the PPC will put pressure on Palm to add much needed features to the OS. As it stands now, I think the Palm platform is too stripped down, and you also validate my point by saying that your Palm hasn't evolved since the Pilot 1000. I don't see that as a good sign, however. It tells me that after 5 years, this platform is due of for an enema! Anyway, I still love my Visor in fact I was playing with it this morning, and I continue to share your enthusiasm. It's just that I want more.

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Foo

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

I should also note one other hurdle Palm has facing it. The Pocket PC has wide appeal with the youth market, while the more than 50%-60% of Palm's customer base are "middle aged businessmen". That figure came directly from Palm itself.

Maybe the Visor will tap the youth culture, but so far, the Palm itself has not.

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Foo

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Palm wins on every turn (so far) primarily because of size and usability factors that other handhelds lack. Other considerations like RAM, processor speed, screen resolution, color and sound are secondary for the majority of users.

Most people want something that fits in their pocket and is easy to use. I almost bought a E-100 when it first came out because I was so impressed with the specs compared to the Palm III. Then I tried both in the store and it immediately became obvious why everyone went with Palm. The Win 9x desktop UI just looks and feels awkard on a tiny screen, especially its heirarchical menus and files which are more appropriate on the desktop. This for me negated the advantage of CE's higher screen resolution.

I can't say much about the DaVincis, not having played with one for more than five minutes. My immediate reaction is that it looked and felt like a toy. That combined with the fact that for all intents and purposes, it had no third-party apps (compared to the Palm) made it unattractive, even at the low price tag, especially now that I can get a Palm IIIxe for under $150.

I'm much more impressed with Casio's Pocket Viewer and Oregon Scientific's OSPro, sub-$100 PDA that have a much more professional appearance. I have higher hopes for these as competitors to Palm than $500-600 luxury models that may be discontinued at any moment by their manufacturers.

You can't necessarily judge the success or failure of a product by the market share of its OS. Many, if not most PDAs have some proprietary OS that's exclusive to that one product (like the PV, the OSPro, the Helio, etc.), and its unrealistic to expect them to appear on the market share pie chart with Palm, CE and EPOC -- even if the product does well.

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 99

The mistake that Microsoft makes time and time again with it's Windows CE line of computers is the same that killed off PDA makers like Apple and Sony back when the Pilot first came out : simplicity

The Newton, Magic Cap, all of them , are now gone. Why? Because the Palm OS did what they could not : bring handheld computing to the masses with devices that were simple to use and didn't cost much.

This is why Microsoft will fail : They are still playing game with the wrong rules. "low cost" Pocket PC's cost $500, and even the name shows that M$ doesn't get it. We don't want another PC, we want something which is simple and fast, doesn't crash, and is cheap.

Being a die hard Mac user, I hate to put down the under dog, but if Windows was as good compared Mac OS as the Palm OS is to Windows CE, I would own a PC too.

[This message has been edited by chrisfoster (edited 04-22-2000).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

What do you mean "if" Windows was "as good" as the MacOS? Windows 2000 (NT) is far more stable and reliable than the MacOS!

Granted, that's going to change very soon with the introduction of OS X and it's new FreeBSD/Linux kernel, and yes even the current OS looks more elegant than Windows, but as for a robust, stable OS with a powerful Kernel...the current MacOS doesn't hold a candle to Win2000! The new Windows 2000 professional is downright bulletproof. In my experience, It's damn near as stable as Linux.

The Windows 9x DOS code base is a total joke, but NT isn't based on DOS.

I can't wait to see MacOS X, it looks really promising. I'm crazy about AQUA!!!

But please don't compare the current OS to Windows 2000 and make the outrageous claim that it's more reliable!

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Foo

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 28

I think alot of you did't quite get what i was trying to point out. Think about it if palm only needs to change it's products ever so slightly for 5 years while others scramble with whatever they can to cram into a PDA like device and fail. what does that mean? Not to mention when palm FINALY after years of teasing and then lie'n about colour for os4 only they added colour and ppl went nuts. almost everyone hates it. and honestly it's palm worst mistake. the screen looks horible.

as for stability about other os, i'm sorry i still got a 486 proxy server sitting here runnin for 5 years without a reboot and i've yet to touch it for anything. heck i tried to log into it today and forgot the root PW :P
now i got win2k on this system and i have to reboot once a month. mind you my 486 gets bashed non stop. the poor HD sounds like it's on it's last leg and it's totaly full of dust cuz i've yet to clean it. Yet 5 yrs later it's still running. swaping to the drive and working hard with ppl hitting it all the time. it never gets a break.

But back to PDA's
I agree with foo that i wish palm had all the features i wanted out of the box. thats the reason i bought my visor. problem is that it's totaly limited to 1 springbrd. which is what i hate. I've been looking @ ce for a while but when i think about the fact that even if i dish out for a 32 meg ver just to play mp3's i'm getting riped off. i can get a mp3 player for far less and it last's longer. again another reason for my visor. However i like to have the ability to tkae a pic of something just for the sake of it(never a cam around when you need one) but theres another thinig to lug around. and when you add everything up your a walking radioactive center. I wish there was a way you could go online order the features you want and have a company just build your PDA to your choice. but thats not happening anytime soon.