Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 2

Actually, guys, it's not a planned obsolescence strategy. Rather, the Motorola processors used in Palms and Visors can only address a fixed amount of memory. The way the memory is mapped out with RAM and ROM, that only leaves 8MB.

Probably seemed like plenty back when the 128K Pilot 1000 was designed. (Hardware designers never learn...)

So a move past 8MB of memory will require a new CPU. I get the impression Palm plans to move away from the Dragonall eventually. The RAM limitations and the 160x160 screen are both due to the Dragonball CPU designs.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

quote:

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Originally posted by Skyray
So a move past 8MB of memory will require a new CPU.

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While I'm in agreement with most of your post, the quoted statement is not entirely true. You can access storage that is larger than 8MB. I believe that there is a performance hit in accessing non-system board memory, but you can even run a properly designed app from off mainboard memory (but will this work for >8MB SBMs?). For examples of Palm compatible storage that is larger than 8MB, see Thincom's upcoming 16MB module, and the exploits of the TRGPro. I would reference the MiniJam, but that feature is not yet supported . . .

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 117

you just proved my point

quote:

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Originally posted by Skyray
Actually, guys, it's not a planned obsolescence strategy. Rather, the Motorola processors used in Palms and Visors can only address a fixed amount of memory. The way the memory is mapped out with RAM and ROM, that only leaves 8MB.

Probably seemed like plenty back when the 128K Pilot 1000 was designed. (Hardware designers never learn...)

So a move past 8MB of memory will require a new CPU. I get the impression Palm plans to move away from the Dragonall eventually. The RAM limitations and the 160x160 screen are both due to the Dragonball CPU designs.

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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Interests: Women, Drums, Visors, Computers, Home Theater and any cool gadgets.
Posts: 138

Re: yes, i know about the cf adapter

quote:

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Originally posted by zelchenko
Yes, I am aware of the CF adapter project--but it is plagued by the same memory management limitations of any flash module on the visor. Plus, the power constraints on the SB slot prohibit you from using power hungry CF modules like the microdrive.

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Registered: Feb 2000
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 290

quote:

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Originally posted by Skyray
Actually, guys, it's not a planned obsolescence strategy. Rather, the Motorola processors used in Palms and Visors can only address a fixed amount of memory. The way the memory is mapped out with RAM and ROM, that only leaves 8MB.

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Registered: Feb 2000
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 290

P.S.
After a little poking around on the net, I found a copy of the Memory Map of the Palm 1000. RAM starts at x1000,0000 and the system ROM starts at 0x10C0,0000. From that, there is space for 12Meg of RAM. A quick check on my VDX shows that this has not changed. Looking at the "Visor Rom with USB - HOWTO discussion", it appears to have change on the Prism. Note: The Prism and the Platinum are the first Palm devices to use the Dragon Ball VZ. Also someone mentioned seeing a database by the name of "Hal". Possibly the Hardware Abstraction Layer I said was needed. Quick check ... a "HAL" file is on my VDX, with a creator ID of 'HsEx' which would indicate that this is a Handspring Extension.

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

Dragonball EZ is limited to 8MB of RAM

potter is correct: The 8MB limit is due to the Dragonball EZ processor. I just checked the data sheets for the original Dragonball, the MC68328, and the newer Dragonball EZ, the MC68EZ328.

The orginal Dragonball did NOT have a DRAM controller built into it. Palm used psuedo-static DRAM which is DRAM that refreshes itself, but looks to processor like SRAM (static RAM). This coupled with the memory map of the Palms gave room for 12MB of RAM total. Hence TRG's 12MB upgrade.

Now the Dragonball EZ does have a DRAM controller. BUT it is limited to 8MB of RAM total. NO MORE! Hence any Palm unit based upon the Dragonball EZ is limited to 8MB of DRAM, period.

I also checked the Dragonball VZ datasheet. It does say that the VZ supports up to 32MB of SDRAM. It also says that it supports up to two banks of DRAM. This seems to indicate suppport for up to 64MB of RAM but I'm not sure. The datasheet also does not indicate a limit for EDO type DRAM. The VZ datasheet is not very detailed here.

So maybe the Prism and Platinum can go to 32MB or even 64MB of RAM, if they used SDRAM. Anybody have any more details here?

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 117

uh, no

The Microdrive currently maxes out at 1 gig, and that came out a couple months ago. I wonder how much IBM can squeeze out of that form-factor for a non-solid-state design.

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 594

FWIW, I think a 2Gb PCMCIA Microdrive was just released (though I know no SB is looking at supporting PCMICA right now).
FWIW, I think per-Mb cost is always better on Microdrive than on the solid-state cards, but you take a hit w/moving parts.
FWIW, I think when the Palm III was released, I remember reading a PC Mag. article about the Palm OS's ability to address up to 4Gb of memory.

I guess, yeah, we're all a bit spoiled by the usu. frugal Palm OS, and now that a few apps are closing in on 1/2Mb (DateBk4 is the VERY largest Palm OS app right now, isn't it? At like 400kb?).
So, it may not really be a "need," but...
Yeah, having access to CF, etc. ought to be fine for another year or so. If the largest on-board app is 1/2Mb, and you can fit 8 of them into 1/2 of the VDX's RAM, and leave 4Mb to move stuff back & forth (even though all you'd really need is 1/2Mb, since it's the largest app) ... I guess it's not REALLY "planned obs." by HS.
It just seems a little "user un-friendly" esp. from HS, again, because they spoiled us by being first to mkt. w/a 8Mb Palm OS device for $250...
But also because of the SB, and the reality that not all SBs come w/extra memory, even though SOME definitely should. (I'm mostly thinking of the E.M., which requires 187k per photo, on the device (only about 100k when converted on the PC - whuzzup wit dat?) for color photos, which are almost the E.M.'s only usable resolution.)

I just think that for $450 HS had a good oppty. to create a lot of goodwill (and inspire a LOT of people to upgrade) if they made the Prism (and maybe the Plat?) 16Mb ... even if we didn't really "need" it ... we kinda "deserve" it, no? I mean, a lot of us have supported HS since they 1st went public.
But they are in biz., to make a profit, of course...