Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 6

I recently purchase the Visor Deluxe and am sorely disappointed with several issues.

The first issue is customer service. I had ordered the modem with the Visor and decided that it was unnecessary. Handspring will not allow me to cancel the order and actually had the audacity to suggest that I should call the bank that handles my credit card and ask them to refuse payment. This is absolutely ludicrous! They are so #$%#$ lazy and incompetant that they can't cancel my order?! Or perhaps its a software issue. In any case, it should not be my problem. I am so unhappy that I refuse to support Handspring EVER again. I will be selling my Visor on Ebay later today.

The second issue is that the microphone is not supported by Handspring. I was told (after purchase) that I would have to buy a third-party module if I wanted any microphone use. Their advertising is technically legal, but certainly immoral by the standards of any industry other than the computer industry.

Why did they include a microphone that is completely useless in its current configuration? Ans.: So they could advertise it and claim additional features above the Palm system. The microphone could have easily been incorporated into a third-party module. There is no significant reason other than intended deception to include it in the body of the Visor.

I have to admit that it worked on me. It was the feature that sold the Visor to me as I felt it would allow me to catch a few words from my infant son.

My Palm V with flash RAM and sleek case should arrive tomorrow. I don't have time and patience for such BS. I've made this statement mostly for therapeutic reasons, but I hope that someday business will realize the value of the return customer. (Some businesses do, of course, just not most.)

As a final thought: Why do all computer industry service employees seem to be idiots? Why do none of them understand the technology they peddle?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 40

Yes, their outsourced Customer support in Canada is dogcrap, I'd be the first to admit that. But the corporate customer support is excellent. I called in on Tuesday after receiving an email that my order information is fubared, and I had the visor in my hand by Wednesday. And, believe me, the potential for it is amazing, I havn't felt this way since my father taught me programming on our 286 10 years ago.

As for the microfone, everyone I talked to knew in advance that it's there to be used by the springboard expansion modules. You mean to tell me that you noticed that there's a mike, but didn't wonder how the unit is going to play the sound *back* without a speaker and/or a walkman jack? It pays to read up on what you are ordering.

You are obviously quite unhappy, so I'd let you cool off for a while. As a consolation, your visor will probably fetch a handsome sum on Ebay, compared to what you paid for in the first place...

-=- SiKnight

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Gainesville, FL USA
Posts: 112

Hawkins has said that the microphone is there so that if someone comes out with a cellular phone module the mike is in the right place.

Why is their support so bad? Lowest bidder.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 16

The reason the customer service people know nothing is because if they did, they'd work in engineering...

Not enough smart people in this world.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 6

Thanks for you comments. However, I refuse to differentiate between outsourced CS and corporate CS. I'm an enduser and I don't give a rip how they choose to manage their infrastructure.

What I do care about is how they can't cancel my order and how my two tech support calls were very unsatisfying and misleading. I found the answers to my questions by searching through newsgroup postings and searching this site. It was clear that the tech didn't know much beyond what the manual told me and didn't even know the full contents of the PalmOS manual.

Back to the order issue now: I claim that anyone who doesn't understand that Handspring's advice (for me to call my bank and stop payment) is completely rediculous is out of touch and is numb to the abuses of this industry. It does not seem reasonable that the people whose lives depend on MY MONEY should treat me ill.

Warning, political statement:
[This is quite similiar to gov't employees who treat business owners poorly and claim that they are doing their part since they pay taxes too. Think about it for a second. I know most people are embarassed to confront such issues, but it cuts right to the heart of the matter. "Don't bite the hand that feeds." Who pays the gov't employees? The gov't. Who pays the gov't? Taxpayers. Which taxpayers don't get their money from the gov't? PRIVATE businesses.]

Where does Handspring get its money? YOU and ME. Who pays those idiots on the phone? Handspring. So YOU and I are paying those idiots on the phone to treat us badly. I say NO! I refuse to give them any more of my money EVER! (unless I receive a personal appology from Handspring and they take care of my modem problem immediately)

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: West Palm, FL
Posts: 53

Niknik,
Sorry to hear you bought a Palm V. I just retired my palm V to my sister when I got my VDX. The palm V has great looks and style but thats where it stops. I much prefer my VDX, it may not look as sleek, but I'm not in a beauty contest. What I need is my VDX because of the springboard expandability future.
Good luck with your palm V.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 6

It's not about features. It's about principle.

There are other issues as well, but mostly its about principle.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 143

niknik,

Glad you stand so strongly on principle...hope life is going well without any Microsoft products.

As far as I can tell, this unethical advertising you are so worked up about in regard to the microphone is one line in the features table on the HS web site that says there is a built in microphone...well, there is a built in microphone and almost everyone else here figured out from every news article about the Visor that it was there for future use...this particular whine is like complaining that the expansion slots that came with your desktop machine are just there so the evil computer maker can charge more money for boards.

Enjoy your Palm, and the knowledge that you paid more on principle to get similar functionality to your Vdx out of the box, with no microphone to ever interact with a future expansion...this because they were basically honest enough to tell you that their ordering system is so fubar that cancelling through them is likely to never be recorded, causing your credit line to get blocked, as has happened to others here.

HS has had more than its share of problems, but this one seems like an overreaction to me.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 6

huski,

Curious that you should mention Microsoft. I don't have any commercial Microsoft products. Life is good. Thanks for your concern.

Now, why should I have to read news groups and discussions to learn that the microphone isn't supported? I stand by my earlier statements concerning its inclusion in the Visor. This is a secondary issue anyhow.

The real issue has always been bad CS, but I admit that on its own, it would not have made me take my course of action. It was a complicated decision, but both of the issues I've raised played major roles.

BTW, HS did not ever explain their decision to disallow my order cancellation. Two different people steadfastly refused to give any reason other than "these are the procedures and processes that we have decided to follow." Believe me, I asked.

Somebody has to stand on principle. We all have our own peeves. Mine is bad CS.

For a brand new VDX check out ebay #217575897.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 31

Here is what niknik spouts in a previous email:
"Now, why should I have to read news groups and discussions to learn that the microphone isn't supported? I stand by my earlier statements concerning its inclusion in the Visor."

Well, the same reason you are reading and writing on this discussion board to find out more/or air your grievances about the Visor. The same way everyone browses the Web for information on the item that they are about to buy before spending a whole lot of cash on it.

So, if you want to whine, go call your Mum, and cry on her shoulder. Stupid people deserves stupid responses.

[This message has been edited by JHromadka (edited 12-10-1999).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 32

Hey niknik,

It's nice to see that you are advertising that "completely useless" as you put it, microphone to sell your Visor. You said earlier, "Their advertising is technically legal, but certainly immoral by the standards of any industry other than the computer industry." But yet your doing the same thing to sell your Visor. The following was taken from your own sales pitch on Ebay.

Handspring Visor Deluxe!!
Handspring is running out of their supply of these amazing devices! Their wait time runs between 6 and 8 weeks, so this is one of your last chances to get your hands on your GRAPHITE Handspring before the year end!
This device is BRAND NEW and the box is complete and fully loaded for immediate use.


What's inside the box:

Visor Deluxe Handheld Computer in Graphite Color
Hard Plastic Cover
Leather Slip Case
USB HotSync Cradle (If you need a serial cradle, they are available from Handspring)
Stylus
Palm Desktop Software
AAA Batteries
Visor Manual

Product Info:

Backlit Display
8 Whopping Megabytes of Memory!!
Infrared Communication
***Built-in Microphone***
Expansion Slot for Modem, GPS Reciever, Pager, MP3 Player, Universal Remote, Memory Card, and others!!
Palm OS Software
Datebook, AddressBook, To Do List, Memo Pad, and more!!

For more details, you can go to Handspring's Website at www.handspring.com

Shipping will be $10.



[This message has been edited by 150pilot (edited 12-10-1999).]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 25

BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Well done, niknik! Great way to undermine your own point!

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

Interesting, you may have a point about slightly misleading advertising, but it just goes to show you the value of a little research. Just about every article on it I saw early on which mentioned the microphone, also said it was not useful unless you had a springboard that could take advantage of it. To base one's purchase on a product ad is asking for trouble.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Posts: 45

Niknik, I'll agree with the others that yours is an overreaction. I felt that Handspring's decision to include a mic and to place it at the bottom of the product was an example of forward thinking, not deception. They knew that springboards would be developed that use microphones, and they figured that a good place for the microphone would be somewhere near_your_mouth...
I never got the impression that it was self-contained, and I don't feel mislead.

I agree that their CS really sucked, but the idea that they won't survive because of three months of bad CS is laughable.

Enjoy your palm....

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 6

Ok you caught me being a hypocrit. I regrettably advertised on ebay the built-in microphone. In my defense, it was an accident that was caused by a little cutting and pasting and not reviewing. I wish I had removed it.

However, the real issue concerning the microphone is not whether or not I left HS's advertising intact or not. HS included the mike and advertised it but failed to state that it was unusable in its current form. It was suggested that this is similar to slots in modern computers that are available for further expansion. I reject this argument. These slots are advertised as being available for further expansion. HS did no such thing, leading a browser of only their information to believe that it works as-is. A closer metaphor would be to advertise a computer for sale that can record sound, but not advertising that this is so only if you buy the sound board separately.

The mike could easily have been included in a module. Many of the modules under development peek over the top of the Visor. A similar design could incorporate a mike. This position isn't significantly worse (or better) than its current position.

Morover, the Visor would have been cheaper to manufacture without the mike. For a company so interested in the bottom line, it seems strange to spend extra money on the manufacturing unless it gives you some other advantage. It stand by my original statement regarding the reasons for the mike's inclusion in the Visor.

Now, we've spent a long time discussing the mike. This is a secondary issue to me. The primary issue has always been bad CS. I steadfastly refuse to give money to people who treat me poorly. Does anyone have any comments on this issue?

PS. Traveller, why the ad hominid attack? Everyone else in this discussion has been congenial, angry perhaps, but still decent. This discussion does not benefit from caveman tactic such as name-calling. I have always found that people in a comprimised position who lack the ability to reply on an intellectual level resort to such tactics. I hope you are not such a person.

I wonder what else you had said that would cause the moderator to edit your message.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 3

I also noticed you went straight for a profit ($300 opening bid). You complained about the company and the product, but chose not to go the fair route by even starting the bid at the retail price of $249. I guess when there is a profit to be made.....

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 11

Did you try talking to a supervisor? My friend and I both ordered visors. He had a little trouble, and decided to cancel his order. The person he talked to first said that he couldn't do this. He then asked to speak to a supervisor, and the supervisor let him cancel, plus he let him send back his extra cradle that he ordered.

So, now I am all alone waiting for my visor, and my friend is going with the Palm V.

later



------------------
Daniel J. Wharton

Founder and System Administrator of
-----------------------------------------------------
t h e b u r n i t n e t w o r k - http://burnit.net
-----------------------------------------------------

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Chelmsford, MA USA
Posts: 62

"Now, we've spent a long time discussing the mike. This is a secondary issue to me. The primary issue has always been bad CS. I steadfastly refuse to give money to people who treat me poorly. Does anyone have any
comments on this issue?"

I do, but unfortunately due to your statement of "I refuse to differentiate between outsourced CS and corporate" I doubt it would be worth the effort.

I think you show poor customer service (yes as a seller on eBay you do have some responsibility to provide accurate info on your product and should clarify anything that might be confusing) yourself by just cutting and pasting the same info you are condemning - and when called on it here in this forum did you go back and update your listing to explain the microphone better? You can do that on eBay. Plus you refuse to give money to a company with such poor customer service, but expect another person who may not have done their homework on the unit (like yourself) to give you more money for your mistake.

Sounds to me like you want someone else to pay for your lack of research on the product you wanted to purchase. Not to knock you or anything, but do you usually make purchases without doing a little more reading? I first heard about the Visor via an article in a magazine, and I knew about the mic from that article.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Gainesville, FL USA
Posts: 112

(I think he listed it at $300 because he secretly hopes that is doesn't sell and he can continue to complain.)

Niknik: Ok, we realize that you're mad. Thank you for sharing and I'm glad that you at least stayed in the Palm OS family. Now get over it. Life is too short.

HS never said the microphone was useful for anything. They just said that one was included. You assumed the uses.

The Springboard slot is useless, too (except for carrying post-it notes), unless you buy a module.



[This message has been edited by Axeman (edited 12-10-1999).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 6

Yes, I went "straight for the profit" as you say. I noticed that past prices on ebay were over 300. I set the bid time at 3 days and didn't want the ad to stand out with a too low price as people might think it defective as compared to others. Also, I could have returned the unit to HS as I've only had it for three days and I wanted to make sure that I didn't lose my money.

I can not change the ebay ad after a bid has been made. Maybe you should do your homework as everyone here has suggested to me.

Still, the mike is useless and it not advertised as such. The slot is also useless, but is advertised correctly as being available for future expansion. I thought we already covered this.

Moreover, comparing a tangible object to an empty space doesn't seem reasonable in this case.

I did talk with a supervisor at HS and was told that "these are the policies..." He would not further elaborate or help in any way. As a final remark, he suggested refusing the package or calling my bank.

I realize that I'm preaching to Visor/HS affectianodos, but still I feel that my grievances were heard.

Thank you for the discussion.

Signing off,
JT