Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 125

Back around January, I got seriously bitten by the PDA bug, and I couldn't choose between a Palm IIIx and a Visor. After starting a thread on this discussion board, I ended up getting the Palm IIIx because (a) Franklin Covey was bundling the Franklin Planner software (~$100 value) with the Palm IIIx for free, and (b) Handspring was still in the midst of dreadful shipping and customer service issues, and I didn't want to wait until Memorial Day to get a device I ordered in January! My Palm IIIx is a lifesaver -- I use it nearly all the time, and I haven't regretted my decision at all.

HOWEVER... I've had the Palm long enough now to get an idea of what my next PDA would be like and what sorts of things I'd like for it to do. In addition to what my Palm IIIx does, I'm interested in getting a PDA with more memory (at least 8 MB) and having the capability to go wireless to check email and the like.

I think I will probably upgrade in a few months, and I have been keeping an eye on the various PDA's to see what I like. It's basically coming down to the Visor and these newer "Pocket PC's" like the Compaq iPaq handheld. Here is how I stack the pros and cons of each:

* The Visor has Palm OS, which means I don't have to pitch the programs I already have for my IIIx. On the other hand, I would like to use Excel and Word (two programs that, as a college prof, I use a lot) and the Pocket PC seems to be less likely to have compatibility problems. (I had problems with getting the MS Money for Palm OS to work.)

* The Visor has the springboard for Flash memory, which means I could put things like my Bible program, which I use only when on the road, out of the way of the regularly used memory but could still use it if I wanted. On the other hand, the Compaq handheld has something like 32 MB of memory (is that for real?) which seems limitless, given what I do with it. (I have about 65% of the 4 MB on the IIIx in use currently.)

* The Compaq handheld has a lot of things built-in, such as the voice recorder, that you would need a springboard for with the Visor. I like that a lot. But... what about battery usage? That's got to be a major drain on the batteries, and what if I am on the road and can't recharge?

* Most of all, what is going to happen with the Pocket PC in the wake of the Microsoft ruling? I read the article excerpted on this site, and that seems like a grim prediction indeed -- sounds like a bad idea to sink $450 into a device that may not ever get supported fully.

So once again, I throw my decision-making to the Visor community -- what are your takes on the above points and the Pocket PC? (Anyone who knows anything about the Sony palm device is free to share, too.) Thanks --
-bertbert

PS: My wife gets the Palm IIIx, whatever happens. :-)

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 109

BertBert,

Let me first warn you, but I'm sure you're already aware, you'll get a lot of biased replies here

Some thinsg to remember when comparing to the PocketPC:

1. Although they have a lot of memory, this memory is partitioned between storage and execution (kind of like a hard disk and RAM). So, a 32MB device might use 16MB for storage and 16MB for execution. My understanding is that a running program must be copied from storage to the other RAM before it will be run. On the otherhand, the PalmOS runs programs in-place (and in fact, their state is preserved).

2. PocketPC programs (and data?) tend to me considerably larger than their Palm equivalents. Microsoft is not known for compact programgs. Thus, if you have 32BB of RAm and your calendar program takes up 2MB, that's be equivalent to an 8MB Visor with a 512kb calendar program. Most Palm programs are considerably smaller, thus, the RAM requirement is not as great.

Other than that, I have only opinions, which I'll refrain from. OK, no I won't. I prefer PalmOS because I agree with the philosphy of being a PDA instead of a squished-down over-freatured mini-notebook-computer. If I wanted a notebook, I'd buy one (doh! I actually do have one!). Instead, I want -- and have -- a PDA in my Graphite Visor Deluxe.

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Trinition ([email protected])

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Visor vs. Pocket PC? Oh no, not again . . .

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 64

* The Compaq handheld has a lot of things built-in, such as the voice recorder, that you would need a springboard for with the Visor. I like that a lot. But... what about battery usage? That's got to be a major drain on the batteries, and what if I am on the road and can't recharge?

One thing about these "Pocket PC" devices (bull****, it's still winCE, Bill can't fool me), is that they seem to have a lot of bells and whistles in them (mp3 players, video playback, color, speakers, lots of ram, hard drives). It seems that Microshaft has missed the point of a PDA once again! Take a look at the physical dimensions on most of the winCE / pocket PC units and compare those to a palm unit. They weigh more, are general larger, and you can bet that with full color screens more RAM and faster processors, they undoubtedly do not have the same battery life as a Palm/Handspring/IBM unit.


* Most of all, what is going to happen with the Pocket PC in the wake of the Microsoft ruling? I read the article excerpted on this site, and that seems like a grim prediction indeed -- sounds like a bad idea to sink $450 into a device that may not ever get supported fully.

The support factor would be the least of my worries anyway. First and foremost, the unit is a *Compaq* unit, so Compaq should be responsible. Secondly, as we are probably very familiar with already, Microshaft is not necessarily known for the service and support department anyway! Then again, neither are Palm and Handspring,... At least for PalmOS-related issues, you've got plenty of websites/newsgroups with people to answer questions and stuff,...

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

quote:

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Originally posted by Gameboy70:
Visor vs. Pocket PC? Oh no, not again . . .

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Where's foo fighter when you need him???

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MarkEagle - Ice is nice!

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

As Gameboy said.."Oh no, not again!"

Hi BertBert! (where did you get that name?)

My recommendation is to hold out for as long as you can. As it stands now, were on the verge of a major change in the Palm platform. Palm is moving to a faster 206MHZ StrongArm processor to replace the venerable old DragonBall EZ. This means such capabilities as higher pixel resolution and multimedia will now be possible. PalmOS 4.0 should support these features.

At the very least I would wait a week for new handhelds to be showcased at PC Expo on June 27-28. Sony will be showing off their long awaited Palm based PDA, and Handspring may even unveil a color device (that's a rumor).

If you absolutely MUST have a new PDA now, I'd go with a Visor. It's less expensive, has a modular design concept, and offers a great value. I own a Pocket PC and I do like it a lot. But they are EXTREMELY OVERPRICED! They're excellent PDAs and a lot of fun use, but do you need one? Probably not. My recommendation is; don't buy one unless you really..really...really want one. The only case in which I would definitely recommend a PPC is if you wanted a color PDA. Quite frankly, the Palm IIIc has a rather poor display (low resolution) and is terribly overpriced without adding any new features to this platform. After using both platforms, I can honestly say that a PalmOS based device can do most of what PocketPC can do through third party software. There are a few areas that a Pocket PC does perform better than a Palm, such as color (PPC has a higher pixel resolution), multimedia, ebooks, file transfer, and better syncing with Windows and Outlook (what do you expect these are MS products). But for most users this isn't a big deal, and you should NEVER pay for features you don't want or don't intend to use. You'd just be throwing your money away!

I think what all of us here want is a device that lies somewhere in the middle. At a point where Palm ends and Pocket PC begins lies the future of handheld computing. It's in this gray area that we'll see a simple multimedia savvy device with a color display and wireless capabilities...and most importantly, doesn't cost much money. A sort of "iMac" of PDAs. Until that day comes, we all have to pick a device that best fits our needs and be happy! Or in my case...disgruntled!

As to whether or not PocketPC will die as a result of a Microsoft split, it's difficult to say for sure what will happen. Personally, I think the platform's high price tag coupled with lack of software support would most likely spell its doom before any legislation would.

But again, I would definitely wait to see what Sony or HS are cooking up. Who knows, maybe even Palm will (for once) show some testicular fortitude and deliver a cool multimedia device. Someone is going to lay an egg sooner or later...let's just wait to see what hatches!!

Good luck!


[This message has been edited by foo fighter (edited 06-20-2000).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by Trinition:
Although they have a lot of memory, this memory is partitioned between storage and execution...My understanding is that a running program must be copied from storage to the other RAM before it will be run.

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

Foo Sed:

quote:

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My recommendation is to hold out for as long as you can. As it stands now, were on the verge of a major change in the Palm platform.

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Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by homer:
I will say that, IMHO, waiting for the "next best thing" in computers/technology/electronics is a waste of time. Buy the product when you need it. There will ALWAYS be a better product out a week later. You can't dwell on that.

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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 125

Hi again all,

Thanks for your insights. Interesting stuff so far. Let me clarify a few things:

1. I saw a couple of "oh no not again" posts a ways up -- my apologies if this is flogging a dead horse, but I have not been on this site in some time (not since January) and I did not see any similar discussions of this issue here when I posted a few days ago.

2. What I buy is not dictated by the results of these postings. I am only looking for information, not for someone to make decisions for me.

3. Yes, I know that asking whether a Visor is better than a ____ (insert PDA name here) on "visorcentral.com" is likely to get me biased information, but in fact one of the things I have been impressed with regarding this discussion board is that more people *aren't* simply slobbering Visor zombies but are at least capable of presenting both sides of an argument. So don't worry, I can think critically with whatever you give me.

They say that the best time to buy a new computer was yesterday, and no doubt the same is true for a PDA. I am not burning to buy one tomorrow ("a few months", I think I said) and there is a great deal that could transpire at this Expo at the end of the month. I was not aware of the impending change of CPU, so that thickens the plot some more. Is there an article on this site that says a bit more about that?

Thanks again,
BertBert

PS: Anybody else think that "Slobbering Visor Zombies" would be a good name for a rock band? :-)

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by BertBert:
What I buy is not dictated by the results of these postings. I am only looking for information, not for someone to make decisions for me.

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Good! that's the correct attitude. You seem quite intelligent enough to make your own decisions, the point I was trying to make is that you should avoid the opinions of those who make statements like; "Don't buy Brand B because they suck!...Brand A rules!" That's a nonsensical opinion uttered by people who are clearly biased towards their particular PDA. Consider the source!

In the end I recommend going to an electronics store to try out various handhelds, and see which one you like. You have to weigh every aspect each product with an open mind. Ask yourself these questions; "What do I want my PDA to do?"..."what am I going to use it for?"..."how much am I willing to spend?"..."do I want a color display!"..."how important is battery life, do I want the device to last all day, or for several days?"..."Do I want lots of third party software?, or am I satisfied with the depth that the built-in applications and features offer?"..."do I want such features as digital audio and ebooks combined with color display, or am I paying for something I really don't want or need?"

Once you've agreed on what you want, or are willing to pay for, you can narrow down your choices. My best advice is not to get too caught up in this decision making process. This really isn't comparable to financing a car or finding an apartment. Try to make this fun, and not brain surgery.

As I've said before, just pick which ever product you like best, and go from there!

Hope this helps!

Good luck BertBert...god I love that name.

[This message has been edited by foo fighter (edited 06-20-2000).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by Cashman:
they seem to have a lot of bells and whistles in them (mp3 players, video playback, color, speakers, lots of ram, hard drives

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Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

He might of been thinking about the IBM micro drive which will work in Pocket PC's
BEN

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

It would help to know exactly what you intend to do with it. For some, a 2 Mb Visor or Palm, with cradle, would be sufficient. Others may need a full-fledged laptop.

A PocketPC attempts in some ways to be both. I'm not saying a PocketPC is bad, but it would seem that the price point is too high for the functionality included. Contrary to what some may think, if one really needs to doing "real" computing on the road, probably the best bet would be a laptop. If one needs to have an address book, work on small articles, write email, then a Palm/Visor with portable keyboard is likely enough. However, (ignoring the potential stability, software availability, and speed issues of PocketPC for the moment) the extra bells and whistles of PocketPC are nice. But, you have to be prepared to pay for them.

Competition is good but each device has its plusses and minuses.

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Eugene Hsieh
Editor, VisorCentral FAQ
Come visit my homepage.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by Eug:
A PocketPC attempts in some ways to be both.

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Registered: May 2000
Location: White Bear Township, MN USA
Posts: 5

You mentioned that you go out on the road with your PDA. Here's something else to consider. The battery pack on the Pocket PCs is only rated for about 8 hours. You then need to put it back on a cradle or charge it somehow. My Visor Dlx batteries last for 3 week at a crack.

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Michael Bailey
Enjoy yourself, or someone else if they'll let you.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

quote:

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Originally posted by CaptainBailey:
The battery pack on the Pocket PCs is only rated for about 8 hours.

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