Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Urbana, Ohio U.S.
Posts: 33

If they drop much lower (i.e. $325 range) I'm gonna' cancel BOTH Black Visor Deluxe I ordered and get Palm Vx's.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Utah
Posts: 44

Where did you find a Vx for $369? I had a chance to pick one up for $250 (a colleague went to a Palm convention) a few weeks ago, but I hadn't done all my PDA homework by that time, so I wasn't prepared to jump on it.

I was hoping that Handspring would flood the market with Visor and the competitive frenzy would prompt 3Com to drop their prices drastically. I suspect that 3Com is keeping their prices at the same levels until Handspring starts shipping to retailers. Either we wait months to get a Visor or we pay a higher price for a Palm.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Orem, UT, USA
Posts: 22

Where? I'm interested!

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Lincoln, NE 68506
Posts: 23

I think it is interesting the number of people who were Palm V users who prefer the Visor. My Visor will be my first PDA (I hope!!) For me, the way the implemented the rechargable batteries in the V makes it less attractive. The clerk who showed it to me (at Best Buy..I know, not the best source of info) said that batteries would last at least a year before they need to be replaced. You can't replace them yourself, what are you supposed to do...be without your PDA while the factory replaces the batteries?? It is a great size, but IMHO not a smart buy. (But at least you can get one!)

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Urbana, Ohio U.S.
Posts: 33

Don't remember the website. I did a price search on either cnet.com or zdnet.com and the best price listed was $388.00, but when I went to the actual link, the price was $369.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Donsell:

Assuming the batteries were not charging fully and did need to be replaced, all you would need to do is call Palm and have them overnight a replacement unit, which they will do without a fee. They take a credit card number as a deposit, but send you a new/repaired unit via Airborne and you use the box in which the replacement was shipped to you as the return box for your unit. Once you've swapped units and yours is packed up, you call Airborne and they come pick it up.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 242

Raises an interesting question...If Handspring had NO CS problems and Palm's prices were comparable to Handsprings, would you rather have a Visor Deluxe or a Palm Vx?

The big advantage of the Palm to my mind is the ergonomics. I love that lightweight chassis.

But then the rest of the issues to me all weigh in favor of the Visor. First, there is the Springboard issue. The backup advantage alone is worth it. If I'm in the middle of a 6 week trip and changing batteries, it sure would take the pressure off right? And then that brings us to the batteries. The Visor (old Palm) system seems more flexible to me than the cradle recharge. I recognize that depending on how you travel, what you do, it may either not matter, or you may prefer the Palm Vx system. But I'd rather have the batteries.

So, on the whole, I'd give an edge to the Visor. Assuming they get their CS in line, if Palm does not radically lower prices, it is no contest.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 56

Vx prices will not drop below ~$350. The Palm V only RECENTLY dropped below $320 and that was only under the pressure of the Visor release and the Palm Vx release. Why will prices stay high? Because the target market for the V/Vx is the Corporate executive. This is why the V appears in the Sharper Image Catalouge for $449 even with the recent price drops! The Palm V/Vx is not a functional line, it is a pure style line and that is why it is priced so high. It is marketed as a status symbol, not as a road warior tool. So in short I would guess that Vx prices will stay around $350-$380 for quite awhile.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Mark:

I agree. The reason I bought a Visor in the first place was the price issue, and the Springboard was a secondary thing. The backup module, mebbe the mp-3 thing...

But the price issue was the key.

However, after seeing their customer service in action (Heh) as well as technical support (zzzzz), I dumped them ASAFP. The product, on the whole, is good, but if the company behind it is lousy, how valuable can the product be?

As far as price, I got a special discount which ended up costing me $275 for a Vx, the hardshell case and a second cradle. IOW, it ended up costing me less to have the Vx than the Visor Deluxe. At that price, I don't care about the Handspring CS/TS issues. I would have never even called them if I had known about this discount situation.

The Springboard is a worthwhile factor, but overall I'd wait until they were in stores and Handspring actually had some kind of organization before buying anything from them. That, and I'm sitll waiting for $300+ credit from them...

The battery issue is obviously something to keep in mind, as you said, and if the list price ($250/Visor Dx vs. $450/Vx) is compared, there is no contest. The only problem is that two months have passed since Handspring realized they had Customer Service problems, so assuming they will get their sh*t together is, IMHO, not a when but an if.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 242

Of course, it is useful to keep in mind that Palm Vx has shipping problems too. SOme of these discount prices for Palm Vx are just illusions and vaporware. I just tried to order the lowest priced one Cnet offered up. They take the order, not a SINGLE mention that they have nothing in stock. Then the CS emails me (on my inquiry...) and says they won't even get their order from 3com until mid-December.

Gee. By this standard, at least Handspring is trying to be up front....

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Lincoln, NE 68506
Posts: 23

That is interesting. The Buz on the newgroups is that Palm V prices will drop by $100 after Thanksgiving. That may be why they are advertising the low price now but not shipping until mid-December.

So the batteries are covered under the 1 year warranty. Is cross shipping available if your batteries go bad after the warranty expires?

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Donsell:

The way it works is either a) you send it back to them and they send you a repair/replacement.

Or, the way I do it, is to call them up, tell them I'm having a problem with the unit (any unit, not just the V/Vx or the VII), and tell them I want an overnight replacement. They take a credit card number as a deposit (without charging you a dime -- try that with Handspring) and the next day Airborne shows up with a replacement for you. You take out the new unit, pack your unit in the box the new one came in, call Airborne, and they come the next day and pick it up. So it's no muss, no fuss (IOW, instead of a week or more for $30-charged overnight replacement, you are never w/o a unit).

As far as the one-year warranty, I've bought products from them and had cost-free repair from 3Com/Palm a couple times after the one-year period. They stand behind their products.

That's the benefit of doing business with a legitimate company with a real Customer Service base.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 242

Hot Carl, I think you misunderstood my point.

Assuming the negatives of Palm (price) and Visor (CS) were both weeded out, the question becomes which would you actually prefer?

My point is that I like the Visor better in general--if there were no other issues. I like the 2 double a batteries. (Gee, I don't want to be in Europe on a long trip trying to figure out how to recharge lith batteries, or carrying around the cradle). I like the Springboard for the same reason--it sure is great if you have a springboard backup and take the worry out of losing data in the middle of a long trip every time you change or have to recharge batteries.

The big advantage for Palm Vx(assuming it had a $250 price tag, again, and all other non-tech stuff was equal) is that it is thin and light. This is indeed an advantage! No matter how good a PDA is, what use is it if you decide to leave it home because it weighs your shirt pocket down, etc?

Still, I think the VIsor has some other advantages; it is my choice if everything involving non-techy issues is equal.

[This message has been edited by Mark Squires (edited 11-22-1999).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 242

>>As far as the one-year warranty, I've bought products from them and had cost-free repair from 3Com/Palm a couple times after the one-year period. They stand behind their products.<<

My experience with 3Com CS is not so sanguine. My Palm 3 died--and I placed a Visor order. 3Com sold me an exorbitantly priced Palm 3 not too long back. NOw, of course, it dies and it is "out of warranty." They want $100 to fix it. Which at this point is probably more than the unit is worth.

Further, when I tried to return for repairs anyway, they insisted on sending me a box first--further delaying matters. Apparently, boxes made in my area, with bubblewrap, etc. aren't good enough. I have to blow another week. At that point, I told their CSR that I'd just grit my teeth, and wait for my visor.

She says, "You're an idiot." And hangs up.

Now, that's what I call gold standard customer service. Sell an overpriced unit at rip off prices. Charge more to fix it than its worth. Delay the repairs as long as possible. Call your customer an idiot. Yup. Handspring should emulate them!

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Marietta, Ohio USA
Posts: 92

Any "real" buzz or undercurrent that Palm V and Vx prices will drop after Thanksgiving ?
I suspect they will...

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Marietta, Ohio USA
Posts: 92

For anyone interested.. Outpost.com had the Palm Vx for $399.95 WHICH INCLUDES
OVERNIGHT SHIPPING via Airborne Express !! This is the best deal I have come across
on the web to date. I called them tonight and they had 700 in stock.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Mark:

Well, assuming that price wasn't an issue and the Customer Service was offered by the same entity, I'd probably go with the Vx only because I think it's a better-made unit. If I did a lot of traveling and didn't have PC access, I'd go with the Visor for the battery- and backup-issue. However, I prefer the Vx's graphics and the form factor. I like the fact that I can slip it into the Palm Hard Case and pop it into my dress shirt pocket and forget it's there. Can't do that with the Visor, even if it's just the Visor without the clip-on case or the slipcase.

Of course, the point is moot: I'll never buy anything from Handspring, simply because I don't believe they'll ever achieve the customer service bliss that some people expect them to reach. My guess is they'll close their doors before May when the color units come out -- if I'm afraid to tie up my credit card for a $250 unit, I certainly wouldn't invest $400 or more with this company, no matter who they choose to represent them on their phones or online.

As far as the one-year period, I've had four Pilots (1000, 5000, PPProfessional and the III) before the Vx, which is the one I use now. I've never had any problem with warranty replacement, and I passed along a PPPro to a friend but had it repaired before doing so. I've never had the problems you described with Palm, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your version is what actually happened. First off, I'm sure there are morons who work for every single company in this world, so I'd chock your CSR story to the one of the few that work at Palm -- unlike Handspring, morons seem to be the exception rather than the rule, luckily -- but the more important thing to keep in mind is not that Palm sold you an exorbitantly-priced III but that you bought an exorbitantly-priced III. Unfortunately or otherwise, it takes two to fulfill a contract (as well as a tango ;-)

As far as the box is concerned, what I would have done (and I have done) is request overnight replacement, in which case they would have shipped you out a replacement immediately, which you would receive the next business day, and you could return the defective unit in that same box.

Either way, for me, I'd have gone with Handspring and helped with some competition for Palm, but the combination of no customer service, no tech support for problems (my unit lasted six days) and the fact that I want to do business with a company in which I have faith) scared me off. What led me to consider the Visor was price, pure and simple, but I can't and I won't put my faith (and my business and personal contact info) in the hands of an unreliable entity like Handspring.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 35

HELLO! Handspring DOES NOT handle CS and SALES issues, it's a third party company. Don't blame Handspring, blame the other company. Even with the amount of orders (and the amount of cancels) they won't close their doors (at least not until I get my Visor)



------------------
Signing off,

C. Russell
[email protected]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 14

Hot Carl:

I've read a great number of your posts and I'm wondering something...why are you still here?

I realize that this is a free country and a free internet, but it seems to me that you're hanging around and posting to the groups just to badmouth Handspring when you don't even own a Visor. Not to mention the fact that you are continuously saying that Handspring won't make it through next year. Are you trying to use rumors to kill the company?

I, like a great many people here, had my doubts about when I would get my Visors, and I've still not received the serial cradle and backup module I ordered, but I'm a patient man and I knew they would come. I also admit that they have authorized my card twice, so I am watching it to make sure that it's handled correctly. Actually, since I have the room on my card, I'm sort of hoping that they send me two more Visors so I can sell them on ebay. A little profit for me would help ease my pain. ;-)

I'm not trying to slam you, even though it may sound like it. I'm just curious about your presence here. When a store pisses me off, I don't go back. I may give a negative review if someone asks me, but I don't picket the store because I know that if they continue with the same behavior, they'll kill themselves. I believe this will be the case with Handspring.

All of that aside, I am really enjoying my Visor. I've loaded a dozen programs and two different versions of the bible and I still have about 3.9 meg left to play with!

Handspring...I'd like my serial cradle and my backup module please.

Mediam
Download the Visor, from you PC,
Get a app for your friend, save some money over Palm III

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 155

Mediam:

Fair nuff. First off, I'm checking posts on a regular basis to see if and when any credible break-through occurs vis-a-vis issuance of credits. I'm still waiting, and it shouldn't take longer than ten days in the worst possible scenario to credit someone's account. It's now well beyond 2 1/2 weeks. Letting people know about this on a regular basis, if nothing else, let's them know how much improvement Handspring has thus been unable to achieve.

Second, I'm keeping tabs so that if/when a class-action suit or other action via the FTC commences, I'm part thereof. I agree that a company (if it practices bad business policy with regularity) will kill itself. Familiarity with the situation is therefore, IMHO, significant.

Third, I've read some posts regarding the Visor (coupled with Handspring's version of customer service and technical support) being the best PDA out there, and I disagree, so I've shared my opinion(s) with people, specifically with some people addressing the repair/replacement of Palms and Visors. Since I've successfully managed on a number of occasions repair/replacement of the former but not of the latter, I figured I would respond from experience rather than hypothetically offer conjecture about Handspring's non-improvement.