Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 2

I have heard that with Sony CLIE and TRG PRO you cannot actually run software from the expansion slots but that the files have to be loaded to internal ROM first. I'm also confused about how these memory expansion slots can be written to in regards to database storage. Can they be or do the databases also have to be loaded into internal ROM first?

In this regards how does the Handspring Visor compare in terms of memory expandability? My guess is the Visor is similar to the Sony CLIE and TRG PRO. I'm assuming its a Palm OS limitation.

Does anyone have answers to these questions? Does anyone have actual experience with regards to memory expansion? I'm a Dr. and I'm looking for memory expandability (especially with large medical databases)in a PDA. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
--Scott McLain

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

You can run apps from the flash memory module on the Visor as long as any database that needs to be written to resides in the main RAM... data cannot be written to the module itself. The memory modules make perfect sense for large reference databases that are never written to.

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Registered: Oct 2000
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Posts: 57

So if I...

So can I put...A bunch of game son the module and then lets say I get a high score..will it save the score? Or will is crash my visor lol?


-Brian

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Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

Re: So if I...

quote:

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Originally posted by BrianX124
will it save the score? Or will is crash my visor... ?

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Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 247

Okay here's the thing:

The Sony CLIE and the TRGPro CAN store AND run apps from their various storage mediums (be it Memory Stick or CF card).

What you CANNOT do is store the particular application's DATABASE files onto the card.

This applies equally to the Visor and the 8MB Flash module as well.

For example, you can store the Galax PRC file (the actual game) into Flash, but you cannot store the PDB file (where the game state, high scores, etc are kept).

This is because the PDB files are constantly being updated every time you play the game, and the flash card is not fast enough to support this kind of dynamic updating.

However, there are some Database files that you can store on the Flash Module - for example, a DOC file and most e-book formats can be safely stored. If you have a DOC editor like SmartDoc (now called QuickWord), the file can be read but there won't be an option to edit it.

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Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

There is a subtlety here that I feel needs to be pointed out...

smclain9802 is correct: The TRGPro can not run programs directly off of a CF card. (I assume that the Sony Clie is the same here - just with Memory Sticks instead of Compact Flash.)

BUT TRG has software called AutoCF that gives you the illusion that you are running the program off of the CF memory. What is does is to first automatically copy the program from the CF card to RAM then run it there. The user does not really notice this except for a slight delay as the copy occurs. TRG also wrote the software so that any well behaved program can also read and write to PDB files (data files) on the CF card. It does this by intercepting the standard OS database calls and using its own driver to copy the database records between RAM the CF card as needed.

Now the Handspring 8MB Flash modules does NOT work this way. This is because it uses a slightly different kind of Flash memory. The 8MB Flash module use flash that is fully randomly accessable. This means that you can read any byte from anywhere in the flash chip at any time. CF cards, Smartmedia cards, and Memory Sticks use serial access Flash. This is, you have to read the data out of the flash serially, starting only at certain addresses and in certain sized chunks. This form of Flash is cheaper. The serial limitation is not a problem for digital cameras and MP3 players which is the primary use for such cards.

For accessing a large file, such as a medical database, a TRGPro and a large CF card will work great. If you don't mind waiting a few months there is a guy on this board, dkessler, that has posted instructions on how you can build your own CF card Springboard adapter. He is still working on the software, and his first release will not have the same functionality as AutoCF. That will take him a few more months.

Also, Innogear has just announced the InnoDrive/MS that is a Memory Stick to Springboard adapter. I don't know if thier software will have AutoCF like functionality.

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 2

So which is better?

From MPM's note it would seem that the TRGPro (or ?the Sony Clie) may be the better way to go, since people are trying to emmulate what the TRGPro does by making a CF card adapter (or Memory Stick adapter). So why are so many people going with the Visor? What's the limitations of the Visor (other than 8 Mb module -vs- x Mb CF card)? Also, I'm a Newton 2100 owner and there was limitation in the Newton OS as to the maximum size of the CF card that could be used safely. Does such a limitation except with TRGPro or Sony Clie?

Thanks for the replies. Since I sunk a large amount of lost money in the Newton, I'm trying harder this time before buying another PDA. Any other options on which PDA to get?

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 78

Handspring Visor is a great choice to maintain medical info. I am also a physician and love my Visor with the 8 mb springboard memory module. I have the Merck manual, Epocrates, and a large cancer file from the NCI that I have all downloaded for free from the web. One web site PDAMD.com offers to sell the Visor with quite a bit of free software loaded on. Had I known, I would have bought mine through them! I also put my own reference documents on the Visor with Documents to Go.

The only drawback is if you desperately want wireless. This is not a major concern for me at this time.

It is so great to have all the reference material I need in one place - in my Visor. Plus I still have room for my games, Avant Go channels, etc.

Registered: Jun 2000
Location:
Posts: 32

why the visor is better...

Hello, I'm a 4TH year med. student and have being using the visor for almost a year now. I consider memory as the most important aspect in my choice of a PDA. I have done a lot of research into TRGpro and the Sony, they use AutoCF(TRGpro) and MS(auto)-gate(Sony Clie) program to copy then run applications. In my opinion, the 8 mb module works the best. I could run applications seemlessly off the module with no time delays, the extra 8 mb's almost become a part of the visor.

The only limitation is that there are some data bases cannot be stored in the module's flash memory. The references from Skyscape cannot be store in the module, but Skyscape's reader application can. The references from handheldmed both reader and data can be stored without problems. Almost of the medical calculators, docs (using tealdoc reader), tealinfo app and docs, and isilo app and docs CAN be run directly off the module.

A lot of software developers are modifying their data bases so that they can be stored and run from flash memory.

The problem with the TRGpro and Clie is that they have to copy an application into the PDA's RAM then launches the application. Which requires that you have spare RAM in you PDA for the application to copy onto!
------------------------------------------------------------

On Sony's site
http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/support/clie/faq/index.html

FAQ's states:
Question:
A Message Appears Indicating That Memory Is Low When Copying A File From The Memory Stick To The Handheld Organizer.

Answer:
To avoid this issue, it is necessary to have at least twice the amount of memory available on the Memory Stick as you are copying to the organizer. For example, more than 40 KB memory is required when copying a 20 KB file.
------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure how the AutoCF works for the TRGpro. It would seems to work on the same basis. An application must be copied onto the PDA's spare RAM, then run, then deleted when you exit to program... well, that does not seem very memory efficient to me. I'm also not sure about the delay it would take to copy an application when you want to run it, and delete the app when you exit the program.

Another point: some medical applications are fairly large: medcal is over 100kb's and patientkeeper is over 300kb's!!! In an arena where you want to access information fast, I'm not sure I could afford to wait for stuff to be-->copied-->then run-->then deleted. Also I'm not sure how data stored in the CF or Memory Stick are read, can the data be read directly from the CF/Memory Stick? Or do they have to be copied too. Some of the med. references -The Merck- are over 4 mb!!

The 8 mb module avoids this problem, apps run directly from the module with absolutely no delays and most data can be stored and run from the module without problems.

Hope this helps.








[Edited by KennethAaron425 on 11-22-2000 at 02:04 AM]

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