Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

I've had my VDX for.... many days now. I like it, and I won't be returning it for anything less than it stops working / or / I end up with something better. (That probably won't happen)

Well, someday I hope to have a colour (<---fancy European spelling!) screen PDA, but I'm still not impressed with the tradeoffs, mostly short battery life. Not to mention, I would not need it all the time.

I think I've found the solution:

The Springboard Color Screen. I sketched some prototype pictures, but I did not have time to scan them today, so you can see my idea later this week.

Basically, this unit is the same width and height as the Visor, and attaches via... you guessed it, the Springboard slot, and would be powered by the batteries in the Visor. Since color screens can be draining, this solution could be solved by a rechargable battery pack that fits into the regular slot for batteries on the Visor. It would be recharged via a separate unit that plugged into the electrical socket itself.

The screen size would roughly be the same as the one on the HandEra, only color. (About the size of your Visor screen if you count the Silkscreen area as the screen) It would NOT have any silkscreen. It would have an app that turned your regular VISOR screen into the full silkscreen area for writing.

One important thing about this, is that it would need to be able to host a Springboard slot of its own, for use with such products as the Eyemodule. For this, it would have the same port as found in the Visor EDGE, and would require a sled to use the old Springboard modules. (Hey, it's better than nothing!)

My guess would be that it would come in two colors: Graphite & Ice. Possibly a silver color for the Platinum owners.

The overall thickness of the unit would certainly become an issue. The thickness of the PowerBook G4 screen would be nice, but that's wishful thinking. About the overall thickness of the EDGE would be acceptable, and certainly executable.

The screen would be double-hinged ala' iBook, which would allow it to fold over the Visor. This would make for a bulky package, but that's the beauty of it: when you don't need it, you can leave it at home.

Price is the next thing that would concern most of us. If this was made today, it would kill the Prism. Handspring would need to cut the price of the Prism down about $100.00, something LONG overdue . My price guess would be around $150-175.... The Palm color screen costs only $50.00 on the M5x series, and this would certainly be more expensive since it is a separate module and a larger screen. I think anything higher would simply not work.

I'll have some sketches for you later, and please tell me what you think! All of the details are not there, and it would require some extensive OS hacks.

And Springboard module developers, are you listening? If so, please don't steal my idea!!!!! (providing that someone else didn't come up with it before me!)

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

And why would you choose this option instead of just getting a Prism?

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We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Because--->

A: The screen would be larger (about the size of the Handera.
B: If you didn't need it, you would not have to use it, thus saving battery life
C: You would not have to buy a new Visor.
D: You would have a larger "silkscreen" (your entire Visor's screen!)


'Nuff reasons?

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 211

Re: Because--->

quote:

---

Originally posted by bblue
A: The screen would be larger (about the size of the Handera.
B: If you didn't need it, you would not have to use it, thus saving battery life
C: You would not have to buy a new Visor.
D: You would have a larger "silkscreen" (your entire Visor's screen!)


'Nuff reasons?

---

Plus It'd just be coooooooooooooooool

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

I suppose. It's an interesting idea, though I honestly don't think there'd be much a market.

The larger screen issue will probably be remedied when handera comes out with a color model.

As for not having to buy another visor, I'm not sure how feasible of a sales-pitch that is either. Traditionally, most people get new PDAs (or computers) as opposed to upgrading.

I wouldn't find the larger silk screen too useful. It is a bit awkward writing on one screen and seeing it on another.

These, of course, I merely my personal opnions.

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We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Well...

You are obviously one person who would not buy it, but I am sure there could be the possibility of a "soft" silkscreen on the color screen, although THAT would be awkward.

I personally don't NEED a new PDA, (nor can I really afford one) but I'd like color on the one I've got. I think the possibility of a screen-upgrade without voiding the warranty would be nice. And I think there IS a market for it, for people who own Visors, would like Prisms, but simply cannot affort to shell out $450.00 , and won't need it all the time, but do need it some times. (That would be quite a few of us!)

Plus, like I said earlier, the advantage would be that it's got a large viewing area, and it's removable, so when you don't need it/want it, you can use your VISOR like normal. However, if you're using the Eyemodule,wish to play a game like VRally, or SimCity, or Zap20XX , or surfing the web, you can enjoy it in full-size color. Then, when you don't need it, simply detach the screen, and slip it away. (Unlike a Color HandEra)

Now is there some company who has got the money to fund this? I guess I'll have to wait till I become a millionare...

Possible Names:
ColorJam (Innogear)
LooksGood (Good Technology)
VisorScreen (Handspring)
ScreenPlug (Memplug Maker People)
ThinScreen (ThinModem Makers)
OmniScreen (Omnisky Makers)

heheh

It would also be weighted and designed as such that you could still use it with say... the Targus Keyboard.

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

Re: Well...

quote:

---

Originally posted by bblue


ThinScreen (ThinModem Makers)
OmniScreen (Omnisky Makers)

---

Card Access and Novatel

BEN

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 46

Why why why

Gee, maybe they'll make one for my GameBoy too so I don't have to buy a GameBoy Advance.


Sorry...i'm sarcastic today.

Registered: May 2000
Location: Cleveland, Ohio 44067
Posts: 242

Figuring you want feedback...

...if you are really serious about this idea. I'll pass, obviously I am another one of those people that would not be interested in this module.

People already complain about the size of the GPS and wireless modem modules. What do you think the form factor of a color screen that also has an extra springboard slot so you can use your eyemodule will be? This springboard module does the complete opposite of what most people use the springboard slot for...to carry one less item. Now instead of one unit which can do color, you have to carry a second unit which essentially doubles the size of the current unit. Some people already shy away from the Prism because of its size and there is a reason why Handspring came out with the edge...size!

And let's consider the cost factor for a module you will use only "part time". Since users have been sticker shocked by the costs of the MP3 and cell phone modules, I would assume when all is said and done (for the small market this product I believe has), the "cooooooool factor" will be very uncool!

And let's discuss one more aspect, the research and development/delivery time. I have to believe there is at least a one year period to develop and produce the module so that it works well, without bugs. What will the market be like in one year or more? I am no expert but I am sure lot's of people will have already traded in their Palm OS 3.x handheld for a color unit using 4.0 or higher because :

1. The price of color handhelds will likey have dropped at least 25% which will squeeze the difference in price between your module and a new unit.
2. The color technology will have improved.
3. Battery technology will have improved.

I admit you are creative. I have sat around trying to think of other springboard modules I would like but have not seen but I have not come up with any. I just think this one is headed to the scrap pile.

Last edited by Doggy on 05-15-2001 at 01:39 PM

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

quote:

---

Originally posted by bblue
The screen size would roughly be the same as the one on the HandEra, only color. (About the size of your Visor screen if you count the Silkscreen area as the screen) It would NOT have any silkscreen. It would have an app that turned your regular VISOR screen into the full silkscreen area for writing.

---

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 347

<OFFTOPIC>
Dave...I just noticed that you're from Plant City. I used to live in Brandon.
</offtopic>

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Well,

Screens (supposedly) cost $85.00 in Grayscale. It would go down far less in bulk. However, I did plan it having a larger screen, something that would probably equal that in R&D. Add about $50.00 more for color, and you could probably have the entire unit itself within $50.00 - development / marketing costs. However, that doesn't mean it will take another $150.00 to get the product out. The more units that are sold, the CPU (cost per unit) can be less. And especially with this, cost is a major concern. I think under $200.00 first-year (maybe slightly more...) could get it out within the techie crowd, and once some of the initial expenses are softened, $175.00 would be possible. (Although, that would probably be minimal.)

I would also like to say, that it would be slightly interesting to see what would happen if the software development on this went open source. It would really slash the price, AND it may cut down time. Of course, this can't be simply pulled out of a hat either.

I'll post a more-formal analysis of costs on here (although, it's on a public discussion forum... that's not very formal) on my next post. I still think it's very feasable, but it's something that would require about a year before it becomes more widely accepted.

I've g2g for now. Bye.

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 278

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that this would be cool and would buy one if the price is right. I am a freshman in high school and don't have $450 to buy a Prism or M505 but would like the color screen for some things that I do. If it could be sold for $150 you may have a market. Lets see, I buy a Visor for $100, this module for $150 and I'm still under the price of a Prism and have the coolest PDA that is totally taking advantage of the springboard slot. I would want to see the option of ram in the module. I wouldn't really care if it makes my VDX heavy or if it is bulky to carry because it is showing both the true spirit of the Visor product and when not needed it can be detached. For this product to sell it will all be about the price. If you find someone to manufacture them I would be interested in helping you test them and put together a web site for them.

--David

Last edited by recordond on 05-16-2001 at 04:10 AM

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Thank you..

I must say, thank you very much, you grasped the concept perfectly. Like I said, I wanted to be able to DaisyChain the Springboard (with a sled) off the back so one could still use say.. an Eyemodule with this.)

While I'm still working on the budget (I've got a spiffy presentation I'll be releasing sometime this week with it all) , it could easily be produced FIRST-year with ESTIMATED costs WELL under my limit of $230.00. (I'm being generous. This would give it a market with Techies, but still keep it within range of the Prism.) The price goal would be $175.00 , which is what it would cost after the bulk of the overhead for R&D is pulled off.

Here's my idea: make the project open to the Visor community! It could save thousands upon thousands of $$$ in R&D, and could DRASTICALLY cut the price. Especially the software development, which would actually be the bulk of this assignment. I think it will not take very long for development, since the entire unit is not confined within the (relatively) tiny Springboard slot.

The problem is, is that this isn't a "get rich quick" project. While it would offer some features NOT found in the Prism, it still must remain competitive, thus keeping the price low, and requiring a long-term investment. The other thing, is that this push the Springboard expansion slot's capability BIG TIME.

Recordond, I'll keep you down on my list! Thank'yee for your help, it's MUCH appreciated! For now, if anybody knows of a Springboard developer / anyone with quite a bit of SB know-how that I could actually get in contact with, please tell me / drop me an email! I'm not asking anyone to manufacture the product whatsoever, but I have some technical questions! Thank'yee!

And actual companies who develop Springboards! Are you listening?

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 406

Completely impractical. I think I will go with dkessler's price estimate (as he develops in this exact area. You should listen to him, he knows what he's talking about). You lose your springboard slot, and have a unit much bulkier than even a Prism. The market for it would be miniscule. This would be a good poll question if we can get some realistic prices for the final boxed product. $175 is ridiculously low. Do you really think people would be willing to develop this product for free, just so some company can make a profit from it? It was a nice idea, just don't take it so seriously.

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Pricing

Ok, here's my pricing predictions. Tell me what you think/if you would be interested/if you know of anyone who actually develops these things.

First year prices.


1) Base Model. Price: $150.00 - $165.00
* Features identical screen found in Prism
* Full 16 Bit Color
* Would include OS patch for color support
* Would have hard graffiti area
* Edge expansion slot

2) Deluxe Model. Price: $200-230
* Features full-size color screen, same resolution found in Prism
* Soft Graffiti Area
* OS Patch for color support / Modified hack for Landscape viewing.
* Edge expansion slot
* Full 16 bit color

3) Premium model. Price: $250-300
* Features full size hi-res color screen. Same resolution found in Clie.
* Soft Graffiti Area
* Features external speaker / headphone jack which would be compatible with built-in Microphone for playing .wav files
* Features 2-4 MB Flash Memory for OS Upgrade/patches
* Edge Expansion slot
* Full 16 bit color

----

The Premium model would target the power user who wants the best color screen available on the PDA market. It MAY also open up the future possibility of watching full-length movies on your handheld VIA Springboard modules.

The Deluxe Model would target Mainstream users who want a nice full size color screen for their PDA. The basic would be for those who want an affordable color screen for their PDA. Since the screen is already developed for the basic model, it could probably be even lower than the estimated price.

Once again, I think this IS a practical idea by all means.

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 406

If you can cook up some realistic prices, I would like to see you open a poll in this. Then see how many people think it's practical and/or would buy one.


Cons:

* You loose the springboard slot.
I've read quite a few posts saying that the springboard slot is a single slot only. No pass-through deal is going to work (it may be possible, but expensive).

* Size. Slap a Visor edge form factor on top of your Visor DLX. "The new and improved Visor Brick�"

* Cost. *Your price estimates aren't realistic*. If the first MP3 springboard cost well over $200, how much do you think developing something like this would cost?

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Well,

You're right about that. My Prices are NOT realistic. Those were mainly the cost of supplies NOT in bulk. (Bulk it would go waaayy down) But they're close. Keep in mind, unlike a Springboard Mp3 player, the electronics are NOT confined to simply the Springboard slot. I dunno, some creative options can be worked out with say, the sled.


HOWEVER,

You must have skipped the part I talked about the daisychain system that would be used when you read it. Similar to the one on the EDGE. (hopefully identical!) I see NO reason why it cannot be daisy-chained other than Power, which can be worked around. (although it may prove something in cost)

Once again, this is NOT a product you would keep on your Visor 24/7 . There ARE, however, times when Size isn't a MAJOR conern for me (when I am at a Hotel, etc.) yet screen size is. I think it would be a peice of cake to fit the Prism's screen in the entire size of an Edge, since that's all it will house... the screen. And like I said, when you want the form factor, you most likely won't need the color screen, so stick it in your suitcase / OR / your pocket if you are so inclined! (be careful now, it's a SCREEN!)

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 406

Re: Well,

quote:

---

Originally posted by bblue
You're right about that. My Prices are NOT realistic. Those were mainly the cost of supplies NOT in bulk. (Bulk it would go waaayy down) But they're close. Keep in mind, unlike a Springboard Mp3 player, the electronics are NOT confined to simply the Springboard slot. I dunno, some creative options can be worked out with say, the sled.

---

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Prison
Posts: 421

Well

Actually, I'm NOT sidestepping initial development costs all too much. (Although, depending on its development process, it could be slightly higher) The Base model CAN be cheap because it requires no additional screen to be developed. It already exists, thus once it is figured out how to get it through the Springboard & have it daisychained, software is really the only other part of this that will be a toughy. The costs on this simply depends on the developers. This is why I think Handspring itself would be the best company to make this, simply because they would understand their own technology better than some 3rd party company.

The one thing that would hinder costs is how soon the company wants to cover development costs. This would appeal to users who would LIKE to have color when they would use it, without having to shell out the cash for a whole-new PDA. As dumb as it sounds, there ARE people, and quite a few of them I shall add, who don't have $449 to shell out for a new PDA when all they want is a color screen.

The intermediate model is the one that would cause some trouble, since it would require its own screen to be developed. The High-end one would probably base its screen off of the color HandEra development.

Anybody who owns a laptop (no G4 owners, though) who plugs it in to another monitor for better viewing would know why such a device would be a necessity! The only difference, is that THIS you can take with you. Not to mention, something the thickness of the Edge (proposed) would not hurt the form factor on the Visor.


Ok, now for the problem that I think WILL be the toughest to deal with: the daisy chaining.

I think you misunderstood me about the Edge's expansion port. It's not daisy chained, but I'm wondering if it could be. Such technologies as the MiniJam and Memplug have already proven that Springboards CAN handle separate expansion (especially the MiniJam!) on top of the current Springboard module. However, this would break new ground, since no other technology supports Springboard modules. The first problem (the only real big one) is power.

This could be solved by:
* Adding alternative batteries to the screen, making it self powered.
* Adding battery power to the Springboard sled adapter.

Now there are obvious disadvantages I'm sure you all know from these. But hey, it's a concept!

Of course, the higher end models would probably be the ones that would bring the total Visor's cost over a Prism, but these would also be MUCH better screens, so that's not such a problem.

--------
If anyone has any sugguestions about development (power, features, etc.) I'd love to hear them. So far, the only stuff I've added has been what my tiny brain can come up with.

Once again, I think this is still a feasible idea, but I think the more important part now is its execution, which if done right, could get it within the desired price range.

---

Advantages over Prism: (Proposed Basic Model)

* Can be used on any Visor
* Can be removed, so when you want to keep your battery life strong / don't want the minimal bulk added, you don't.
* Current Visor owners will not have to buy a new PDA
* Platinum + VisorScreen = Less or equal to Prism.
* Can run Non-color apps (when screen is removed.. duh!)
* When in would offer larger Silkscreen (your Visor's original screen)
* Color screen can be transported to any Visor you're using.

Disadvantages:

*Possibly larger form factor than Prism
*Not integrated (this is a matter of opinion)
*Requires adapter for Springboard Modules
*Possible same cost
--------------------------------
That's pretty much it.

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<b><font size=1 color=teal>"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"