Discussion > Other Areas of Interest > All Handhelds > Why don't PDAs have non-volatile memory?
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Why don't PDAs have non-volatile memory?
By: Rob @ 05:37 PM
After a week-long trip to Berlin without an international voltage converter/adapter, my Clie2 was not only out of batteries, it was totally dead. When I plugged it back in at home, it had been wiped clean of my data. As I waited for my full restore hotsync to complete, I wondered about this. The whole design philosophy of Palm is that the devices be simple, user-centric devices. Why should people have to worry about data that they enter into their PDA getting lost if you run out of batteries or don't have a power adapter handy? The typical user should not be forced to run back to their computer to hotsync every time they input some important piece of information -- if so, what's the point of having a mobile device? Why is it that memory on PDAs are not non-volatile? Is it too expensive? Too slow? Consume too much power? I think that's unlikely, considering that Springboard flash memory, CF/MMC/SD, and Sony Memorystick expansion memory are all used effectively with PalmOS PDAs. Yes, some of these are relatively expensive, but if you consider only the cost of the memory itself, and not the extra electronics, controller, casing, etc. needed for an expansion card, then is it really that unreasonable to think manufacturers would use non-volatile memory for the main memory of PDAs? Can someone explain this to me? Am I totally off base here? I can wait (I have all the time in the world to wait for an explanation as my desktop computer slowly restores the memory of my mobile handheld organizer...)
By: miradu @ 08:28 PM
Ok, let me give it a shot.
The biggest reason I see for volitle memory in PDAS, is it's fastest, and it's least power intensive wihle activly using. EEPROM(flash RAM) is really slow, and thats what sb's use. I have always found that running apps off of a sb, can be extremely slow, in some cases. SO.. but...
The 3 types of memory are, RAM's (flash and all, smart medaia etc..), Magnetic, and Optical. Magnetic is common, btu the their are too problems, one pagnetic is generally large, and is very hard to fit in a cm square space. 2. Magnetic ALWAYS has movgin parts. which use way mroe power. Volitle doesn't need moving parts, neither does EEPROM.
The other memory type, Opticle, is quite large, btu can be fast and cheap. It uses lasers, so it is implausible to be used as a main source.
I guess I can relate some examples to you.
your computer uses Ram. Why? It's cheapest, fastest, and works. The PDA uses RAM too! Why It's cheapest, fastest and it works! It requires little power draw to keep the memory.
Flash ram is good for storing stuff, but trying to work nonstop on it will not only wear it out, is SLOW!
All this comes down to, why didn't you have a Handspring visor, and why didn't you have a Backup module 
j/k. .god this post was chaotic.
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Hahah
By: yardie @ 08:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by miradu2000
j/k. .god this post was chaotic.
What? your DaRn PoStS are alweys kahotic 
By: Matthew Nichols @ 08:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by miradu2000
All this comes down to, why didn't you have a Handspring visor, and why didn't you have a Backup module
Well actually, kidding aside, you should have considered picking up a cheap 8mb stick and some backup software.
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By: Rob @ 09:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Nichols
Well actually, kidding aside, you should have considered picking up a cheap 8mb stick and some backup software.
Actually, I did have a Memory Stick and BackupBuddyVFS, but I had forgotten to back it up before I started to get low battery warnings, and by that time it wouldn't let me access the stick because the battery was too low (ironic, isn't it?) I guess I should have set BBVFS to automatically backup every night or something, but I'm always afraid something bad will happen like a fatal error or some other crash that hangs the system and will drain my battery by the time I wake up. Maybe I should set it to auto backup about 15 minutes before I wake up, so I can check it as soon as I get up...
Thanks for the chaotic explanation, miradu. I guess I was basing my suggestion on the Flash Memory Springboard module, which never seemed to cause performance or battery issues when I used it (other than the annoying compacting corruption errors!) Maybe we need a few more years for non-volatile memory to become faster and consume less power before they can be used for handheld main-memory.
By: dick-richardson @ 11:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rob
(ironic, isn't it?)
Technically, no.
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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.
By: miradu @ 12:16 AM
your mean, dick! (well actually josh.. but oh well whatever)
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There is an answer coming
By: jeffbeerman2 @ 08:29 PM
Check out this link for an answer:
http://www.beyond2000.com/news/Jun_01/story_1179.html
By: dick-richardson @ 10:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by miradu2000
your mean, dick! (well actually josh.. but oh well whatever)
Didn't mean to be. Just clarifying.
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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.
By: Rob @ 11:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
quote: Originally posted by Rob
(ironic, isn't it?)
Technically, no.
Well, if you want to be technical:
i�ron�ic (-rnk) also i�ron�i�cal (-rn-kl) adj.
...
3. Poignantly contrary to what was expected or intended
Since many people would consider a low battery warning to be a signal they should backup their data before it's too late, I would say that not being able to do a backup after the first low battery warning is 'poignantly contrary' to the reasonable expectation that you would have time to act on the warning.
(btw, the above definition comes from here...while you're at it, check out this definition, josh) 
By: dick-richardson @ 11:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rob
(btw, the above definition comes from here...while you're at it, check out this definition, josh)
ROTFLMAO
According to my Oxford dictionary:
quote:
i�ron�ic using or diplaying irony
quote:
i�ro�ny (1) humorous or sarcastic use of language of a different or opposite meaning. (2) ill-timed arrival of an event or circumstance that is in itself desirable.
I doubt a battery running low could be considered "desirable," in itself or no.
My dictionary can beat your dictionary up.
__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.
By: Rob @ 10:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
ROTFLMAO
According to my Oxford dictionary:
...
My dictionary can beat your dictionary up.
Yeah, I guess you're right...after all, my dictionary certainly doesn't have the street cred of the venerable OED, which features pillars of the English language such as 'bad hair day', 'shopaholism', and 'alcopop'.
Weeellllll...
By: bblue @ 08:38 PM
I say: make a PDA that uses SmartMedia for it's main memory format!
Sure as hell wouldn't be too expensive!
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