Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

Check this out!
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-20...ne.1002.thed.ni



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www.palmfactory.com

"No matter where you go...there you are!"

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

For Visor fans, the news really isn't all that bad. According to SanDisk literature, SD cards are an outgrowth of the MultiMediaCard with enhanced cryptography, 4 times the data transfer rate, and more resistance to electrostatic discharges. The footprint is about the same as a MMC, but it is thicker - which is intended to give greater capacity in 2001, as much as 256MB!

The point is that it is really only Sony who should be pissed. SD looks to be purely a memory technology, and so it is a direct competitor of the Memory Stick. I doubt it can do much else due to its small size. BTW, what happened to their agreement with Sony to use the Memory Stick? Palm is throwing the recording (and publishing?) industry a bone with this one, as the cryptography is of the ilk that is favored by that crowd. I infer that this is not the kind of cryptography that you would use to encode personal data (too computationally intensive) - so it really isn't going to do the consumer any good at all.

The SD slot does not appear to have the versatility to threaten the Springboard slot. The potential downside is that Palm's research must indicate that there is only a niche market for the sort of add-ons that lend themselves to Springboard modules. We can only hope that they are wrong . . .

If you want to check out SanDisk's on-line literature for yourself, this is your URL - http://www.sandisk.com/cons/prod_lit.htm

Ahh. Saw some new info that indicated that the SD slot is a suitable interface for add-ons . . . in the same manner as the serial interface - just faster.

[This message has been edited by yucca (edited 06-27-2000).]

Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 209

see http://www.palm.com/pr/062700.html for additional developer details, including stuff that CNet conveniently left out.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1883

quote:

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The expansion architecture supports the Secure Digital (SD) Card, Sony's MemoryStick� storage technology, Compact Flash, Handspring's Springboard modules, and external expansion options for current Palm brand handhelds.

"We are aggressively focused on enhancing our operating system by incorporating support for premier expansion standards and other technologies that enhance the solutions we provide for our customers," said Alan Kessler, chief operating officer of platform and products of Palm, Inc. "By supporting industry-standard solutions, we allow customers to choose elegant handheld products which address their specific needs in a variety of form factors, and will promote even broader adoption of Palm powered handhelds."

Expansion cards offer flexible solutions that can provide both data storage and I/O access. Handheld products equipped with expansion cards could enable users to make backup copies of their data; access digital media like electronic books, maps or MP3 files; or use a Bluetooth-enabled card for wireless connectivity. The new architecture will integrate expansion seamlessly into the platform creating a similar user experience for expansion cards across Palm OS products. Palm OS applications which include expansion card functionality will work across all Palm OS devices and expansion cards.

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 241

Sounds that way to me, but it's hard to tell. They may just be mentioning the units that are sold by handspring and sony along with their units, in order to make the press release look better than it is, (thus causing more inexperienced readers who invest in PALM to invest more.) But I'm not sure. Anyone have any inside connections who can tell? Anyone at the PCExpo know?

Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 209

What I read into the PR is that this news is of primary interest to the future of the PalmOS and the devices that run or will use the operating system.

The sentence:

"All Palm OS licensees will have the option to use the new technology to integrate any of the leading expansion standards into their products

...I think sums it up.

It doesn't necessarily mean that future devices from Palm Inc. will physically support Springboards-- rather, future PalmOS devices (Palm, Handspring, Sony, TRG, Qualcomm, etc.), using a future version of the PalmOS, will have the ability to support either SD, MemoryStick, CF, or Springboard (or perhaps all of the above).

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 241

Thanks! That's what I thought!

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 231

quote:

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"It's unique among form factors," said Cooke, highlighting the security SD offers and the
advantages gained from its small size. An SD card is about the size of a postage stamp, he
said. Handspring has "serious limitations because of the size of the Springboard device," he
added.

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Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 64

Ok, so now things are turning interesting,... we already have CompactFlash (mostly in WinCE machines), MemoryStick (Sony), Springboard (Visor), and now SecureDigital (Palm)! Can you see a market battle brewing that is probably at least four times worse than the VHS vs. Beta or DVD vs. DIVX battle of not too long ago? **shudder**

Not sure what to make of this. One could argue that any one of these four technologies has serious advantages over the other three.

I was looking at GeoDiscovery's website recently, who is making a GPS module for the Handspring Visor. On the site, they refer to, "slots for 2 MMC cards to hold at least 64 MB of memory." Isn't the MMC card what the SD is pretty much based on? If so, perhaps SD is not really a competitor to Springboard, and could eventually be used to COMPLEMENT it (added memory PLUS security)! I think Palm has decided to go with this, but hasn't really ruled out a Springboard (or a MemoryStick or CompactFlash, for that matter). They are just not saying anything, which is probably smart on their part,... they don't want to support Springboard and give Sony the virtual finger, especially when they just climbed on board the PalmOS bandwagon!

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Inglewood, CA, USA
Posts: 390

OK, so supply me with a Springboard that reads SD...

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

From what I know, SD cards are really only for Flash memory. Since the cards are about 1.26x0.94 by 0.080 inches thick (I'm going from memory here so I might be off a bit ) your not going to be able to fit much more than memory chips inside such a small package.

Remember: Springboards can stick out beyond the back side of the Visor case. I doubt SD cards can stick out at all.

The MMC cards are the same size but only 0.060 inches thick. A company could easily put two MMC card slots in a Springboard module. Wait! - there is a Springboard with this feature! - the Geodiscovery Geode (hopefully out soon!)

The Palm SD announcement really doesn't mean much for Visor users.

I'll take the much more expandable Springboard slot anyday over an SD slot!

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

While SD cards are memory only, the slot itself will allow you to plug-in a cable adapter for larger clip-on devices . . . in a manner not too different from the serial cables or serial sockets that connect various add-ons to Palm's exisitng handhelds. The SD slot should offer more bandwidth than the serial port. So this might not be such a bad deal for Palm.

It is also good news that Palm plans to implement generic APIs for expansion slots. So the Springboard slot is not going to be frozen out in the next iteration of the Palm OS.

Re: the security in SD cards. I'll start a thread regarding this in the Off Topic board, as it really only concerns Palm's PDAs.


[This message has been edited by yucca (edited 06-28-2000).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 64

While SD cards are memory only, the slot itself will allow you to plug-in a cable adapter for larger clip-on devices . . . in a manner not too different from the serial cables or serial sockets that connect various add-ons to Palm's existing handhelds.

Personally, if I had the choice between a device in a Springboard that installed into the back of the unit, and maybe added a little bulk to the Visor, vs. a device that was a separate unit connected by cable to the Palm, I would go with the ALL-IN-ONE springboard any day! Particularly if both devices did the same thing. Less cables, less hassle, less overall "geekiness",...

I'm still betting that the SD slot will develop into somewhat of an enhancement to the springboard slot (a la Geode). Although we should still wait and see how much market share Sony is able to grab up with memorysticks,... Also, Springboard also has another company putting slots in other handhelds (symbol has licensed the architecture for its WinCE *gag* machines)...

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 64

Another Springboard coming out this summer with MultiMediaCard (MMC) capability! The InnoGear MP3 Player (www.innogear.com)!

Here's the FAQ:
http://www.innogear.com/faq_5.13.2000a.pdf

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NC, Indiana
Posts: 465

Before we get all worried about this---isn't it possible to just make a MMC/MemStick/CF/Smart Media/SD springboard? I wonder how much that would be..

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-Vinny

I'll pack my bags I swear I'll run, wish my friends were 21

Registered: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY USA [img]http://www.louisville.net/images/aprilcover.jpg[/img]
Posts: 9

quote:

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Originally posted by yucca:
While SD cards are memory only, the slot itself will allow you to plug-in a cable adapter for larger clip-on devices

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Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 241

Come on now... You know Handspring will:
a) Release patches to upgrade to the next OS
b) Release upgrade springboards
or
c) Sell hardware upgrades, where you actually buy a ROM chip from handspring w/instructions on installing it in your visor.

(I hope they have the first and third choices! I wouldn't mind spending $10 to really soup up my visor when OS 4 etc come out! Though I truly doubt the 3rd will occur )

[Oops! Typos!]

[This message has been edited by Petro (edited 06-29-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

Sorry, Petro; but we don't know that any of your upgrade scenarios will happen. I'd go so far as to suggest that the first two will never happen; and I doubt that they will do the last one (too likely to result in damaged Visors that lead to higher legal costs). However, they might allow you to return your Visor to the factory for the ROM upgrade. I think it is far more likely that they will give you a modest discount on your next Visor, or they might allow trade-ins (far less likely).

Sadly, I think the most likely prospect is that none of the above scenarios will occur. I can't think of any consumer electronics company that does trade-ins, trade-ups or anything along those lines. The upgrades from the original Palm Pilots were a one time deal, and we are just not going to see its like again.

[This message has been edited by yucca (edited 06-30-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 241

I have to disagree with you on that one.

Handspring has already said that OS upgrades will be done with patches, and they've said they can be done with springboards, but I think the patch is more viable for them.
-Petro

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

There is a big difference between what is theoretically possible, and a commitment to do something. The only thing Handspring has said is that it is possible to patch the OS. They have never promised a patch. They will/would have released a patch if something was seriously broken. They are very unlikely to release a patch that adds functionality for several reasons:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> They are not legally required to provide additional functionality beyond what was promised when the product shipped, and that is the functionality outlined in their FAQ - best illustrated in the table contrasting the Palm OS v3.3 with the Handspring Visor. They have delivered on the promised functionality, so there is no grounds for a patch on this count.
<LI> Releasing a patch that doesn't actually fix something that is broken is going to cost them $$, and in return they get what? This is a business - not a charity we are talking about . . . For example, if you ask Handspring for an upgrade that supports IR HotSyncs (non-network), they will refer you to IS/Complete's IR Link. What they do not say: "Sure. Wait for the patch that will give you Palm OS v3.3 capabilities." If they are not going to give us v3.3, what makes you think that we are going to get v3.5 (nevermind v4)?
<LI> Any patch would have to be reapplied whenever a Visor gets a hard reset. This would be a tech support nightmare - see previous point.</UL>
Put another way (and I may be shooting myself in the foot here), can you patch an original Nintendo to get a Nintendo64? What about any of the other gaming consoles? What about the gameboy; could you apply a patch to get color? The Visor is marketed and priced as a consumer electronics device - not a desktop computer. You'll be happier with the way things play-out if you think of things in this light.

[This message has been edited by yucca (edited 07-01-2000).]