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Palm Emulator for Pocket PC
By: Winchell @ 10:23 PM

Hey, that's not fair!

http://www.pocketnow.com/html/news/...pocketpalm.html

By: CaptainCaveman @ 01:19 AM

Not fair? Well.. on the other hand, you could look at it and say "See what Pocket PC owners have to do to get good software?"...

Uuuuuurrrrrrrrrr... also, wouldn't you still need to own a palm to legally get the ROM image?

palm os 4 on a ipaq
By: grilla @ 01:28 PM

my visor would be a $200 paperweight. i hope this isn't a joke.

By: weberflo @ 04:27 PM

That's just an example how powerful a PocketPC is.
However, it's not good for the PalmOS system at all. Buy a PocketPC, and you can have both a WinCE and a PalmOS device.

But we should wait until 2002: When the first StrongARM Palm devices appear, we won't have to worry. I don't think an Ipaq can emulate a 1 GHz device.

By: Thunderbird291 @ 04:54 PM

Then again, when VirtualPC came out for Mac, you didn't see Windows crash and burn. Some people just don't like Macs, even if they can have the best of both worlds. Same for Palm/PPC.

By: Toby @ 05:55 PM

A few questions that I didn't see addressed by the article:

What does it sync with?
Corrolary: How do I load other PalmOS programs?
Where do I plug my springboards?
How does the emulator access the functionality of CF peripherals?

Seems like a novelty rather than a functionality improvement, IMO.

By: bookrats @ 10:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Seems like a novelty rather than a functionality improvement, IMO.

Agreed, from the looks of it.

However, I've been expecting something like this ever since hearing Palm OS 5.0 was going to run on an ARM processor, and would run current Palm Applications via an emulator. I mean, if Palm can do it, why couldn't someone in the Pocket PC world?

The thing to remember is: current company excepted, tell Joe Consumer that he can spend $500 (plus the cost of the Palm emulation software) to run Palm Software; or $150 (or less) for an m100. Guess which way he'll jump?

I keep expecting my friends to say, "It's just an appliance! Move out of your parents' basement!"

__________________
Jeff Meyer

"And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."

By: Celchu19 @ 11:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by weberflo
That's just an example how powerful a PocketPC is.
However, it's not good for the PalmOS system at all. Buy a PocketPC, and you can have both a WinCE and a PalmOS device.

But we should wait until 2002: When the first StrongARM Palm devices appear, we won't have to worry. I don't think an Ipaq can emulate a 1 GHz device.

Silly person.

By the time your ARM bassed palm comes out in LATE 2002 or so (that's how it's lookin now) do you think iPAQs will still be on 206 mhz processors????? Hell no. the 412 mhz ipaq should be out by christmas. while you finaly have an 66mhz visor. and 1 gighz ipaqs should be out with in the year, I'd say. Now that we have the ipaq progression down lets talk about the palm progression. The Motorola ARM bassed chips that palm is LIKELY to use will mostlikely start out in the 150-200 mhz (so just to be on the nice side when I have my 412 ipaq or 1 ghz ipaq, you'll be with a 200mhz palm; which is perfectly fine for emulation....

No of course my curent ipaq won't be able to emulate your palm from nearly 18 months in the future, but my ipaq from 18 months in the future will be able too.

Nextime check your logic please...

Sam Kleinman

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By: Celchu19 @ 11:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
A few questions that I didn't see addressed by the article:

What does it sync with?

Corrolary: How do I load other PalmOS programs?

Where do I plug my springboards?

How does the emulator access the functionality of CF peripherals?

Seems like a novelty rather than a functionality improvement, IMO.

I've coresponded with the guy writing it, and he does expect to add suport for CF cards, how will it work? the same exact way it works on a handera 330 or trg pro. There will be VFS support I'm told..

As for loading programs, the same way you load them on POSE.

By: weberflo @ 01:41 PM

quote:
No of course my curent ipaq won't be able to emulate your palm from nearly 18 months in the future, but my ipaq from 18 months in the future will be able too.

Are you sure? At the moment we have completely different devices. You can not compare the power of the processors like 33Mhz:206Mhz. A Dragonball has much less power. Have a look at benchmarks (MIPS, Dhrystone etc.).
But, when any ARM-based devices appear, we have the same kind of processor in both devices. Perhaps you know, for emulating a device, you usually need much more processing power than the original device has itself. Or do you think a 10 year old Gameboy has more power than a new Palm, just because you have to overclock the processor?
So even a 1GHz PocketPC will NOT be able to emulate a 200MHz Palm at acceptable speed.

By: Toby @ 06:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Celchu19
I've coresponded with the guy writing it, and he does expect to add suport for CF cards, how will it work? the same exact way it works on a handera 330 or trg pro. There will be VFS support I'm told..

As for loading programs, the same way you load them on POSE.

And even if he does manage to do all that, it still begs the question...Why? The article touts this like it's some grand victory, when what it suggests to me is more an admission of defeat. Obviously there are some things which the PocketPC OS advocates are admitting that Palm can do that it can't natively. Instead of reinventing the wheel which will probably be on its way out by the time it's released, why not try to create some truly compelling applications which will attract people to _your_ platform. The people that are looking for the functionality of the PalmOS aren't really going to be interested in buying a 400GHz iPaq only to emulate a 16/33MHz Palm, and I can't see why someone who wants the 400GHz PocketPC iPaq would be interested in it either. They'd be much better off with PocketPC PIM apps that run natively instead of emulated. Ultimately, like I said, it's a novelty.

By: Celchu19 @ 08:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by weberflo
So even a 1GHz PocketPC will NOT be able to emulate a 200MHz Palm at acceptable speed.

I've always said (and belived) that in order to emulate a device properly, the device doing the emulation needs to be at least twice as fast as the device being emulated. Using this generaly accepted equation, logic would dictate that the 1 ghz pocket pc would beable to run a palm platform at an acceptable if not enjoyable speed. Allow me to make the record say that the device that the developer is doing his testing on is a HP Jordana 54x series device, and he is only emulating the original Dragonball right now, he says that it is snappy and works acceptably if not better.

With PocketPCs and Palms both working on the same processor type, It will be very similar to emulate, in fact there won't need to be emulation because the processor is virtualy identical, so you just realy need to build a shell...

By: Celchu19 @ 08:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
And even if he does manage to do all that, it still begs the question...Why? The article touts this like it's some grand victory, when what it suggests to me is more an admission of defeat. Obviously there are some things which the PocketPC OS advocates are admitting that Palm can do that it can't natively. Instead of reinventing the wheel which will probably be on its way out by the time it's released, why not try to create some truly compelling applications which will attract people to _your_ platform. The people that are looking for the functionality of the PalmOS aren't really going to be interested in buying a 400GHz iPaq only to emulate a 16/33MHz Palm, and I can't see why someone who wants the 400GHz PocketPC iPaq would be interested in it either. They'd be much better off with PocketPC PIM apps that run natively instead of emulated. Ultimately, like I said, it's a novelty.

Why emulate a gameboy when you can buy one for a resonable price? Duh, for alot of things and people it's a novelty, but that's the joy, do you scoff at Liberity because you could get a gameboy and do it better, or do you go ahead and play your games; it's one and the same. People who want to use palm software will still get a palm, people who want to use pocketpc software will get a pocketpc. This emulator isn't going to factor into many peoples decision, nor is it going to be included with pockpcs. It's a tool for thoes of us who want to use third party applications that haven't yet been ported to PocketPC. Applications like datebk4, WordSmith and maby some games, and if people have them they aren't going to stop using pocketpc applications either.

It seems as though I have you in a bind becasue the only thing you though to mention about the Palm Platform was the PIM applications, furthing the argument that Palms are just PIM managers. I didn't say it you did..

Sam

By: Toby @ 09:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Celchu19
Why emulate a gameboy when you can buy one for a resonable price?

Excellent analogy.

quote:
Duh, for alot of things and people it's a novelty,

That's because it is a novelty. I don't see any Palm sites claiming that it's an advantage of the platform, either.

quote:
but that's the joy, do you scoff at Liberity because you could get a gameboy and do it better, or do you go ahead and play your games; it's one and the same.

Yes, it is, and yes, I would scoff at Liberty if someone tried to claim that it meant that Palm was winning the Gameboy wars.

quote:
People who want to use palm software will still get a palm, people who want to use pocketpc software will get a pocketpc. This emulator isn't going to factor into many peoples decision, nor is it going to be included with pockpcs.

Hint: that's exactly why I think it's a novelty rather than any sort of functional improvement.

quote:
It's a tool for thoes of us who want to use third party applications that haven't yet been ported to PocketPC. Applications like datebk4, WordSmith and maby some games, and if people have them they aren't going to stop using pocketpc applications either.

No, but then they are admitting that their beloved PocketPCs can't do something better than the Palms.

quote:
It seems as though I have you in a bind becasue the only thing you though to mention about the Palm Platform was the PIM applications, furthing the argument that Palms are just PIM managers. I didn't say it you did..

No, Palms are primarily PIMs (PIM manager is redundant). Some of them also have the capability of adding other functionality. Some of these are novelty type things (MP3 players come to mind, since the Minijam never came through with its more useful promised features and others took its place - other memory card adapters). Others increase the inherent utility.

scrolling
By: na2rboy @ 09:36 PM

I hate scrolling through a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, etc. It all can be said and followed easily in a nice, compact paragraph.

Re: scrolling
By: Celchu19 @ 11:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by na2rboy
I hate scrolling through a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, etc. It all can be said and followed easily in a nice, compact paragraph.

That's nice. I like it when everybody mails me 100 dollar bills, but we can't always have what we want.

Sam

Re: scrolling
By: dick-richardson @ 11:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by na2rboy
I hate scrolling through a one-line quote, a one-line response,

What

quote:
a one-line quote,

quote:
a one-line response,

you

quote:
a one-line quote,

mean

quote:
a one-line response,

quote:
a one-line quote, etc.

that

quote:
It all can be said and followed easily in a nice, compact paragraph.

statement?

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Re: scrolling
By: Toby @ 01:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by na2rboy
I hate scrolling through a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, a one-line response, a one-line quote, etc. It all can be said and followed easily in a nice, compact paragraph.

You reply your way, I'll reply mine. When it flows better to me in a single paragraph reply, I'll reply that way. When it flows better to me interspersed, I'll reply that way.

Re: Re: scrolling
By: Celchu19 @ 04:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
You reply your way, I'll reply mine. When it flows better to me in a single paragraph reply, I'll reply that way. When it flows better to me interspersed, I'll reply that way.

Wow, first time I aucticaly aggree with you!!!!

Sam

By: na2rboy @ 02:27 PM

quote:
That's nice. I like it when everybody mails me 100 dollar bills, but we can't always have what we want.

Thanks, Mick. we seem to aucticaly aggree on that one.

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