Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

A cheap box....

Well, tax return is (presumably) coming, and the Mrs. and I are thinking about trading up our PII 266 maxed out at 96 megs of RAM. We're looking to get a box on the cheap--i.e. 500 or less. We don't need a CD/DVD/CDRW drive, nor do we need a monitor/printer/scanner/etc. I've found a few things on the net, but nothing to get excited about. For now it'll probably be running some version of Windows (likly 98, but we'll see), with the option of moving to a command-line OS (probably FreeBSD, but again, we'll see) once I decide to spring for VMWare (I can't dump windows entirely, MicroGrade is our "killer app" and the damn company won't return my emails re: a non-windows implementation... and I am told that VMWare makes Wine look pretty sad...).

....so... I'm really out of the loop WRT processors and such. Celeron, AMD, Pentium III/IV, what? And can I get by with 256m of RAM? Can somebody help out by telling me what the absolute baseline is for your run-of-the-mill PC these days. Basically anything will knock my socks off, but I hate throwing money at something when i don't know the whole shebang...

...maybe I should have posted this in the inane ramble...

---edit: the SIG here is in reference to the laptop I'm waiting to be fixed up...

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 708

Take a look at PCUSA.

A friend of mine just ordered a very nice machine from them for his mom. Got it for around $400.00 without all the accessories.

In fact, most prices are shown without an OS, so if you have an OS already, you do not have to pay for another.

Considering their prices, I would recommend the AMD Athlon or the P4 with at least 256MB RAM. If you want to spend the money, get 512MB RAM and buy XP Home.

AMD Athlon 1.33 GHZ
512MB RAM
WinXP - Home Edition
Cost is $574.50

P4 1.4 GHZ
512MB RAM
WinXP - Home Edition
Cost is $628.00

Both machines are their Home Configuration.

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In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

If the MicroGrade you mean is this one, the gradebook software, then it sounds like the minimum CPU speed and RAM specs will be determined by:
1. your Windows OS
2. VMWare

I recommend you find out minimum specifications for VMWare. If you're buying a machine with WinXP on it, it probably is already configured to handle it.

Also, keep in mind that VMWare uses a lot of HD disk space to hold its memory images. You're lucky that whatever command-line OS you choose, it will likely have a memory footprint similar to or less than XP, but especially since disks are cheap, I'd recommend getting the next larger hard drive than you think you need, probably one step above the typical minimum 20GB.

Provided VMWare is happy with 1.3 GHz and 512MB RAM (I expect it is), I think you'd be fine with GSR13's less expensive option.

Good luck!

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Jeff

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

also TigerDirect has some brand new Dell 800Mhz Dimension L800CXE's (Intel Celeron) running Windows ME for $449.99. 128MB PC133 SDRAM, 20 GB EIDE Ultra ATA/100 HD, 48x CD-ROM, Floppy, V90 Modem, etc.

They also have cheaper Dell Optiplexes (Optiplexi?) running either Windows NT (566Mhz @ $349.99 w/ 7 GB HD) or Windows 98 (700 Mhz @ $399.99 w/ 10 GB HD), both with NIC, 48x CD-ROM, floppy, and 256MB SDRAM (neither with modem)

And of course they always have cheaper computers (factory recertified, no operating system)

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"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Utah
Posts: 78

I buy the ultra-cheap discount computer at CompUSA or similar store. ($400 - $500) Then I spend 20 bucks for more RAM. (I got another 128 megs for 256 total) I then have a decent computer for the next 2-3 years. Then I start all over again.

My theory, is that I get a decent up-to-date machine, and I don't upgrade. I just buy a new, cheap machine a few years later.

My current machine: 900 mhz, AMD duron, 30 gig, 256 ram, Win XP. It works like a charm and runs everything I need it to run at the same time (about 6 heavy-duty programs). I'm satisfied with it.

If I was a gamer, I would have to spend more money on my machine. Lot's more.

Registered: Aug 2001
Location:
Posts: 383

Build your own

If you are interested I can point you in the right direction.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:

---

Originally posted by Techie2000
Build your own

If you are interested I can point you in the right direction.

---

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 415

yeah.. those dell boxes may seem cheap, but if you buid your own, you can make a better computer for less. basically you buy the best parts for what's importat to you, and cheap out on things you won't need:

ie, get a decent video card (gf4mx200 or whatever) a mobo with a fast front side bus, etc, but buy a cheap case and such.

I'm a big proponent of building your own, but you need to be prepared to put a lot of time into research unless you have a nice guy like techie2000 to point you in the right direction.

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I have a webcomic. You should read it, or I may do something rash. <b><a href=http://driveby.keenspace.com/>Drive-by Loitering</a></b> is updated every monday, wednesday and friday.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 347

dietrich...

it's all about the Pricewatch:
www.pricewatch.com

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: A cheap box....

quote:

---

Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Well, tax return is (presumably) coming, and the Mrs. and I are thinking about trading up our PII 266 maxed out at 96 megs of RAM. We're looking to get a box on the cheap--i.e. 500 or less. We don't need a CD/DVD/CDRW drive, nor do we need a monitor/printer/scanner/etc. [...] ....so... I'm really out of the loop WRT processors and such. Celeron, AMD, Pentium III/IV, what? And can I get by with 256m of RAM? Can somebody help out by telling me what the absolute baseline is for your run-of-the-mill PC these days. Basically anything will knock my socks off, but I hate throwing money at something when i don't know the whole shebang... [...]

---

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 708

Re: Re: A cheap box....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Toby
Well, I'm probably not the guy to ask because I wouldn't consider the system that I'm getting ready to order next week cheap ($2135) by any stretch (unless it's in comparison to that vendor's other available systems). My only regret is that they don't have any non-WinXP systems, so I'll have to settle for XP Pro.

---

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In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: I think I want to live in Germanium when I grow up
Posts: 29

Re: A cheap box....

quote:

---

Originally posted by dietrichbohn

....so... I'm really out of the loop WRT processors and such. Celeron, AMD, Pentium III/IV, what? And can I get by with 256m of RAM? Can somebody help out by telling me what the absolute baseline is for your run-of-the-mill PC these days. Basically anything will knock my socks off, but I hate throwing money at something when i don't know the whole shebang...

...maybe I should have posted this in the inane ramble...

---edit: the SIG here is in reference to the laptop I'm waiting to be fixed up...

---

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: Re: Re: A cheap box....

quote:

---

Originally posted by GSR13
Funny you should mention AlienWare. I had never heard of them until tonight. I was in BestBuy and they had one out with some basic information.

At any rate, they look pretty cool. Do you already have some experience with them or is this is a first?

---

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

WOW.. thanks all for the great advice, PW has got the best deals I've seen yet... though I ache for the conspiracy blue.

...you've talked me out of mucking around with VMWare, I'll stick with windows on it for a while longer (esp. since I'll have freebsd on my laptop). so now I've got other questions:

Athlon v Athlon XP v P4 v p3: WTF?

and of course the moral question: Win 98 or Win XP? Stability or purity? If I'm damned for using Windows, shoun't I just be doubly damned?

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 708

quote:

---

Originally posted by dietrichbohn
WOW.. thanks all for the great advice, PW has got the best deals I've seen yet... though I ache for the conspiracy blue.

...you've talked me out of mucking around with VMWare, I'll stick with windows on it for a while longer (esp. since I'll have freebsd on my laptop). so now I've got other questions:

Athlon v Athlon XP v P4 v p3: WTF?

and of course the moral question: Win 98 or Win XP? Stability or purity? If I'm damned for using Windows, shoun't I just be doubly damned?

---

__________________
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

Another vote for piecing one together. For well under your $500 I was able to get a P200 w/mmx, 192MB's RAM, SB Live! 5.1, 32MB all-in-wonder, cdrw/dvd combo. It's not impressive (unless one would consider forcing a P200 through the abuse I am impressive), but I have been able to get some money saved, and purchasing a case, motherboard, processor, and RAM really won't be that expensive an upgrade when finally inevitable.

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:

---

Originally posted by dietrichbohn
WOW.. thanks all for the great advice, PW has got the best deals I've seen yet... though I ache for the conspiracy blue.

---

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: I think I want to live in Germanium when I grow up
Posts: 29

quote:

---

Originally posted by dietrichbohn

Athlon v Athlon XP v P4 v p3: WTF?

and of course the moral question: Win 98 or Win XP? Stability or purity? If I'm damned for using Windows, shoun't I just be doubly damned?

---

Windows 98SE (note that Windows 98 Second Edition
is MUCH different that the non-SE version in terms of hardware
support).

Overall, I would put forth this issue:

Any Windows OS not going to be a good platform for Data Security. NOTE: I mean data security by the following definition:

"Allowing access of data to those that need it when they need it."

By this definition, Windows will NEVER be secure, or at the
very least, it is a very difficult OS to secure. That includes,
but is not limited to, classical ideas of cracking (otherwise
mislabeled to the lay public as hacking), your Web browser
providing info you don't want it to, applications reporting on
your OS even if you don't want it to, viruses, Trojan horse, stable support for hardware, etc.

All computer security in the sense most people mean it, is how do you restrict access to data to a give set of people.

Now, Windows 98SE has the benefit that most of the major
problems have been worked out, I personally would trust the virus scanners on it, and there is more information on how to "secure" the system and more experience in doing so than XP.

Windows 2000 is more or less the same as 98SE above in
terms of being a "known" quantity. However, it can be made more secure, more easily than Win 98SE.

It has Direct 8.X support, and most hardware that is support by WIndows 98SE is supported by W2K as well. I would encourage you to think about Windows 2000 as an option. Like UNIX, Windows 2000 is a security hole if you do everything as root(UNIX)/administrator with absolute power(windows).

But, if you setup a W2K user account with restricted access to OS functions, you limit your vulnerabilities to nefarious software. And besides, your wife can have her own account, then you can hide
your porn from her with W2K as long as she doesn't have admin access

XP, like the Treo, is the latest, greatest promise. But is there
really any software out there that is XP only that you think you
are going to need for the next 2 years?

The downside of both XP and W2K in respect to Admin controls of the system, is they do take a little more time to manage and some
applications are a little harder to setup correctly under a multiuser
environment.

Also, don't underrate a CDRW. It can backup your critical data
and save you lots of pain.

-henry

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: I think I want to live in Germanium when I grow up
Posts: 29

Oh yeah, if you go XP, spend the extra bucks on getting the
Professional edition DO NOT GET THE HOME edition.

It is something like $149 with hardware purchase.

Professional doesn't require you to register with Microsoft,
and doesn't do some other personal information invasive things.

Run away from anyone who tells you different.

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

The other nice thing about 98SE is the plethora of utilites it comes with to fix the system when/if it does go down. You have a (more or less) full version of DOS, sfc, scanreg, etc. This system doesn't sound like one that is going to be running daily for years on end, and that is an area where you would notice the advantage of XP (a couple of years down the line when software you want is only available for XP you won't have to upgrade). As for processor, get the one with the most cache you can afford. That makes a more significant difference than a lot of people give it credit for. I'd suggest an AMD chip.

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.