Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

You know, maybe I'm overly skeptical, but I've been watching Handspring's Visor like a hawk these past few months, and I'm *still* not convinced.

There's talk of the Visor going retail, but my recent visit to CompUSA, Office Max, and Office Depot left me feeling like a dork. All three stores responded with, "Handspring? What's that?" And this from the store managers!

Also ... Springboards. Ummm, where are they? Tiger Woods is a great golfer and all, and I�m sure the game is a lot of fun, but Tiger can't get me my email.

I'm just amazed at Handsprings "all talk and no action." I read about their timeline ... "If they say February, they really mean June." Well, that's just not acceptable.

And what about the competition? Here I am, researching the PDA world, and everyday something new comes across the wire. Apple's PDA, Quartz, Palm IIIc & IIIxe, Microsoft's PocketPC, Sony, iPaq, etc. I fear Handspring is going to get their butts kicked by this new wave of PDAs forming on the horizon.

I�m just bummed out. The Visor *seems* to have so much potential. But will everyone still be saying that in, say, six months? If so, forget it. The competition is breathing down Handspring�s neck, and what are they doing about it besides dragging their feet?

(BTW - If Apple�s PDA is anything like their earlier Newton, I for one will be singing �Sha na na na, sha na na na, hey, hey, goodbye� to Handspring. And so will many others � in my opinion).

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 81

If Apple's next PDA is anything like the old Newton, it will be around for the next couple of years, sell very few units, be almost completely unusable, but will make for a very nice paperweight on Steve Jobs's desk! Long live the VISOR!!!!!!!!

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

The Handspring Visor will really catch fire when the modules are released and people start talking about its amazing features. The question right now is not if the modules will be released but when.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 560

Ken,

The only modules that handspring controlls are the memory, backup, tiger wolf, and modem. All of them are shipping now. Yeah i know the modem is being released as a trickle.

As for the other modules, the other companies are at fault for not meeting there deadlines.

Felipe

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

Case in point - check out the latest under Order/Shipping ...

"Need to Vent" by mriehl
"Service Still is Terrible" by Hott

... and the latest under How To/Troubleshooting ...

"It's happening to me" by sseligson

All I'm saying is that Handspring will *not* survive if this keeps up. The appeal of other PDAs on the horizon is going to sink 'em.

LuckyChuck - you're right ... the OLD Newton makes for a great paperweight. But if they can fit the old Newton into a case the size of a Visor (plus a few other improvements) ... well, it would make for a great PDA.


[This message has been edited by Ken (edited 02-27-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

Another thing � I can appreciate Hromadka�s efforts to paint the Visor in a positive light. The �Results of Poll on Visor Problems� from Feb. 8th, however, wasn�t very reassuring. Only 64% have never had a problem with their Visor!?!?! So the odds are only slightly in my favor of receiving a problem-free PDA from Handspring?!?!

How about a new survey � �When Will Handspring Crash & Burn?�

1.) Spring `00
2.) Summer `00
3.) Fall `00
4.) They�re already dead

(Okay, so I�m being a little extreme).

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 24

Whats the difference if it is going to be around or not in a few years. I got mine. I am using it now. It meets my needs. I will probably get a new pda in 3 years anyway. If handspring sinks tomorrow, I will still be using my visor. Maybe I will have an empty springboard slot, so it then will become a Palm 3 in a fancy color that runs faster. has more memory, but has no warranty.

I'll take my chances the company will be around untill my warranty is up.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Hillsboro, OR, USA
Posts: 64

I for one am perfectly happy with my Visor. I use it daily. I also had a Newton when they came out and used it for a couple weeks, then sold it. I would never buy another PDA from Apple.

As for Handspring's problems, they are overcoming them. The complaints you see are from the minority that are having problems adn are the ones that are prone to complain. I didn't have any problems with my Visor and didn't make any noise. You'll see that with almost any business. Happy customers are quiet and content, unhappy customers are the ones that you hear from.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

Geez, Ken. I'm not one to go easy on Handspring, but your 60% claim seems alittle distorted. Given that Palm's PDAs also have scratched screen problems (often mentioned on usenet and on general Palm BBS), the odds of your having an experience with a Visor that is on a par with a Palm PDA are really more like 90.3% (understanding that the survey may not even be representative of this web site's members).

64.73 % (591) No problems
15.12 % (138) Scratched screen
7.67 % (070) Minor problem(s)
2.74 % (025) Major issue - HS fixed it
Total votes: 913

That is not as good as it should be, but it isn't as bad as you are trying to make it.

That said, there is little doubt that the "6.02 % (055) Major issue - still waiting on HS" is proof of a significant need for tech support. Add the long waits on hold for tech support (on the customer's dime no less!), and you've going to get alot of bad word of mouth. Hopefully Handspring will correct this before it gets any worse.

BTW, if someone from Handspring is lurking, please provide a toll-free number for customers with warranty claims. Please don't force them to call tech support. Charging folks to place a warranty claim is like fighting a fire with gasoline.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

Ken:

I read your posts and could not help but laugh. You are predicting doom and gloom from handspring based on a few disgruntled customers and an unscientific poll. Remember only unhappy customers will post that they are unhappy on boards like these. As I read in a post by the site owner a few weeks back "customers don't call their electricity company to tell them they have light." Handspring has sold tens of thousands of these things to mostly happy customers. I would estimate that about 95% of Handspring's customers are satisfied with the product. This may be lower for the service that is being provided, but that will only get better as times go by not worse. The positive changes taking place is already reflected in the significant drop in the amount of negative posts posted here and the positive posts that are springing up. Don't kid yourself, Handspring is here to stay.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

Yucca:

I think the pay number is in place to prevent folks from abusing the system. That is, they call for every conceivable thing that goes wrong with the product instead of reading the manuals and attempt to rectify the problems themselves. I suppose you could argue that the toll-free number should be for warranty calls only. But the reality is that customers like myself is going to call it for issues other than warranty, tying up the phone lines for legitimate calls.

Just my 2 cents.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Ken,
You have some interesting points and opinions. I am on my second Visor (lost first), and have had no problems. I have two modules- the 8MB flash and the Backup modules. I will wait for the other modules to come out. No one else is even attempting an open platform expandable PDA. The nearest competition comes from the Palm Pilot, which originally wasn't expandable at all. FYI- every new product has glitches- and every new company has to deal with customer service problems. Outsourcing for CS is about the only way for small companies to actually deal with their customers in a timely fashion. Handsprings' real mistake was in keeping the company they hired on the phones. I'm sure there's some real hungry young companies that would love to have their account.
All that is conjecture, opinion, and supposition. For a good dose of straight data, just check out the numbers of new memebers on VisorCentral (on the homepage) that are added each day, and this is just one site on the web.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

Okay, I�m just going on perception here. The whole PDA market is set to explode � everyone�s getting in on the action. I heard a prediction this morning that by 2003, 20 million Americans will be using wireless communications (cell phones, PDAs, pagers, whatever). That�s incredible.

I just question whether or not Handspring will be able to keep up. I mean, you have Palm teaming up with Nokia, Microsoft teaming up with Motorola, Ericsson teaming up with Symbian, etc, etc. (I may be off on some of these partnerships, but I know the three cell phone giants are currently working with popular PDA related companies). How will Handspring ever compete?

I understand LennyV�s view. Buy the Visor, get three years use out of it, and then move on to another PDA. BUT, with Handspring, you�re not just buying *one* unit. You�re buying a keyboard ($99), a modem ($139), a MP3 player ($129?), software ($100?), a case ($35), GPS ($129), etc. One can easily fork out over $500 just for the extra bells and whistles.

My point � if I�m going to dish out that kind of cash, I want Handspring to be around for a *LONG* time. I want all my Springsboards � over $500 worth - to fit nicely into the Visor III in 2002.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: bright side of the moon.
Posts: 996

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken:
BUT, with Handspring, you�re not just buying *one* unit. You�re buying a keyboard ($99), a modem ($139), a MP3 player ($129?), software ($100?), a case ($35), GPS ($129), etc. One can easily fork out over $500 just for the extra bells and whistles.

My point � if I�m going to dish out that kind of cash, I want Handspring to be around for a *LONG* time. I want all my Springsboards � over $500 worth - to fit nicely into the Visor III in 2002.

---

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 11

Apple PDA is a hoax, at least as we know it. All the "inside-info" I've seen about the Apple PDA isn't real, but more of a wishlist of features that users have created. Not to say that Apple won't make a PDA, but I'm not going to assume without a fact base like most seem to be doing.

---Ned Scott

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

All of you have some very good points on both sides. I did that poll because some people read the Troubleshooting section and thought that the Visor was a lemon. Going by the (unscientific) poll it is not. As others have mentioned, screen scratches and other minor problems are common on Palm-branded models as well. Both Handspring and Palm have on their websites how to reset the devices.

You mention 2 bad posts in the O/S forum, but what about the "Great Service" and "Customer Service Kudos" posts that are also there?

There is always something coming "down the line." Although I write for VisorCentral, I tell prospective PDA buyers about Palm organizers as well, because different people need different things. But if I keep waiting for the "perfect PDA," I will never stop waiting.

Buy what you need right now. If you need an organizer with expandability at a low cost, go with the Visor. If you need a thin PDA or a color PDA, then Palm may be what you need.

I see people buying a new PC that costs thousands of dollars every two years. Talk about a negative ROE. Buying a new PalmOS device every 1.5-2 yrs IMHO is more satisfactory.

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 17

I am still amazed by the speed and vehemence with which people look to predict the doom of any and, nearly, all, new companies.

I heard the same malarkey about Palm when the Window CE operating system came out. I notice Palm is still around.

I took an VERY unscientific poll of ten people I know with Palm or Win/CE units. The results? 60% had no or little trouble with their units. 2 had Palm units fail right out of the box (one Palm Vx and one Palm IIIx), one had a Win/CE unit go bad after a week and the 4th had a Palm IIIx drop dead after two months. I didn�t ask about locking up and hard-resets. If you own any computer product long enough you will do a hard reset. Had to do it twice with my Win/CE unit. (I didn�t include myself in the poll)

All but three reported some screen scratching (you think the fellow that came up with the Write Rights was just waiting for the Visor to come along?)

What does this prove? NOTHING. A samples size of thousands might prove something.

The Visor is a superior product that has had the same problems as every other PDA on the Market. We all know what it offers; I won�t re-till that soil here.

Waiting for a PDA from Apple is ridiculous. They already left Newton owners high and dry with nary a moments notice. The Newton was a dog that only the most dedicated Apple freak could put up with for long. My best friend had two Newton�s. Each died an ignominious death and he now has a Palm Vx (one of the ones that died right out of the box). If Apple does offer a Palm based unit, it will have the same benefits as the Palm and maybe something interesting like the springboard but it will not rewrite the history of Palm top computing.

So please, spare us your predictions of doom and gloom. Handspring is backed by some big Silicon Valley money, the product is selling like hotcakes through the website (which is why it is not in stores yet) and the Springboards are coming out as quickly as the THIRD PARTY vendors can develop them. Remember, the technology has only existed for less than a year. New product ramp up is not an overnight affair.

It is a good solid product. If you want one, buy it, if you don�t, buy the Palm or a Win/CE unit, but stop trying to justify your overt dislike of anything that dare compete with Palm.


------------------
oh well, nothing ever changes, does it?

[This message has been edited by grumpy ol' man (edited 02-28-2000).]

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 32

you said it grumpy!


representin' NJ!

[sheepishly]sorry, just getting a little "patriotic"...



------------------
seanseanadams
your friend and mine

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken:
BUT, with Handspring, you�re not just buying *one* unit. You�re buying a keyboard ($99), a modem ($139), a MP3 player ($129?), software ($100?), a case ($35), GPS ($129), etc. One can easily fork out over $500 just for the extra bells and whistles.

---

And you would be better off how if you bought one of Palm's PDAs? Accessories for the III won't work on the V. Accessories that clip on both ends of the long axis of the III won't work on the IIIc. It is doubtful that you will ever be able to get an MP3 player for a Palm III or V. Hoser has already pointed out that the compatibility of Springboard modules is assured for the forseeable future.

RE: partnerships

Anyone who partners with Palm is validating the operating system - - not just the hardware! Any partnership with Palm only further legitimizes and enlarges the market that Handspring plays in. Further, Handspring doesn't have to own the Palm OS market to be successful. It is not even clear that they have to be a major player to be successful. And, if you're worried about cell phones killing the Visor, consider this: a cell phone Springboard module that is outfitted with bluetooth. Now add a wireless ear piece and a coin sized wireless microphone that you clip to the inside of your shirt or blouse. Beats any conventional cell phone that I can imagine!

No. I've seen no announcement for such a product. But if a dunderhead like I can conceive it, you can bet that at least one vendor is only waiting for the right conditions to develop such a product.

[This message has been edited by yucca (edited 02-28-2000).]

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

And the punches keep comin�!!!

Can I say one last thing before the Visor jury sentences me to a lifetime of Apple PDA punishment � without parole?

Like I mentioned before, the Visor seems to have a lot of potential. It�s very attractive. That�s why I keep coming back to it. But I don�t see the Visor as a $250 investment. When all is said and done, I see it as closer to a $1000 investment. Maybe I'm a tight wad, but when it comes to that kind of money, I usually don�t throw caution to the wind.

You buy the Palm III, then the Palm IIIx, then the Palm V, then the Visor Deluxe, then the Visor Deluxe III, etc. I guess that�s what our economy is based on, huh? This endless treadmill called consumerism. Well, I guess I�m just looking for that Holy Grail of PDA�s � the one that tops them all. I want to buy my PDA without getting on the treadmill.

Maybe I�ll just buy VTech�s PDA?