Registered: Nov 1999
Location: CA
Posts: 6

I just have a feeling.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: East Lansing, MI, USA
Posts: 126

AHHH SHUT UP ABOUT LAWSUITS!!! Go to the Off Topic forum if you want to talk about that. It's been beaten into the ground in that forum.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 95

Dittos, Nutt!

MJH <><

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 62

Uh . . . a class action lawsuit can be filed when people have been harmed by a product or service where a person(s) or corporation's actions are willfully harmful or grossly incompetent. I don't think "I had to spend 3 hours on the phone" or "It took 7 weeks to get my PDA" or "I was really frustrated" count as good reasons. Really, I'd swear these things were life support systems that people's lives were depending on, sheesh.

Thats the price we pay for living in an instant gratification society, the death of common sense.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

Yeah, the idea of a class action suit is ludicrous... "I lost no money but I was really, really annoyed!"

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: CA
Posts: 6

I guess your credit card hasn't been charged $257.50 twice for a total of $515 bucks.

And yes, still no Visor. I'm sure the credit card is gonna want their money quite promptly....don't you think we deserve the same kind of service? especially if we've already paid for it?

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: East Lansing, MI, USA
Posts: 126

Then decline the charges and send the damn thing back. Jeez. Besides sueing them will cost more then waiting for your visor to come.

[This message has been edited by Nutt (edited 11-30-1999).]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Posts: 7

A lawsuit would NOT be unreasonable if damages resulted from over-billed credit cards/debit cards (overdraws etc.). While I appreciate some members of the forum may be Handspring "fans," the way this business has been conducted has been POOR, and in many instances deceitful (not answering e-mail cancellations for example). There IS just cause for a class action suit if the numbers are out there. I have received my product, and am pleased with it. However, I tried repeatedly to cancel my order (via phone, e-mail) and was unsuccessful. If I were double billed, YOU BET I would be considering legal action. This is THEFT!

For all of the disgruntled, keep on. For the rest, I hope you are not business people. If you are, I hope you don't consider Visor a role model. If you do, please let me know before I do business with you.

David E. Miller, MD

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

Hmmm... Overreaction methinks.

It seems that the people on this site who have been double-billed for the most part (ie. not all) have received two Visors. Annoying and a hassle for sure. A few have received nothing, but will probably get it later, albeit after a while. Those who only received one Visor who were double-billed will likely get a refund, considering the acceptable service the other people who ordered online after Oct. 25 have gotten. While I think the service has been terrible overall, there has been nothing to prevent each and every one of us from just going out and buying a Palm Pilot. Hey, we paid by credit card (usually) not cash, and a Palm IIIe goes for about US$155 here - even cheaper than a Visor Solo.

The main problem is the delay and the fact that many on the site didn't get their Visor right when they wanted it. An annoyance for sure, but definitely no grounds for a lawsuit, unless Handspring goes under and swallows up all our money.

Eug (MD also, since we're throwing around our degrees, or did you mean Maryland?)

P.S. I ordered Oct. 23 and still have received nothing. On the other hand, I haven't been billed for anything yet either.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 9

I'll throw in my two cents. I ordered my Visor Deluxe on October 6, and still haven't received it. I got fed up with Handspring's inability to deliver a much hyped product in a timely fashion.

So I cancelled my order on October 20th and ended up doing what Eug recommended. I promptly bought a Palm V that same day on Outpost.com and had it the next day (overnight shipping free!).

Not trusting Handspring's CSRs, I called to make sure that my order was cancelled. It wasn't. This continued for five calls and one e-mail. A week and a half ago my credit card was charged. I still haven't seen the thing show up on my desk at work. I even fired off a disgruntled e-mail to Ms. Dubinsky (if you want to see the e-mail I got from Ms. Dubinsky,you can read my 11-23 posting in the "Cancelled Order Log").

I'm not sure about the lawsuit thing, but if I could bill (at my freelance billing rate) Handspring for the time that I've spent to fix their mistake, they'd owe me a lot of money.

On an unrelated note, I spent an hour on hold today trying to get through to their "Customer Care" (oh the irony) department. They just don't get it...

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Enumclaw, Wa
Posts: 268

About the credit card...DUH! Just refuse to pay it. Nothing is wrong with that and is perfectly legal. Did the product ever hurt or harm you in anyway? I dont think so. Much less the other people which you need to have for it to be a class action suit. I suppose someone could Sue them. But it certanly wouldnt be class action, and it would cost more than the unit itself.

[This message has been edited by D ev R ay 4Real (edited 12-01-1999).]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: CA
Posts: 6

maybe i wasn't clear enough. There is nothing to send back. As in.....they haven't sent me anything!! Billed twice. Granted I did order on Oct. 29th, so i'm still clinging with some hope. Everyone has tried the 800 number. I myself have never gotten through. I've hung in there about 1 hour on 3 different occasions, but I do have a day job....now there's a new ball of wax. That would suck if i got fired while on hold trying to get through to Handspring. I've accepted the fact that if I cancel my order.....the Visor will still arrive......and then i'm sure i'll get billed again. I give up. I'm sure the Visor is a great product, but do we honestly want to refer our friends to a company with these kinds of business practices?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Posts: 7

I wonder if anyone has missed an important payment because a debit card was double billed? Health insurance premium, mortgage payment, tuition payment, car payment. You get the point. Think Handspring will be willing to help out with THAT problem?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Posts: 7

I am a physician in a procedure-related field. Do you think patients (or insurance companies) would come after me if I billed for procedures I never performed? Handspring has billed some of you for a product that you have not received (or even double billed), and they have not been forthcoming with their "information." The scale may be different, but the concept is the same. Fraud is fraud. As I have said, I received my product, but I tried unsuccessfully to cancel it several times. I am pleased with the device, but find the distribution process to be highly suspect. There is a problem here.

If you win a lawsuit, it does not cost one thin dime.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: New York City
Posts: 24

<<<<An annoyance for sure, but definitely no grounds for a lawsuit, unless Handspring goes under and swallows up all our money.>>>>

Eug,

If a lawsuit were to be brought against HS, it better be brought *BEFORE* HS goes "under" thats for sure! Why? Simple...

Anyone still waiting for HS product better really hope that HS does not go under (you mean Bankrupt right?) If they do go Bankrupt, it would be a miracle if billed customers-in-wait receive even $3 back from the $250+ they've been billed for. In Bankruptcy, *ONLY* "Perfected Secured Interest Creditors" get *SOME* of the money lent to bankrupt debtors (usually %75-%80 at most). Then the Bankruptcy Trustee gives the little left over (if anything) to unsecured creditors.

As a HS customer, you (and I am speaking generally know) don't even fit into any of those categories. Plus forget about suing HS on other grounds because if they go bankrupt, they'll be "judgement proof" against claimants such as disgrunteled customers.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

"If a lawsuit were to be brought against HS, it better be brought *BEFORE* HS goes "under" thats for sure!"

Yes, you are correct of course. Actually I realized that just after I submitted the reply but forgot that we could actually edit these messages. Ooops. Now that you've picked it up I guess it's too late to edit it out.

Anyways people, I agree with all of you that the service has been lousy. Maybe it's just that I expected to wait 2-3 months for my Visor and had no belief at all that the thing would arrive in 4 weeks. I am a bit surprised at the lousy ordering system, but I am not surprised it's taking this long. The main point it doesn't seem to me at all that Handspring is acting with malice - they just have a moronic set up.

I dunno. As far as I'm concerned, the people who are talking class action lawsuit are just barking up the wrong tree. The rare few of you who have waited weeks with no received Visor have at least a legitimate concern. The rest of you who have not yet been billed: If you're that concerned, spend the few bucks and tell your credit card company to block that transaction if possible. It just seems a heluvalot easier than a class action lawsuit after the fact.

It's funny... I just purchased a townhouse in a condo/townhome complex that has not yet been built. The closing dates have been pushed back continually, yet NOBODY is even considering the idea of class action lawsuit, despite the fact we all paid 10% down. Makes the $250 of a Visor seem almost irrelevant. Why are we not complaining more? Probably at least part of it is that we know the company is trying to deliver the product, and it hopefully will be a very good product. The cranes are already in, and the foundation has been poured, and there are workers there daily doing their job. Plus, legally they are allowed to push the dates back, and the purchasers are aware of this fact. Similarly, nowhere does it say that Handspring is legally obliged to provide each and every one of us with a Visor within 6 weeks.

Those of you who want your billed money back now have a real beef. But you are in the minority. It the rest of the people who are the gottahavitrightnows who are also talking lawsuit that I especially think are overreacting.

Let's just agree to disagree.

----------

Hmmm.... Checked into the credit card thing. See my new topic.

Eug


[This message has been edited by Eug (edited 12-02-1999).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Baltimore MD, USA
Posts: 717

Eug said

quote:

---

The main point it doesn't seem to me at all that Handspring is acting with malice - they just have a moronic set up.

---

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: tucson
Posts: 3

I Was billed twice for a Visor. And it is causing probs with bills . They said they would credit finance charges on my debit acct but so far I have not seen a credit.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Posts: 45

I'll have to take issue with buffalotom's statement that the Visor is a "much hyped product." I've not seen an advertisement for any Handspring product anywhere, unless you count their own website, which I don't.

Otherwise, I don't think it's smart to start a suit over being angry. You should only start one if you're damaged. If you've been overbilled and it caused checks to bounce and fees to be assessed, then you should be able to demand compensation. But waiting on hold for a long time, though frustrating, is not what I consider damages.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 9

No advertisements, true. However, if you frequent ZDTV, CNET, or other similar sites, you would know that there were a lot of articles written about the Visor.

<I'm not sure about the lawsuit thing, but if I could bill (at my freelance billing rate) Handspring for the time that I've spent to fix their mistake, they'd owe me a lot of money.>

Like I wrote in my earlier post, I said "I'm not sure..." and "If I could..."

The comment about my time on hold was an aside ("On an unrelated note..."), not legal ground to stand on for a lawsuit. You assume too much. Try reading a little more carefully.

And for the other person wbo suggested that it was as simple as refusing to pay it - it's not that easy. Unless you don't care about your credit rating. Credit card companies (First USA, in my case) don't let you block transactions; they just allow you to file a dispute. So now I'm stuck with a credit card account that I cancelled, but is held open as long as this charge from Handspring is on my account. That's just one more account that I need to keep tabs on.

So Handspring took money from me that they shouldn't have. And now they're dragging their feet in resolving this situation.

As an addendum to my earlier post, I finally got through and demanded to speak with one of the CSR managers, and told her that I was fed up with their inability to get anything done (and done right). I told her that I fuly expected her to do whatever it takes to get my credit card situation fixed. And I told her that I expected a phone call to notify me as soon as they've rectified the situation. She (the manager) agreed to do this.

So now I'm waiting to see if they can manage to get this done right...