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Rechargable battery Woes. Please Help.

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Topic: Rechargable battery Woes. Please Help.    
Keith
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 12

Angry

When I bought a Visor about two months ago, I also invested in four NEX cell batteries and a charger for them. Since then I have been rotating the batteries only when the Visor gives the first low battery warning. I have been getting about 5.5 hours per set. Yesterday one set suddenly gave out on me after only about 90 minutes of runtime. I came home, switched sets and the new set is causing problems immediately. The batteries barely register half full in the battery gauge and drop off extremely quickly. Within a minute the Visor says the batteries are low and if I ignore it the palm switches off (so the battery must really be low). This can't be a software thing because I hard-zapped it. I took the batteries out and left them out long enough to clear the Visor. When I put them back in -- same problem. It isn't a hardware problem because I stuck some normal alkalines in and they registered just fine.

Since I'm only switching the batteries when they're low, they can't have gotten a memory at a high mark. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?!! Are these stupid rechargables only good for 3 or 4 charges? Why did I buy them? Shouldn't they last 1000s of charges?! I'm completely dismayed. I spent some good money on these batteries and the charger. I'll be pissed if I just have to abandon them for alkalines instead.

Any help is deeply appreciated. Thank you.

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Keith is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 06:20 AM
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PDAENVY
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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

Sounds like your batteries are bad. I returned a dead rechargable and got a replacement. Since then they've worked swimmingly!

My advice: contact the place you bought them from and see if they will replace them.

Good luck!

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Jeff

PDAENVY is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 02:04 PM
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MarkEagle
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

I think your problem is that the Visor by default recognizes Alkaline batteries which have a different voltage "profile" from the rechargable NiMH's. To change the profile to NiMH, go into the MemoPad app and create a new blank memo. Do a "shortcut" (looks like a lower-case cursive L) "." "7" until "[NiCad]" appears in the memo. NiCad and NiMH have very similar profiles.

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MarkEagle is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 02:10 PM
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Keith
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Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 12

switching battery type on Visor

I already did that.

As to the bad batteries. Remember I bought four, two sets, and both sets are acting bad. How likely is that?

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Keith Wiley *
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Keith is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 03:11 PM
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echinye
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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 58

Unhappy

I too have the same problem with my Rayovac Rechargeable Alkaline. When I use it for the first time right out of the package, it's fine. Then after I recharge them, the usage time for Visor gets shorter and shorter.. till it was down to 60 minutes usage time!!

Gave up on the rechargeables. Using regular alkaline, runtime 8 hours with 78% battery power left.

echinye is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 05:18 PM
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PDAENVY
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

Maybe you have 2 bad batteries, one in each set. Have you shuffled the sets around?

Like I said, I have had great luck with rechargables, so it's not just "Visors can't use them."

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PDAENVY is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 06:26 PM
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Madsman
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Registered: Aug 2000
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Posts: 9

Rechargable Battery Life

What SHOULD you expect for NiMH and rechargable alkaline battery life? I have always experienced a slow diminishing curve of battery life on every rechargable device I've owned... cell phones, cordless phones, batteries... etc

Curious, because I haven't decided whether or not to get em for my visor yet.

Madsman is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 07:04 PM
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PDAENVY
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

I got my NiMHs here:

http://thomas-distributing.com/nexcell-aaa-t.htm

quote:
* "AAA" format fits most electronic devices and are a direct replacement for "AAA" Alkaline and NiCD batteries.

* Latest technology - 650mAh ( 700 mAH Typical ) capacity means super long run time!

* Last up to twice as long as ordinary rechargeable batteries ( 650mAh capacity)

* Can be recharged hundreds of times !

* No memory effect, means you can recharge these new technology NiMH Batteries at any time.

* No need to wait until they are completely discharged before recharging these new NiMH battery cells.


These new technology NiMH Batteries will also last 2 to 3 times as long as the old NiCAD rechargeable type batteries and 30% longer than older generation NiMH batteries



emphasis mine

Also look at:

http://thomas-distributing.com/nimhbattery-faq.htm

quote:
Question #6:
Do your NiMH batteries lose any capacity during their useful life ?
Answer #6:
Yes they do lose some capacity, but it is normally very, very gradual. This is true with all rechargeable batteries, but some have a very high rate loss. Our NiMH batteries are designed to have a much longer cycle life than older generation NiMH batteries. Normally after 300 - 400 cycles, battery capacity will decrease 10 to 15%. Keep in mind that this is the amount of charge the Batteries will hold not the quality.

Question #11: I was removing my NiMH batteries from my charger and I dropped one of them on a concrete floor. Now that battery does not want to take a charge. is it possible that by dropping it I damaged it somehow ?
Answer #11:
Yes , by dropping this battery you have probably caused some internal damage. These batteries are like any rechargeable battery such as your car battery or any other piece of electronic equipment. Dropping can cause severe damage ! If you do drop them we recommend replacement. Even if no damage is apparent, the battery could later develop a short or a leak while in the equipment and then cause even more damage.

Question #22: Will it hurt the NiMH batteries to run the voltage down to 0 volts? I accidentally left the radio on and ran them down to nothing. They seemed to charge ok although is there any capacity loss when this happens? - Bill
Answer #22: Bill - Usually no capacity loss occurs, but this could possibly damage the batteries.. There is the danger of causing the batteries to reverse voltage, and then they will no longer accept a charge. Since you were able to get them to accept a charge, you may be okay.



and:

http://thomas-distributing.com/techfacts.htm


Did you ever run your batteries down to zero?

Did you ever drop your batteries on a hard surface?

Either of these could kill your batteries.

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PDAENVY is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 07:21 PM
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bregent
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Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 170

I've been using the same 2 sets of Rayovac Renewals for a year now. I still get about 9 hours usage from each set (down from 12).

NiMH's will provide even more cycles. Don't let a few bad reports sway your decision. Rechargeables are much more cost effective and much more friendly to the environment.

I would be curious to see what the voltage is after a recharge. If you can check each cell individually that would be great. Otherwise, the combined series voltage as reported on the Visor by one of any battery voltage reporting utilities would help too.

bregent is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 08:06 PM
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MPM
Member

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

Exclamation Charger could be bad

The charger could be bad. That could explain why both sets of batteries are exibiting the behaviour you describe.

MPM is offline Old Post 09-01-2000 08:43 PM
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hkyslif
Member

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 121

Also, don't forget that you have to leave the charger plugged in all the time if the batteries are in it, even when they're done charging. Leaving them in the charger with it unplugged will cause the batteries to drain. I found this out the hard way when my son moved my charger and plugged it into the socket controlled by the light switch on the wall.

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hkyslif is offline Old Post 09-02-2000 03:11 PM
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MarkEagle
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

Post On the subject of chargers...

I have found that a good charger is very important to the use of rechargeable batteries.

I recently purchased a Maha MH-C204F conditioning charger from Thomas Distributing that has given my 4-month old NEXcells 50% longer runtime (12 hrs vs. 8 hrs). Using my old Radio Shack 13-hr charger (No. 23-418), my battery life seemed to degrade slightly with every recharge (8 hrs runtime down to 4). The charger and batteries were always quite warm as well; the Maha doesn't seem as bad.

Basically, a conditioning charger discharges the batteries completely before charging them. I know that NiMH's don't suffer from the "memory affect" that NiCad's do, but my real-life use seems to indicate that conditioning also helps the NiMH's. The FAQ for the charger seems to support this theory as well:

quote:
CONDITIONING is the process by which a charger such as the MH-C204F can revive or improve the functioning of rechargeable NiMH or NiCAD batteries - "if needed". Please note the emphasis on the "if needed". NiMH batteries do not suffer from the dreaded memory effect as do the NiCAD type batteries and NiMH batteries can be recharged at any given discharge level, it is not recommended to use the conditioning cycle constantly when re-charging NiMH batteries unless you feel that your batteries are not performing as well as they once did. If you find that this is the case then reconditioning them for the next 2 or 3 charges usually will improve or return their performance to previous levels. There is one possible scenario where we do recommend the use of the conditioning cycle more often for NiMH batteries. This is in the event that you are re-charging a set of batteries that are not quite discharged at the same levels. Let's say you have one battery that is 10% discharged and one that is 50% discharged. Since the MH-C204F has two independent charging and CONDITIONING circuits and will charge and condition 2 batteries at a time, the CONDITIONING process will discharge both batteries to the same level prior to recharging, assuring you that both batteries are properly charged at the same levels.

NiCAD batteries on the other hand need to be recharged only when they are close to or fully discharged or they will develop a memory effect and their useful life will be greatly shortened. By memory effect we mean that if you were to get in to a habit recharging NiCAD type batteries when they are not fully discharged, they will eventually hold less and less charge and eventually they will not hold a charge at all. Then in this case by using the CONDITIONING cycle in the MH-C204F you may be able to reverse the memory effect and return your NiCAD batteries to somewhat of a normal operation and extend their useful life.



Also, as hkyslif said, batteries will discharge in an unplugged charger.

quote:
...the charger can not keep the batteries fully charged if it is not plugged in. Due to the electronic circuitry in the charger, the batteries can actually be discharged by the charger when it is not plugged into a power source.

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MarkEagle is offline Old Post 09-02-2000 04:11 PM
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