Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Paterson,NJ
Posts: 10

I think anyone whou would purchase the palm over the far Superior Visor would be foolish. WHen the springboards start rolling out and theres one you want you will be sorry.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 15

Hey jquil, read my post above. If you really think that the Springboard is going to turn out useful, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Unless these things are priced under $75, you are going to have 1 very expensive useless piece of plastic. Besides, I thought the key was portability. If you have to carry around 10 different modules w/ you everywhere you go, you'll look like a 10 year old w/ his Game Boy cartridges. My money is on the Palm and it is only going to get better next year.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 79

ok PalmMan...

The Visor as all the functionality that a Palm has plus more. You say all you want is a Palm? Get a Visor anyways. Again same functionality plus double the memory AND the option to add springboards IF you want to. Personaly, I'm going to get the SIX PACK when it comes out.
Price you say??? Well you get what you pay for. So far I think the price on the existing springboards are VERY resonable. $80 for the 8 meg flash? I paid $125 to upgrade by Palm Profesional to a Palm III and that only had 2 meg.

Palm or Visor...both good choices. If I had to choose between the two.....Visor all the way.

Heyday

------------------
Visit: <A HREF="http://www.mylinux.nu
Linux" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mylinux.nu
Linux</A> Starts Here

[This message has been edited by heyday (edited 12-10-1999).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 15

Heyday

I don't disagree w/ you that the extra memory is worth it. All I am saying is it is easy to get a Palm and i believe that the utility of the Springboard is overstated. If all you are interested in is extra memory, the Visor is a better choice. But if you think you are getting a phone, mp3 player, 20 gig drive, tricorder and canopener, you are mistaken. And if you could get all those things, it would cost $1,000 and you would be lugging around a suitcase and constantly swapping cartridges.

Don't misunderstand, when I 1st saw the Visor, I was as excited as anyone. I began following this board to see if it was worth getting. With all the complaints, I'm glad I got a Palm. If things improve for HS, maybe I'll reconsider, but for now, if anyone asks me, I would say get a IIIx and enjoy.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

My take on springboards that would be useful but very hard to implement on the Palm.

1) Backup
2) Extra Flash memory
3) Six-Pak

Things that could be done for both Palm & Visor.

1) Serial cable to connect to wireless phone.
2) Modem (incl. wireless). (Not ergonomic on Palm)

Superfluous springboards.

1) Games - just load the thing into memory!
2) Telephone - buy a phone
3) MP3 - depends - I still buy one anyway. I never did like the Rio, but a standalone MP3 player is much better idea than the springboard in some ways.

So, as PalmMan knows, many of the so-called benefits of springboards are things that don't make a lot of sense.

However, again as PalmMan knows, I think the top category "makes" the Visor and therefore I chose to wait for a Visor. A huge improvement over the limited cheaper Palm series. While many would function well with the limited memory many people would not, and I'm sure most who have the extra memory can find uses for it.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: venice, ca. USA
Posts: 32

All:

Who *cares* if the other guy disagrees with your reasons for enjoying your particular brand of palmtop box.

Whoever the other guy is, you'll never persuade him he's wrong,wrong,wrong, so get over it. It's a world of diverse tastes and products.

Jesus, this whole thing is turning into a Ford/Chevy debate. Let's chat about something constructive like a features wish-list for the next generation of Palm OS, or how to persuade HS to build a sturdier screen for HVD v 2.0 .

signed, the Old Curmudgeon



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factoid
venice, ca
http://www.well.com/~factoid/

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Paterson,NJ
Posts: 10

Hey, Palmman. I already own the Brooklyn Bridge, and the 8mb module and modem module should speak for themselves. I am very happy with the visor and I really like synching via USB. Talk about a time saver. Just imagine having a large DB, you cant fit it on your Palm. But if you have the visor and an 8mb module your in the money. I think for those who are willing to wait good things will come.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posts: 75

Re: 8 MB Visor vs. 4 MB for the IIIx --

I just bought a IIIx for $199, free shipping at Outpost.com this weekend (don't think it's on sale any more, sorry).

I then went to egghead.com and bought the TRG xtra xtra 8 MB memory board for $78, free shipping. It arrived the day after the IIIx did, and now I've got an 8 MB IIIx. That's $278 versus $249 for the VDx, but I would have had to buy a $20 serial cradle for the Visor anyway.

So, in my case the IIIx was a very good alternative. I don't have the springboard slot, but I've decided that the only thing I really wanted the springboard slot for was the 8 MB flash module. I think I can live with that limitation, at least for the forseeable future.

Another advantage of buying the IIIx is that you get to sit out the upcoming format war between Springboard, Memory Stick, and Compact Flash. Apparently Sony is showing off peripherals such as a GPS unit that plug into the Memory Stick port. By buying the IIIx now, you can sit back and watch the war, and upgrade when the winner emerges.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 82

I have a palm V and a Visor delux with the backup module.... love the ability to back up my stuff while on the road... Hands down, Visor is a better machine... mainly because of the springboard....

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 143

PalmMan wrote

quote:

---

With regard to the Springboard slot. Great idea, but bound to fail. We all know that the
Springboard modules will be so expensive that you will end up having a $700 cell phone or
a $600 32 meg MP3 player. Instead, I have my IIIx, my Startac, and a Rio that I got for
$49 from Beyond.com.

---

So I guess that the 8M flash springboard I have in my Vdx right now is just an illusion. And I do want that much memory because I did run into the memory limits when I had a Palm.

Look...$189 is a good price for an organizer with the capabilities of a Palm IIIx and I'm sure you'll find it as useful and cool to own as the Palm I had before I switched to the Visor.

But...I don't understand the urge to hang around here and make up things like "$700 cell phone or a $600 32 meg MP3 player" Do you really think these Springboards are going to be $450 for the cell phone and $350 for an MP3? Give me a break!

None of us knows whether or not Springboards are "bound to fail" or destined for success. If we had that kind of knowledge we'd be better off spending our time doing online investing than hanging out on VC. But if no one ever delivers any of the promised Springboards, I think the extra functionality of my Vdx as it is in its current configuration was worth the extra $$, wait time and risk of corporate implosion relative to a IIIx. That's for me; I can afford to just write it off and go out and buy a IIIx if both HS and my Vdx die. Your mileage may vary.

mportuesi ... I don't understand the comment about sitting out the format war...if Springboards lose, will Palm figure out that I defected and ban me from future purchases?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 35

OK, well, I'm not completely against the Visor - it has possibility. When the company gets straightened out, I'll consider it.

I have arranged a list of Pros and Cons for the two units.

Pros: Visor

*8MB Ram
*Better Buttons
*Different colors
*USB
*Springboard

Cons: Visor

*Unknown Reliability
*Shipping is as slow as rigatoni moving uphill during January in Spain while frozen and covered in tar.
*Customer Service could be improved upon
*Cracks in case
*Styli scratch (not that worried about it - had a different PDA, a WinCE, and the stylus scratched it all up)
*Soft Screen (is this like writing on Jello?)

Pros: Palm IIIx

*Known company with good reliability, service, quality, etc.
*Can get one soon.
*Lower Cost
*Upgradable to 8MB (rather have the full 12MB - O/B 4MB + Xtra Xtra Pro 8MB)
*Good Screen
*Sturdy case
*Built on flipcover (just one step to open it, unlike Visor - take off, put on back)
*OK Stylus
*Compatible with many accessories - modem, gps, wireless modem
*Cheaper

Cons: Palm IIIx

*Plain old case (but I'd get those color covers)
*No removable memory
*No USB
*buttons not as good

Am I missing anything?

I was looking at the Palm IIIe and V, but the V / Vx are both more pieces of art than functional devices, and the IIIe isn't officially upgradable, although it has a cool clear case with black buttons.

What do you think?

------------------
Signing off,

C. Russell
[email protected]



[This message has been edited by C.Russell (edited 12-10-1999).]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5

I broke down.

While patiently awaiting (just over 2 weeks) I gave up. I live in Canada, and was having my BVD shipped to a friend in the States, who, in turn, would ship it to me.

*Pause*

Then I realized the absurdity of it all. Giving up hope (read:coming to my senses), and having run out of patients I walked down the street, and bought myself a Palm IIIx.

I must say, I'm very happy with my purchse. The Springboard, while promising, is currently useless. I figure by the time Modules do come out, I'll probably want to buy a nice new Palm Pilot w/ a colour screen

The 8 megs was the big dissapointment. BUT, 4 isn't all that bad. Get your hands on Flash Pro (the wonderfull app that changes 800k of Flash memory into usable memory for apps and Docs) and you're doing good. You end up just shy of 5 megs of space to work with. (Note: FlashPro does not work w/ Visor, due to the non flash OS..or sumthin' like that).

I also wanted colour. I NEEDED colour!! I'm a college student and looking "cool" comes with the territory. So, I traveled over to www.Palmcolors.com and bought me a lovely blue case. A few days later I was walkin' around with my stylish new toy. (Note: the styli that come w/ the colour cases seem to have the same sharpness indicated w/ the Visors)

For me, my new PalmIIIx has everything I wanted, colour, memory, and customer support. On top of all that, I'm happy that I've actually got my new toy, instead of still waiting for that blasted Visor to ship.

(who knows, maybe Handspring will ship me a couple anyway)

[This message has been edited by DrJest (edited 12-11-1999).]

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posts: 75

huski --

you asked about my comment re: the format war for expansion.

If you buy Visor, and springboard loses, of course you're going to be able to keep using all of the springboards that you've bought.

My point is that in that scenario, if/when you upgrade to a new unit, you'll have to buy all new expansion accessories to fit the winning slot. Also, if one of the other formats catches on, there might be accessories made for the other format that don't show up for Springboard.

A little while ago, I would have dismissed out of hand any notion that Springboard wouldn't be successful. But now I'm not so sure. Developers aren't going to commit to Springboard unless HS moves lots of units. Even now, three months after Visor's release, there aren't any third-party springboards available, because the developers are waiting for a customer base before paying for costly things like production. Handspring, by tripping over their own shoelaces, is hurting their position in the eyes of developers. And they are giving up valuable time in the marketplace before TRG enters with CF, and Sony/Palm introduces the Memory Stick.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

As for third party springboards not being available...

Most of the companies clearly stated right from the outset they wouldn't be available until Q1 2000 anyway. Hey give 'em a break. Visors only started shipping 2 months ago.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Baltimore MD, USA
Posts: 717

C.Russel said:

quote:

---

Pros: Palm IIIx
*Known company with good reliability, service, quality, etc.

---

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 10

With the "format war" between Springboard, Memory stick and CompactFlash...

Whose to say that someone won't release a Springboard Module that will allow you to plug CompactFlash cards or Memory Sticks into it?

Just a thought...

_____
yolto

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: West Palm, FL
Posts: 53

I have read through this thread, and have come to a conclusion.

1.) If you can be patient buy the Visor. If you must have it now then buy the IIIx. Both units are good and both excell in some areas and fail in others. Lets face it, all PDA's in my opinion are disposable consumer goods and within 1 year we will be tossing them out for the next generation of PDA's.
So buy what your comfortable with and ENJOY!

My decision was a VDX, I now have it and I'm happy. My best friend had a IIIx and we have compared them and we both concluded the same thing, both of us have a fine crafted usefull tool that will in all probability be replaced in 12 to 18 months.

Good luck to everyone in making their decisions.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

QL2, very good points. I think that deciding on the IIIx or VDX depends on your needs. If you need a Palm-compatable next week, unfortunately, your only choice is a IIIx. If you want to be able to travel, have a complete hard-reset and lose nothing, the VDX and the backup module is the way to go.

Everything I have seen for the costs of springboards are fairly reasonable. The MP3 player from Innogear starts at $99, and the SixPak will be ~$200. That $200 includes a 56K fax/modem, 8MB flash, vibrating alarm, and a blinking alarm. How much would that cost you if you had a IIIx? Your 8MB was $78, and the Palm modem (which is 14.4K) is $100+. That's almost $200 right there.

PalmMan, if you don't need the extra functionality that a springboard brings, that's fine. However, there will be plenty of people that want that functionality.

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Tonka Bay, MN USA
Posts: 36

When I bought my Handspring VD the majority of the Palm Pilot users in my office said, "Just wait, you'll be using it for appointments only." Un uh. The secret is the memory. They all had 2mb or less. I loaded more than 4mb in the first week before hitting stride with doing things and it isn't just keeping appointments. I extensively use it for note taking and have created a sophisticated database in ThinkDB everyone talked about but never executed.

We also keep forgetting the VD is a tad faster which might make for smoother Graffiti writing. That one I am guessing. But, people who discount the added memory as important will not realize the potential.

[This message has been edited by Davydd (edited 12-12-1999).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 15

huski-

This thread was started by a person asking which PDA would people recommend. I prefer a Palm IIIx, you prefer a Visor. Fine. (Just so you know, most people on this site, including me, can afford to write off the cost of a PDA.)

However, I would like to see you show me that the Springboard has utility beyond the backup or extra memory which I agree is huge benefit for HS. Since I have been a Palm owner for the past 18 months, I have seen alot of claims for things to attach to your PDA. Amazingly, few, if any, ever pan out. The only point in my posts has been that for new PDA users, they should be aware that they are not multifaceted computers, but rather portable assistants.

It is my PERSONAL feeling, based on 18 months of use, that Palm puts out an excellent product and is worthy of full consideration.

If you had read my earlier posts, you would know that I am not "hanging out" hear just to bash the Visor, but rather wanted to see what others thought of it for comparison shopping purposes. If the Visor feedback had been more positive, I may have been a Visor owner too (well, actually I would be waiting for one).