Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Orem, UT, USA
Posts: 22

We all know that the Visor isn't available in stores, but has anyone else noticed that neither the Symbol SPT 1500 nor the TRGpro are available from retail stores (both use the Palm OS)? It makes me wonder if Palm has written a "no-retail" clause in the OS License Agreement. I would suspect that Palm won't allow the others to sell their products through stores until it has one up on them (i.e. color). Anyone else have any ideas? Are there any other Palm OS devices that are sold through retail chains?

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: I'm not sure, but I see lots of lights everywhere.
Posts: 1287

mweight,
The reason you don't see any Symbol or TRGpro devices on the shelf is because they are for the vertical market, not consumers. The TRGpro itself is made for the enterprise or corperate world. You can bet retail stores will stock Handpring's Visor because it's clearly a consumer product.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 74

I would guess that HS can't produce them fast enough to supply the retail outlets. Once the mfg line is geared up for larger production volumes you'll start seeing them in stores.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 54

I always felt this:

If you were Palm, would you want to license your OS to some newer product and risk losing market share? Of course not, unless you had something new in the pipeline. So maybe Palm dictated, as part of the license agreement, that certain restrictions on the Visor be placed. A la non-upgradeable OS, reverse backlight, no rechargable battery, etc... whatever the shortcomings of the Visor are.

If you were to make a Visor from scratch, wouldn't you make it as good and "modern" as possible and all those above features in? How about instead of the "Visor Deluxe" having more memory and coming in iMac-esque colors, make the "normal Visor" like the deluxe visor now, and make the "Deluxe Visor" with all the spiffy features above?

The visor is a budget palm, with non budget features, but I see that when i show it to people. Show 'em a visor, and they look at it as if its _just_ another Palm. Show them a Palm Vx, and they diry their underwear. This is how Visor isnt taking away market share from Palm... inferior image...

I wonder what will happen when the Visor hits the stores. If HS doesnt get its customer support in check by then, Ill feel sorry for those who buy their Visor from Fry's...

Customer: "Excuse me, what's the difference between the Viz-oar and the Palm Five-ecks?"
Clerk: <Picks up the respective boxes and looks at the features"> ... (you can imagine how the rest of the conversation goes)

and then if it breaks and the customer has to go thru HS cust. support?! Wham! First Fry's, then HS... a consumer's worst nightmare.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Hebron,CT USA
Posts: 14

CompUSA has the Visor listed on their PDA sevice pack. I'm sure that as Handspring ramps up production, Visors will shoe up in retail.
As far as showing some one a Visor vs. a Vx, several palm users I have shown my Visor to have been very interested. 2 coworkers have even purcased one and a third is about to (Hey Handspring, how about a commission!! )

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 6

tvt,
You are partly correct. Palm does have the Palm IIIc (color device) shipping. It will be released in stores throught the US Feb 20, 2000.
I say you are "partly correct" because that is not the reason Palm wanted to licence their OS.
Palm licenced their Operating System to beat out Microsoft. They couldn't do it by themselves, just like Microsoft has to licence out their OS (instead of building PCs). Palm would rather be 25% of the effort (in hardware) and 100% in software. With the help of Handspring, TRG, Sony, and maybe even Apple - Palm OS will be the standard handheld computing OS.


------------------
Richard Kettner
Handspring Weekly Editor

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 13

TVT, regarding what you suggest as restrictions:

I was told all new Palms have the reverse backlight although I haven't seen it myself.

Although I haven't used the Palm V, I think I like using something with regular batteries better than somthing that is rechargable: I can probably replace the Visor batteries faster than I can recharge the Palm V.

However, The palm V does look much nicer and is slimmer.


I'll bet Handspring is just trying to get the bugs worked out before they go retail.



[This message has been edited by Jmiester (edited 01-28-2000).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 117

I doubt there are any major restrictions to the license for the Palm OS. The money 3com makes off the sale of the OS is probably quite close the net profit made on the sale of the unit itself.
The major mistake Apple made was not licensing MacDos. This allowed Microsoft to get in the door with PC makers.

3Com is attempting to avoid the same mistake by allowing others to pay them for the right to use their OS. It will only make 3Com richer by far than if their superior operating system was restricted to 3Com units only.

But that is just my humble view of the world

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 251

tvt,

I think that the person who (eventually) ends up buying a Visor at a store will have an advantage over us. If it doesn't work or breaks soon after purchase, it can be exchanged at the store location... He may never even talk to Handspring Customer Support, just like I never spoke with USRobotics support for my palm pilot 1000.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Orem, UT, USA
Posts: 22

I think tvt is almost correct. It would seem that if Palm weren't putting restrictions on the products that license the OS, we'd see Visors, TRGpros, and others with a Palm V form factor (I would wager that at least 80% of us prefer the Palm V's size/shape - but that's a topic for another post), and headlines about soon-to-be-released color devices by licensing companies. It makes sense for Palm to restrict others so that it can maintain its market share and "cutting edge" status.

As for foo fighter's idea about these products not being available through retail chains because of the vertical markets for which they were actually created, I'm not sure. I think there are quite a few Palm users who would be interested in buying a TRGpro using CF - allowing them to backup inexpensively (CF cards are much cheeper then the Springboard Backup Module) and without having to sync with their PC. It's also important to note that there are many Palm users that would prefer CF over Springboard modules because they already own CF storage and readers. --So basically it doesn't make sense that these products are only restricted by a lack of demand (last time I checked it takes 6 weeks to get a TRGpro too).

It makes me wonder what restrictions will be enforced upon Sony, Nokia, and other companies that have licensed the Palm OS. Are we seeing the uprising of a mobile device Monopoly? It almost reminds me of Microsoft's early years - like SpiceUmUp mentioned. Will we as consumers suffer because of Palm's devotion to owning the greatest market share? I guess only time will tell. Personally I hope that the 3Com spinoff of Palm will allow Palm to maintain its position, but maintain it through technological performance rather than Monopolization.

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by mweight (edited 01-28-2000).]

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Posts: 146

richardkettner,

I know this is slightly off topic, but how did you hear that Palm will release the IIIc on Feb 20? Have you seen the unit. Do you have any details on things like memory, batteries, form factor or anything of the like? Any info would be appreciated!

Hawkeye

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 33

Palm imposing such restrictions sounds illegal to me -- I don't think they're doing such a thing. Besides, Palm makes money for each visor (or other palm device) sold, why would they want to restrict sales?

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 45

quote:

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Originally posted by bregent1:
I would guess that HS can't produce them fast enough to supply the retail outlets.

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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: bright side of the moon.
Posts: 996

palm's IPO will be Feb. 20th...the IIIc or whatever it's going to be called, should be released shortly before that to build a little hype...considering they want to raise 368 million....

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

Sorry to be off-topic, but doesn't the SEC frown on hyping a stock just before an IPO?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: bright side of the moon.
Posts: 996

well, releasing a product is not considered hype by the SEC .... i don't think...

but it will have the desired effect.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1

Hey Guys, Everybody knows that when Hanspring first came out they said that they wouldn't go retail until sometime in 2000. And its not hard to see why this would be true anyway, with all their sales infrastructure problems, there is no way they could have sold it through retail(although it does seem to be getting much better). As far as the Symbol and TRG products, yes some people might like the idea of CF slot, but they consider themselves in a vertical market and that is who they are producing for.

-diemeister

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 2

I was told by a woman at Handspring's CS Dept that they are shipping to Office Max, Staples, etc starting on Feb 20th. Incidently, I love my visor but I plan on buying some of PALM's stock when it goes to IPO. ;-)

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 5

Palms IPO will be the week of Feb. 28. $14-16 a share.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 170

quote:

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Originally posted by geepmn:
Palms IPO will be the week of Feb. 28. $14-16 a share.

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