Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 6

I shoulda read this forum before buying NiCads for my Visor Deluxe. I did so on the advice of the Radio Shack guy, who said that the power capacity of the NiCads is slightly higher than NiMHs (confirmed on package). But now I see that the consensus is that the NiMHs are the better choice. Has anyone actually had bad results with the NiCads? Is there any reason for me to get NiMHs or should I stick with the NiCads? Thanks in advance.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Baltimore MD, USA
Posts: 717

IMHO NiCads are a bad idea.
You see, your Visor warns you when it is time to change the batteries.
With NiCads, you'll get the warning about ten seconds too late to do anything about it. The little monsters have a very steep voltage drop curve. They will go dead and everything you had on your Visor will be gone.

Get NiMH.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 6

NiCad vs. NiMH cont.

Oh yeah, one other factor in my purchase I forgot to mention is that the Handspring site expressly recommends against NiMH, saying their power output is too high and could damage the Visor...any comments on that?

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

Re: NiCad vs. NiMH cont.

quote:

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Originally posted by phdarch
Oh yeah, one other factor in my purchase I forgot to mention is that the Handspring site expressly recommends against NiMH, saying their power output is too high and could damage the Visor...any comments on that?

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Jeff

Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 6

Sure--here is is:

http://handspring.modusmedia.nl/han...isorfaq.asp#q5a

I should have said "one Handspring site expressly recommends..." since this is a European site.

[Edited by phdarch on 01-12-2001 at 04:21 PM]

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 27

I had rechargeable Nicad before I bought my visor and it really suck since a full charge one last around 5 hours before I have to replace it. I recently purchased Nimh rechargeable pack from Extend for 35 bucks, a full charge one will last over 9 hours. I love it now since I can run a week before I need to charge compared to every 3 days. Of course, if you plug the Extend recharge in every day the you rarely need to look at the battery level. I only charged fully twice since I bought the pack to test how long the battery last. Now that I know, I will plug it in every night by my desk

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 216

I don't think so...

quote:

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Originally posted by phdarch
I did so on the advice of the Radio Shack guy, who said that the power capacity of the NiCads is slightly higher than NiMHs (confirmed on package).

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Midwest
Posts: 232

And if Handspring really only expected you to use alkalines, they wouldn't have included a method of changing the battery meter to expect NiCAD voltage levels.

I've got NiMh's in my platinum, running with the battery meter set to NiCad. They work fine.

Dave

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 6

Re: I don't think so...

quote:

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Originally posted by MPM

I haven't see the Radio Shack NiCd package you refer too, but this is likely marketing hype. Batteries are rarely rated by "power capactiy". Instead they are rated by "energy efficiency". <snip>
For Visor (and Palm) users what really matters is battery life. This is rated by milliamp-hours (mAhr). For that, current technology NiCds have a 250mAhr capacity, while NiMH have a 700mAhr capacity

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 6

quote:

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Originally posted by DBrown
And if Handspring really only expected you to use alkalines, they wouldn't have included a method of changing the battery meter to expect NiCAD voltage levels.

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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

I followed the link. I think whoever wrote it had no idea what they were talking about, especially since the US site makes no mention of it.

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Jeff

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

quote:

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Originally posted by DBrown
And if Handspring really only expected you to use alkalines, they wouldn't have included a method of changing the battery meter to expect NiCAD voltage levels.

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They didn't... that's the PalmOS. Since the Visor is not a rechargeable device, naturally Handspring won't condone the use of rechargeables since it would add additional "support" issues to their tech support.

My VDx is 1 week shy of a year old and I've been using NiMH's since the second week I had it... never had any problems and have saved a ton of money on replacements. Back in December, I started using the FullCharge so now I don't even have to swap batteries anymore.

As for NiMH vs NiCad, NiMH's are superior. They're higher capacity and are better suited for high-drain applications. (they're the "standard" for digital camera's - devices that are very power hungry). NiCad's die quickly as their voltage level drops. NiMH's are a bit more forgiving. Plus, NiCad's suffer from the "memory" effect and really must be almost fully discharged before recharging. NiMH's can be safely recharged at any level as they don't suffer the same "memory" effects.

Bottom line, NiMH's are the way to go if you're going to use rechargeables. A little advice, though: invest in a good charger. The batteries can be negatively affected by an inferior charger. I use a Maha MH-C204F which is rated as one of the best NiMH chargers on the market.

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God bless America, my home sweet home...

Registered: Jan 2001
Location:
Posts: 6

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkEagle
Plus, NiCad's suffer from the "memory" effect and really must be almost fully discharged before recharging. NiMH's can be safely recharged at any level as they don't suffer the same "memory" effects.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 23

What about Energizer's e2?

I've got a set of Energizer's new "e2 Titanium" batteries in my Visor now...anybody else have experience with these? I have the backup module, so I'm not too concerned with losing data if they do the sudden voltage drop thing for some reason. I've had them for about two weeks and the battery meter hasn't dropped yet, but I never really paid attention to how long that takes.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Dallas-area, Texas
Posts: 82

Finally! something I know about!

The main difference is that you are supposed to deep-cycle (run dry) Ni-Cds to keep them from developing a memory. On the other hand, NiMHs will lose a small portion of their capacity (somewhat like a memorty) if you do deep-cycle them. I've got a set of Enegizer Accu-Rechargables in my Visor, with another set for the charger. Mine were about $4.50 a set, wich has paid off. I no longer have to bring 5 different sets of batteries on trips-I just bring the charger.

One last thing--you can use BatteryInfo or BatteryMeterHack to change the type also (and BatteryMeter lets you change the values of it isn't warning you soon enough on NiCds.

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Tim
<A HREF="http://vbq1.tripod.com/"></A>

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 47

NiMH are so much better than NiCad...

quote:

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Originally posted by phdarch
I was guilty of the same loose terminology as yourself. The package of NiCads I bought stated that the "power capacity" is 300mAhr and the equivalent NiMHs was 275 or something like that.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Midwest
Posts: 232

Food for Battery Thought.

I own a Visor Platinum. I've had it a week.
My wife has a Visor 2meg model

Using the .6 shortcut I determined my new visor's production date is 11/8/00. That is the SAME date as shown using the UP/Clock/down easteregg.

Using the same shortcut my wife's date shows 1/25/00. But her easteregg date is 31-Aug-99.

Using the .7 shortcut, there are FOUR battery options on my platinum. They are: NiCad, Rechargeable Alkaline, NiMH, and Alkaline.

On my wife's basic there are three: NiCad, rechargeable alkaline, and Alkaline.

The OS version on my Platinum is "Palm OS software v. 3.5.2H1.." My wife's OS is "Palm OS Software v. 3.1h2". I mention this since an earlier post claimed the NiCad battery setting was a feature of the palm OS, and unrelated to Visor specifications and recommendations. The H in the OS number indicate a Handspring version. I find it very hard to believe they would accidently "leave in" an OS feature if it was detrimental to the function and use of their products.

My conclusion? Use any kind of battery you want, except maybe LIon. Although The basic Visor does't have a setting for NiMH batteries, I suspect that coincided with the earlier development date and less familiarity with all the battery options out there. IN fact, I'll bet that if AAA LIon rechargeables become readily available, then later versions of the OS will support them in battery meter settings.

I personally have used all four types in my wife's Visor. Alkalines clearly have a longer useful life. NiMH last longer than NiCad. Rechargeable alkalines "seem" to last as long as regular alkalines, but there may be a slight difference.

Dave

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Dallas-area, Texas
Posts: 82

It is quite possible that something is all right to use, yet it is still 'unsupported.' I work in around tech support people who have a policy of not supporting AOL's AIM. It works fine in every case (they've never had a problem with it) but wish to reserve the right to ask you to uninstall it if your computer is acting the slightest bit funny. I would reluctantly say it's the same case with NiMHs. If your Visor isn't working, they can say "Oh, you're using non-standard batteries. That's different, then, now isn't it?" and void your warranty.

That's the way techs work. They only support what they have to. In fact, centralized computer maintence at a university here only supports Intel processors and only one size of hard drive, only sell one speed CD-ROM, one CD-RW...you get the picture. Saves them so much time you can't shake a stick at it. I know-it's a cliche. But it serves the purpose.


[Edited by thatch on 01-14-2001 at 01:15 PM]

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Tim
<A HREF="http://vbq1.tripod.com/"></A>

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 16

quote:

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Originally posted by DBrown
And if Handspring really only expected you to use alkalines, they wouldn't have included a method of changing the battery meter to expect NiCAD voltage levels.

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Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkEagle

As for NiMH vs NiCad, NiMH's are superior. They're higher capacity and are better suited for high-drain applications. (they're the "standard" for digital camera's - devices that are very power hungry). NiCad's die quickly as their voltage level drops. NiMH's are a bit more forgiving. Plus, NiCad's suffer from the "memory" effect and really must be almost fully discharged before recharging. NiMH's can be safely recharged at any level as they don't suffer the same "memory" effects.

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