Discussion > Other Areas of Interest > All Handhelds > Did Palm learn anything from Sony's S500c mistake?
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Ghost of the past...
By: Fat_Man @ 07:49 AM
Sony's first try at a color Clie (PEG-S500C) was a distaster. The S500C was released in Japan, it drew major criticism because of the dimness and dullness of the screen.
Sound familiar?!?!
Because of the vast amount criticism, the S500C never made it out of Japan, Sony mercifully killed it.
Well, I did a little research and located some pictures of the S500 next to the new Clie PEG-N700C (Japanese version)and recent picture of the m505 next to the new Clie PEG-N710C:
Look familiar?!?!
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=64
PEG-S500C vs. PEG-N700C
m505 vs. PEG-N710C
Here's another picture of the S500C next to N700C:
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65
OK...What do you think?
Yeah... I know the m505's screen IS brighter than the S500C. I am not trying to imply that the m505's is as bad as the S500C.
The point is, Palm should have learned from Sony's mistake; that a dim screen would draw a lot of unfavorable criticism and apparently it did!!
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By: Slot_Machine @ 02:00 PM
Another wise move was to get rid of those "guide rails?" along the sides of the original units.
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By: mikedemo @ 04:02 PM
Fat_Man
The M505 is a dud like many have told me.
Thanks a lot for those pics. I am now certain that I will not buy an M505 when that gorgeous hi-res N710C screen is soon to be released here. 
(Prism has the best color fidelity I've seen on and Palm yet)
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By: Gameboy70 @ 07:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Slot_Machine
Another wise move was to get rid of those "guide rails?" along the sides of the original units.
Amen to that. That piece faux industrial design almost single-handedly killed any enthusiam I might have had for the original Cli�.
Whoa there
By: bblue @ 05:33 PM
You're looking at it all wrong.
First off, the Palm CAN have a dim screen for one major reason:
Reflective Display.
Because of this, the backlight is not relied upon so heavily, and even better, in broad daylight, it looks even better than a Prism. In fact, it's the ONLY handheld I've seen that has color AND can be used in daylight!
In dark conditions, the screen looks just fine too, it's in the half-light situations that seem to plauge Palms. Otherwise, the screen looks nice.
SO, unlike the old CLIE, if you're not satisfied with the Palm Backlight, I'm sure there will be a clip-on light for it in the near future.
Personally, I think people enjoy criticizing Palm.
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Re: Whoa there
By: Fat_Man @ 06:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bblue
You're looking at it all wrong.
First off, the Palm CAN have a dim screen for one major reason: Reflective Display.
Because of this, the backlight is not relied upon so heavily, and even better, in broad daylight, it looks even better than a Prism. In fact, it's the ONLY handheld I've seen that has color AND can be used in daylight!
In dark conditions, the screen looks just fine too, it's in the half-light situations that seem to plauge Palms. Otherwise, the screen looks nice.
SO, unlike the old CLIE, if you're not satisfied with the Palm Backlight, I'm sure there will be a clip-on light for it in the near future.
Personally, I think people enjoy criticizing Palm.
1. The m505 is not the only handheld that has color and can be used in daylight. Compaq Ipaq and Sony N710C. Where have you been?
2. A reflective screen does not mean that a handheld can be dim, there are PDA's out there that have reflective screens and are pretty bright.
3. Most of the time when people do use their handhelds are indoors situations, and many are under "half-light" conditions.
4. Who wants to attach a clip-on light to the m505, won't that ruin the whole issue about the form factor?
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By: bradhaak @ 09:53 PM
To me, the most interesting thing about the whole m505 screen discussion is that the people who are the most critical, are the people who haven't used one. A number of people have looked at one for a couple of minutes in the store, but I'm not sure they even knew enough to turn the sidelight on.
Very few people that have used it for any amount of time have been critical. Yeah, of course a few have, but by and large, people that have used it for a few days think that it is fine. Anybody that uses an m505 for any amount of time outside won't want to use anything else. People that use the m505 under bright flourescent office lighting don't have any complaints either.
My suggestion to most of the posters on this thread, would be to actually use something before criticizing it. Second-hand opinions are just about as valuable as any other second-hand item.
By: mikedemo @ 01:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
. . . My suggestion to most of the posters on this thread, would be to actually use something before criticizing it. Second-hand opinions are just about as valuable as any other second-hand item.
I've seen it and held it. played with it a bit. Held it next to Prism. I find the M505 display the worst of the relective screens. The Clie N710c and the iPaq Are much brighter.
The only good reason I think Palm made their screen too dim is because the want more battery life.
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By: bradhaak @ 01:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mikedemo
I've seen it and held it. played with it a bit. Held it next to Prism. I find the M505 display the worst of the relective screens. The Clie N710c and the iPaq Are much brighter.
Did you compare it to a Prism outside? How about in a dark room? How about in a bright florescent office environment? Did you use it for a couple of days to see how it functioned in the real world? Personally, very few people are going to use it in the kind of dim lighting that is in a store. That was the point of my previous post.
In real world use, I think that the m505 display is greatly superior to the Prism and while this is very subjective, I think that you would probably agree that since I own both and have extensively used both in a wide variety of environments, my opinion is probably slightly more informed than your own. My opinion is strong enough that since I got the m505, I have not even been tempted to take the Prism out of the cradle. It is now firmly a has-been debug machine.
I am also curious about your statement of superiority of the Clie N710c display. How much have you used it? I agree that it is potentially very good, but pictures aren't a reasonable way to rate the screen. I have seen a lot of hi-res panels that hum, that flicker, and that shimmer. None of these show up in a photo, and possibly not even in hand assembled preproduction units. Until you hold a production unit in you hands and use it for a few days, statements of superiority just make you look gullible.
quote:
The only good reason I think Palm made their screen too dim is because the want more battery life.
No kidding. This has been covered by everyone that has written about the m505 (including Palm themselves).
On this same subject, did you see the pre-production review of the Clie N710c that said that while playing music, the battery life was only a couple of hours? The unit is not big enough to have a battery that can run that bright of a display and run an entirely separate computer (in the same case) to provide audio playback.
By: bradhaak @ 01:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mikedemo
I've seen it and held it. played with it a bit. Held it next to Prism. I find the M505 display the worst of the relective screens. The Clie N710c and the iPaq Are much brighter.
Did you compare it to a Prism outside? How about in a dark room? How about in a bright florescent office environment? Did you use it for a couple of days to see how it functioned in the real world? Personally, very few people are going to use it in the kind of dim lighting that is in a store. That was the point of my previous post.
In real world use, I think that the m505 display is greatly superior to the Prism and while this is very subjective, I think that you would probably agree that since I own both and have extensively used both in a wide variety of environments, my opinion is probably slightly more informed than your own. My opinion is strong enough that since I got the m505, I have not even been tempted to take the Prism out of the cradle. It is now firmly a has-been debug machine.
I am also curious about your statement of superiority of the Clie N710c display. How much have you used it? I agree that it is potentially very good, but pictures aren't a reasonable way to rate the screen. I have seen a lot of hi-res panels that hum, that flicker, and that shimmer. None of these show up in a photo, and possibly not even in hand assembled preproduction units. Until you hold a production unit in you hands and use it for a few days, statements of superiority just make you look gullible.
quote:
The only good reason I think Palm made their screen too dim is because the want more battery life.
No kidding. This has been covered by everyone that has written about the m505 (including Palm themselves).
On this same subject, did you see the pre-production review of the Clie N710c that said that while playing music, the battery life was only a couple of hours? The unit is not big enough to have a battery that can run that bright of a display and run an entirely separate computer (in the same case) to provide audio playback.
By: bradhaak @ 01:39 AM
Sorry about the double post - IE kinda freaked on me...
Yeah...
By: bblue @ 02:28 AM
Good point braadhack. If you actually read the reviews, the people who actually use this from day to day have actually liked it quite well.
Why?
This is mostly hype. Ok, I was wrong about it being the only PDA with a reflective screen. However, after going to Staples and evaluating it, I found it perfectly acceptable. Even under florescent lighting it was dandy, if not better than my Visor Deluxe. (then again, what isn't?)
I also got to use a friends who got his as an evaluation unit, and I got to take it out in broad daylight. Looked fine.
It's not up to the Prism's standards, but I think this has been blown out of perspective by Palm-bashers & Prism owners. For the size of the M505, I'd say it's spectacular.... for now.
In the overall PDA Market, it'll do the job, but I would evaluate one IRL before buying.
And I don't go near PocketPC's anymore. Don't get me started.
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By: mikedemo @ 03:41 AM
bradhaak
I just think that after the great invatitions from Handspring, Sony, & Handera that Palm would have made a bigger step in innovation. I still think the M505 has the best form factor. But The Sony Clie N710c 320x320 relfelective and bright screen totally dwarfs the M505. The photo above says it all. I got a color device because I wanna see graphics nice bright and vivid.
I just expected more from Palm thats all.
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It's all about how you spend the money.
By: yaz320 @ 03:51 AM
Hey bblue,
quote:
And I don't go near PocketPC's anymore.
I'm buying an iPaq tomorrow over a Sony Clie. For the SAME EXACT price, I get SOO much more in the iPaq.
Whats wrong with iPaqs??? Samo will probably be happy with me.
Let me know if you read this Samo, you haven't sent me an e-mail in a while :-)
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Well, at least you're staying away from Sony
By: bblue @ 05:06 AM
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised Yaz320! Wait till you see how much the OS mimics the real Windows!
--- uh oh, those scary looking guys from Microsoft are back...
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