Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

Look don't get me wrong. The Visor is a GOOD product. It would be a GREAT product if it lived up to it's expectations. I have a visor that I'm stuck with. If I sell it on E-bay, I will end up losing money in the long run.

All I really want is to be able to connect to my cell phone and surf the net - I would like to pay around $150 for this. GPS would be nice. I like to camp, hike, etc. and am seriously looking to buy a GPS. If the Geode is more expensive than a stand alone unit with equal or better features, I will pass on the convenience of a springboard versus price. I would think that many Visor owners may agree with me.

You ask what is a reasonable price for Springboards?
They should be competitively priced to compete with the existing Palm add ons as well as stand alone units, ie. GPS, cell phones, etc. Currently, they are NOT.

Honestly, I wouldn't even be writing about this if I had my springboards. It is just that when I purchased my Visor last fall, I expected to have much more in my hands in the way of springboards. Now they are very late and seem overpriced is what I am saying.

mrknowitall - Listen to what James just mentioned. There is a large investment to even begin to realisticaly produce a springboard, that is why every average Joe isn't a springboard producer. It's obviously quite an undertaking. I have an Engineering background, and consider myself technically and mechanically inclined. I would not even know where to begin to produce a springboard. Try pricing these items to get started with your springboard pipe dream....

- a dye maker for the plastic springboard casing
- circuit boards
- minature electronics components
- flash memory (if you have a good source of this, there are several springboard manufactures that would like to talk to you)
- a class in computer programming
- a class in electronics
- a class in tool and dye manufacturing

So if it's so easy, mrknowitall, then I challenge you to GO FOR IT. Make me a springboard that will allow me to wirelessly surf the web, send and receive e-mail. I will pay you $5,000 for the damn thing. It can't be done without a tremendous investment on your part. Put up $100,000 and I will pay you $5,000, your result is -$95,000. So take it from James, unless you have $95,000 to spend to prove your ridiculous point. You must have the time and money for this, because I sure as hell don't.

[Edited by JJR on 09-28-2000 at 02:18 PM]

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

quote:

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Originally posted by JHromadka
While I can't tell you which module specifically, one company told me that it spent almost $100,000 developing its module.

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<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

You confuse me..

quote:

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So if it's so easy, mrknowitall, then I challenge you to GO FOR IT. Make me a springboard that will allow me to wirelessly surf the web, send and receive e-mail. I will pay you $5,000 for the damn thing. It can't be done without a tremendous investment on your part. Put up $100,000 and I will pay you $5,000, your result is -$95,000. So take it from James, unless you have $95,000 to spend to prove your ridiculous point. You must have the time and money for this, because I sure as hell don't.

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I can try. I like to stay productive in my spare time, but why would you pay me $5000, when

#1) you have a problem with current prices
#2) you simply want capabilities to surf and e-mail

Pay me! You'd be a fool. I'd take take your 5000 bones, and

1. buy one for you
   
2. buy one for me
   
3. one for each of your friends and family so you can enjoy your spare time and..
   
4. perhaps I'd even buy one to keep your beer company.

Hey! I'd still have cash to spare to buy the beer you enjoy so much. Hope it's not Bud.

What is your argument? Why would I put up $100000 investment for one module? How on God's green earth is my point ridiculous? Basically what you're saying is that it's foolish for someone to create a springboard? If not foolish then impossible?

Your diatribe has now turned into a lecture on how to run a one man business. I think you should read from the beginning. How much do you want for the deluxe ice? Someone may really appreciate the springboard hardware that you have.

My keystrokes and attempts to reason with you are wasted.

__________________
"The Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." -- Daniel Borstin

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

mrknowitall -

Nothing is impossible, except maybe getting my point across to you. I challenge you to make me a springboard from scratch that will get me what I want. You are the one who mentioned that I make my own springboards when I complained of the lack of springboards and the high prices.

Do you not see the point that it takes a sizeable investment to produce a springboard from point zero? I will bet you $5,000 that YOU YOURSELF cannot start from ground zero and produce a new MRKNOWITALL springboard that allows wireless web access. It is not a token of what I would pay, merely a challenge to you. GO FOR IT, MAKE YOUR OWN SPRINGBOARD IF IT'S SO DAMN EASY. I HAVE $5,000 THAT SAYS YOU'RE A FOOL AND YOUR ARGUMENT IS RIDICULOUS.

It is not foolish for someone to create a springboard. I and most visor users out ther are not in the electronics business and aren't going to make our own springboards.

The point is that in MY OPINION, there are very few springboards out and the ones that are seem overpriced. You even said it yourself. I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you...go away...

As far as the visor, 8 meg ice deluxe. includes eyemodule, back-up module, cobra case. Make me an offer will accept beer or mrknowitall's head in trade.

[Edited by JJR on 09-28-2000 at 03:49 PM]

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 517

mrknowitall:

A little slow today or what? He was betting you $5,000 that you couldn't produce a SB for less than $100,000. He is not saying that he will pay you to make a SB.



With the announcement of the CDMA version of the VisorPhone I hope that some of these will be sold with a service plan, or maybe included for free! I know this was mentioned before, but I doubt it applies to the VisorPhone direct from Handspring. Since companies can buy these CDMA versions and brand them with their own name, there is a small chance that pricing will be cheaper. I think I'm just dreaming though.

I would write more, but I'm about to fall face down on my keyboard due to my entire 2.5 hours of sleep last nightsdfhjkahkfjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjsdlfhaaaaaaasddddddddddddddddd

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 85

I can see the flames rising up around the edges of this discussion. The topic is Springboard prices. Yes, they are higher than a comparable Palm product with the same features. Maybe because there are less Visors out there to lower the cost per unit. There are four times the number of Palms being sold compared to Visors right now. Palm has been selling their products for years; Visor has been out for almost a year. If we look at what Palm had for accessories after their first year, I think we wouldn't be so upset at the Visor for the lack of modules.

I also think tempers are flaring at the apparent inability of manufacturers to get their Springboard modules to market in a reasonable time. Just look at the two MP3 modules for a comparison. Innogear promised the world for a year and delivered half of what the advertised. Good Technology brings out their MP3 player with stealth fighter surprise. Both modules are good, both have their faults, but I think Innogear loses points for the poor marketing and public relations. The safe path for companies is to announce their product seemingly minutes before they hit the store shelves. I'd prefer to have a module announced, updates posted on their website, then the module released. I like to plan ahead for purchases and do some research on the product. A company that keeps the buyer involved during the development gets my respect.

Innogear did a good job of that, but failed miserably in meeting its shipping dates. I still like their products, will still buy a SixPak when, or if, it ever ships. I do wonder if it will be sold for the less than $200 as previously posted on their website.

Having said my peace, I'm stepping out of the ring for the remainder of the bloody cage match between mrknowitall and JJR...

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RadarGreg

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

I bought the Visor primarily for one reason: to have a selection of competitive wireless solutions. The people I've talked to at Handspring have said the wireless options are the raison d'etre of the Springboard slot, not MP3 players, cameras, voice recorders or other devices: those were just bonuses (but not unimportant ones).

To date, the only Springboard I've paid for is the backup module. The only thing I've been waiting for is a good wireless module. $299 is a lot of money for the VisorPhone, but since it has a 14k modem, I'm saving the cost of a modem module. And I won't have to buy a two-way pager. That SMS, email, the web and voice connectivity all in device. And I won't have to carry around another device (a phone).

So yes, if it's your intention to collect a bunch of Springboards, then they are overpriced. But if you bought the Visor just for wireless voice and data access, it'll be the best deal in town once the VisorPhone is released.

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 517

The VisorPhone includes a modem, but only for wireless access. You can't exactly hook up a landline phone wire when you want to connect to the internet (if you are away on vacation for example). The other thing is that it only works at 14.4 kbps. Compared to the other modem modules this is slow. So I wouldn't look at the modem in the VisorPhone or the other wireless modems as a replacement for the landline modules. If you need both capabilities you have to spend $100-$150 on top of the wireless module.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

quote:

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Originally posted by lennonhead
The VisorPhone includes a modem, but only for wireless access. You can't exactly hook up a landline phone wire when you want to connect to the internet (if you are away on vacation for example). The other thing is that it only works at 14.4 kbps. Compared to the other modem modules this is slow. So I wouldn't look at the modem in the VisorPhone or the other wireless modems as a replacement for the landline modules. If you need both capabilities you have to spend $100-$150 on top of the wireless module.

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James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 284

GPS would be nice. I like to camp, hike, etc. and am seriously looking to buy a GPS. If the Geode is more expensive than a stand alone unit with equal or better features, I will pass on the convenience of a springboard versus price. I would think that many Visor owners may agree with me.

I've done a little research on the various GPS solutions, and this is what I found:

If what I've read on the Geode is correct, then it's supposed to come with some sort of mapping software , with a price around $250 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

The closest to the Geode is probably the Garmin Emap. With mapping software, this runs about $300-$350. An Etrex is only $150, but if you want mapping (with your Visor, of course ) you'll be spending another $150 for the software and from $30-$70 for a cable to connect the two.

So, if you're looking for a GPS solution in addition to your Visor, then the price of the Geode isn't all that bad. If you're looking at it as a stand-alone solution, then the combination Visor/Geode can't compete. However, this is an apples-to-oranges comparison, as the Visor gives you so much more functionality than a just a GPS receiver.

This, to me, is really the heart of the matter: The added functionality, by itself, should not cost more than the equivalent stand-alone. The GPS people seem to have gotten this one right. The MP3 people don't. Maybe this will change as the market gets bigger, parts shortages ease, competition increases,...whatever. Only time will tell.

__________________
It's gotta be weather balloons. It's always weather balloons. Big, fiery, exploding weather balloons.
-- ComaVN (from Slashdot)

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

sowens -

I too have looked into the GPS scenario as well. I agree with your logic. In any case, I will wait until the Geode comes out to see the finished product, and go to the nearest North Face or REI and physically test out some stand-alone GPS unit capabilities. From what I hear, the Geode is supposed to offer features like finding the nearest stores, food, hotels, points of interest, etc. etc. I don't know if a stand-alone GPS unit is out there that offers this. Do you?

I would prefer a GPS unit that I could use on a daily basis for navigation around Chicago, be it a Geode or stand alone. It would be great to show me where the nearest pizza place is. I think that would ultimately sway my purchase decision. I really don't care if a GPS can be used with my Visor. Especially for $250...

C'mon Geode...I can only wait so long. I need my gadgets...

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 517

quote:

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US Cellular networks work at 14.4 or lower (mostly 9.6). That's why the VisorPhone has a lower baud - it doesn't need to be higher.

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Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 23

quote:

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Originally posted by JJR
Look don't get me wrong. The Visor is a GOOD product. It would be a GREAT product if it lived up to it's expectations. I have a visor that I'm stuck with. If I sell it on E-bay, I will end up losing money in the long run.

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