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Topic: I'm paying for this?!?!?!

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

I'm paying for this?!?!?!

I'm enjoying the pleasure of reading Pascal's Pensees and arguing the finer points of Pascal's Wager after having read Discourse on Method by Descartes (downloaded for free from memoware - as well ). Amazingly this expensive education is entirely redundant after the conversations on this board over the summer. Oh well, it's a good way to get that gpa up. Every little bit helps when you're on academic probation.

Aside (as per precedent): Anyone else found themselves glued to TNN for their 5 days of Star Trek?

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Last edited by dick-richardson on 10-03-2001 at 05:42 AM

10-03-2001 05:32 AM

Yorick
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

re Star Trek: no. skimming in once in a while, but I have other things to not do.
I'm still trying to figure out what happened to TNN. With all the old network reruns and the apparent lack of country music related programming it's like TBS or USA. It's no longer unique. Guess they must've gotten bought.

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10-03-2001 05:46 AM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

Are you reading them for a course?

...I've got some interesting probability reading that you might find interesting WRT the wager...

...Now that I'm strictly an English student academically, I have to get my philosophy kicks elsewhere. Lemme know if you want to thrown down..

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10-03-2001 01:51 PM

MarkEagle
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick
I'm still trying to figure out what happened to TNN...

...Guess they must've gotten bought.

TNN is now called The National Network and was purchased by CBS a while ago. They've dramatically changed their format and programming to become more mainstream.

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10-03-2001 10:34 PM

Yorick
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Out of my skull, back in five minutes
Posts: 1435

quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
TNN is now called The National Network and was purchased by CBS a while ago. They've dramatically changed their format and programming to become more mainstream.

To Quote Kyle Broflofski, "you b@stards!"

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10-04-2001 03:54 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Are you reading them for a course?

Yeah, History of Civ II

quote:
...I've got some interesting probability reading that you might find interesting WRT the wager...

My interest is piqued. I would point out that the wager turns out to be quite miniscule when compared to the entirety of his argument, however.

quote:
...Now that I'm strictly an English student academically, I have to get my philosophy kicks elsewhere. Lemme know if you want to thrown down..

I will pass, for now. Were it not for my visor, I would not have made it this far into the semester given the load I am under. The amount of work and practice necessary to adequately pursue a music degree at 12 credit hours per semester is incredible, let alone 18 credit hours on top of a 30 hour work week while raising a son and trying to remember how to be a pain in my wife's ass at the same time.

I leave my shoes tied, as a precaution for deteriorating mental acuity. I'd love to drop some credits, but am unable as that would be in violation of the aforementioned probation. I transferred to a different school to see if nursing were in the cards. The semester before my transfer was less than productive - and I am paying for it now. The past has sharp teeth.

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

10-04-2001 08:13 AM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Yeah, History of Civ II

History of Civ II? What was HoC I, Cro-magnun man invents fire??

quote:
My interest is piqued. I would point out that the wager turns out to be quite miniscule when compared to the entirety of his argument, however.

True. the little twist is the application of more modern decision theory to the wager (mini-max, maxi-min, and so on), turns out that it can be read both ways.

Yep. School is often a pain, and my visor is the only thing keeping me afloat too. I've got 6 more years...

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10-04-2001 10:41 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
History of Civ II? What was HoC I, Cro-magnun man invents fire??

lol

quote:
True. the little twist is the application of more modern decision theory to the wager (mini-max, maxi-min, and so on), turns out that it can be read both ways.

Where can I learn of these theories?

quote:
Yep. School is often a pain, and my visor is the only thing keeping me afloat too. I've got 6 more years...

6 more years will qualify you for...?

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

10-04-2001 11:43 PM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Where can I learn of these theories?

...looking for links...
Here's a start...
...Basically, if you can show that there's a chance that god will give you infinite gain (heaven) despite disbelief, however tiny that chance is, you throw an infinite gain possiblity into the matrix on the "decide against God" side. (I wish I could post a table!) You matrix is essentialy your choices down the left side (believe and don't) and the circumstances across the top (Exists & punished, exists and doesn't punish, and don't). The cells are the outcomes of your decision given the circumstances.

Ok, now you've got different methods for making a decision.

Maximax gain is the highest possible gain, and it's no longer clearly believe, b/c you also have the possiblity of infinite gain on the other side...

maximizing expected value is basically multiplying the likelyhood of the thing you can't control (i.e. god's existence) against the outcome of the decision you make. Again, it's much easier to explain with a table. Since you've got infinity in there (ah, infinity.. let's not examine that term too closely), it screws that up too, you can't decide.

Minimax loss says you should minimize loss in the worst possible circumstance. let's assume that there's no infinite punishment for disbelief. In this case, you can decide, assuming you find it to be worse to believe in god when god doesn't exist than to not believe in god when god doesn't exist.

I'm glossing over quite a bit, but the basic idea is that if you lay out the decision matrix and start to fiddle with the basic assumptions a bit, you can do all kinds of interesting things with it.

quote:
6 more years will qualify you for...?

PhD in English Lit or Comp (still deciding).

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10-05-2001 01:15 AM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Where can I learn of these theories?

Your library probably has access to abstracts (if not full text) of many good philosophy journals. You'll want to search the "expanded academic index" and the "humanities index." Both are typically hosted by Infotrac.

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10-05-2001 01:22 AM

yardie
Member

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

Re: I'm paying for this?!?!?!

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Every little bit helps when you're on academic probation.

Aside (as per precedent): Anyone else found themselves glued to TNN for their 5 days of Star Trek?

Is hanging out at VC responsible for you being on Academic Probation?

10-05-2001 02:13 AM

JHromadka
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Re: I'm paying for this?!?!?!

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Aside (as per precedent): Anyone else found themselves glued to TNN for their 5 days of Star Trek?

I refuse to watch TNN because of its bottom line that cuts into the picture. I KNOW that I'm watching Star Trek dammit! I'll just wait for early next year when Paramount starts releasing TNG (by season!) on DVD.

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10-05-2001 04:30 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

Re: Re: I'm paying for this?!?!?!

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
Is hanging out at VC responsible for you being on Academic Probation?

lol! No. Just burn-out.

quote:
Originally posted by James
I refuse to watch TNN because of its bottom line that cuts into the picture. I KNOW that I'm watching Star Trek dammit! I'll just wait for early next year when Paramount starts releasing TNG (by season!) on DVD.

You'd be a lot less descriminating in SD

. I have an addiction to feed, and TNN is only place I can get my kicks.

And thanks for saving me some time. I've been looking for the TNG series on DVD. Happen to know where I can get the Johnny Carson episodes?

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
...Basically, if you can show that there's a chance that god will give you infinite gain (heaven) despite disbelief, however tiny that chance is, you throw an infinite gain possiblity into the matrix on the "decide against God" side.

Wonderful!!! It's too bad the 'Pascal's wager' lecture is over. I'm going to have to bring it up again.

Interestingly enough, an English degree isn't out of the question. Depending on how I manage to jump through the hoops this semester, it may become reality a lot sooner than anticipated. Actually, I only got C's (and my only D) in high school English, as well as my first year comp class. Then in Comp II I screwed the curve for everybody else with a 99% - despite having handed nothing in on time. My Comp II prof. explained that my literary appeal was limited - hence the lower grades. He's probably referring to papers like the one turned in for Comp I regarding the professor's ineptitude.

__________________
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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

10-06-2001 07:26 AM

septimus
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Them Twin Cities
Posts: 1758

Re: Re: Re: I'm paying for this?!?!?!

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Interestingly enough, an English degree isn't out of the question. Depending on how I manage to jump through the hoops this semester, it may become reality a lot sooner than anticipated. Actually, I only got C's (and my only D) in high school English, as well as my first year comp class. Then in Comp II I screwed the curve for everybody else with a 99% - despite having handed nothing in on time. My Comp II prof. explained that my literary appeal was limited - hence the lower grades. He's probably referring to papers like the one turned in for Comp I regarding the professor's ineptitude.

LOL! If you're thinking about an English degree, probably want to stop thinking aobut money... the job market sucks now, and it's worse for liberal arts majors. About the only thing that's worse would be a philosophy degree...

re: profs and dissing then: you've got cojones the size of basketballs.

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10-06-2001 07:30 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm paying for this?!?!?!

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
re: profs and dissing then: you've got cojones the size of basketballs.

Thanks, but it wasn't done without ample evidence (such as student & faculty opinions, published arguments for various teaching methods, etc.) - all of which was cited in the paper.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

10-06-2001 11:58 PM

lennonhead
Member

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 517

TNG:

Yep, but it wasn't until the last day that I watched ~ 12 hours of it. I guess if you have to get the stomach bug it's best to do it during a ST marathon. Those last few episodes were really good, though I've seen most of them before. The one where Worf gets transported through the various timelines is one of my favorites. I liked the "Radioactive Man" episode too, hehe, not sure what the real title was, but I found it to be pretty funny.

It was good to be reminded of what ST should be like, now we'll have to see how Enterprise compares.

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10-07-2001 02:52 PM

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