Registered: Aug 2000
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 308

Here's something that I've said in a few other places, and I wan't to know what you think about this.

I'm sure you all know about my curent handheld situtition, so I'm not going to go in to that, but keep it in mind....

The bigest problem I see with the springbord slot as we know it now is the connector, the concept of ultimite plug-and-play is something that I think should be incorporated in laptops, ppcs, h/pc and even desktops. The connector screws this up I think, by using a non-standerd connector, I think handspring put them selves on the track to becomeing the next betamax.

So, knowing that would it be posible to implement the springboard concept in a diffrent form factor, (ie, CF, MMC/SD, PCMCIA) or would it be possible to make a passive adapter (Like the CF>PCMCIA ones) for the SB slot?

I think this is what will make the spingboard successfull; the ability to use hayes compatable modems (pcmcia or cf) that you can get for a reasonable price, and use with your laptops; or NE2000 network cards that you can use in a laptop or PPC H/PC. you get the idea. I don't want to pay for a modem for my visor and then pay for a modem for my H/PC and laptop.

Another solution as i see it, would be to license the springboard slot to laptop and PPC manufactures, but if that were to happen, I doubt that the curent modules would work; because they would install palm software, when PPC, H/PC Windows or MAC software would be needed. It's a dream, I know....

I'd like to hear your feed back on this, and maby we'd see some chage in handspings policy...


sam

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it's very coll idea!
I hope it will become true

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I've always wanted the passive adapter, a SB with a slot for SmartMedia or CompactFlash. This shouldn't be too difficult to make, should it???

Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by namja
I've always wanted the passive adapter, a SB with a slot for SmartMedia or CompactFlash. This shouldn't be too difficult to make, should it???

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Mechanically/electrically you could do a PCMCIA adaptor, the problem is the "driver" software for the devices (i.e. network cards, modems, etc..) someone has to write PALM/OS compatible device drivers or your fancy PCMCIA card will do nothing except consume battery power. Ok, you say, no problem, the "problem" is some of the PCMCIA device manufacturers are not likely to write PALM/OS drivers and I doubt they would "give away" the source code or proprietary operating specifications (intellectual property) for someone else to do it.

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Your wishlist is unreasonable since there are technical details which you haven't considered. You should read Handspring's Springboard White paper to understand the technical details as to why Handspring did not use either PCMCIA nor CF as an expansion slot.

Here is a quote taken from the Springboard White paper:

The two leading expansion methods for portable devices, PCMCIA (PC Card) and Compact Flash were considered. Both of these standards are deficient on several accounts. First, they were designed specifically as storage cards. Little thought was given to accommodating cards with varying physical requirements. Hence there are now type 1, 2, and 3 PC cards, each with different physical dimensions. PC Card and Compact Flash cards don�t easily accommodate batteries, connectors and antennas. As storage and memory cards they offer no standard for what type of software is contained on the cards, much like a floppy disk. For example, although all Windows CE palm-sized computers have Compact Flash slots, there is little interoperability between these devices. Compact Flash-based software that runs on one CE device will crash when inserted into another CE device because they use different microprocessors. Other problems with PC Card and Compact Flash involve inconsistent power management and no provision for installing and de-installing software....

...The Springboard expansion slot therefore had to accommodate a large number of peripherals now and into the future. It is undesirable to have multiple versions of something that is a �standard�. To accomplish this, Springboard is designed with an �open face� slot on both the back and top. It can accommodate peripherals that extend out the back and beyond the top of the handheld computer. Unlike PC Card and Compact Flash, the Springboard standard will not need multiple revisions to handle expanding and contracting peripherals...

...It is important that a module expansion slot have a well-defined and flexible electrical power structure. Springboard module designers need to know exactly how much power is available for their use. This was a problem that has plagued some PCMCIA devices. They would work in some computers and not in others because of different power availability. All Springboard modules can count on 100ma of current at 3.3v. If they require more current they can easily incorporate their own battery due to the open back nature of the Springboard slot.

Hope that clears things up.

Last edited by Clovis on 03-04-2001 at 11:31 AM

Registered: Aug 2000
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Ok, maby I was misunderstood, I still want springboards, and I don't care if the things that I buy as springboards are incompatable with my laptop, ie. no backwards compatibility, but I want to use my little CF modem (just an example) in my visor, it's 3.3v compliant and setup for low power consumption, it also hayes compatible like the HS modem so the drivers exist. There are also NE2000 ethernet drivers for the Palm 3 pcmcia bumper I belive.

The CF slot on the TRG pro I beivle has an open back so that shouldn't be a problem; they can make spring bord specific devices that spill out the back, or they can make standedrd type 2 devices that fill the slot very nicely, the only remaining issue in my mind is the software, and because the curent Sprigboard slot uses a PCMCIA connecor, it shouldn't be very hard to put the insatlling protocals in to a regular slot.

sam

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If you want an dget one for about $50-$70 (Kopsis has stated such a device would need a lot of little processors & such). You can get a modem now for $70, whats the point? We've already got the most important CF factor, memory. There are several older posts about this elsewhere, what is there out for CF and/or PC cards that we don't/can't have with Springboard?

Handspring didn't screw up by using the Springboard slot, the other slots simply didn't meet their needs. It won't become the next betamax either because the difference between that & this is that Springboard has large third party support. While I love Sony products, they'll continue the betamax saga with Memory Sticks because they don't have any 3rd parties making them that I know of. Every month is seems a new Springboard is announced, and now we're even beginning to see real competition which is driving prices down.

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Springboards rely on handspring, yes we have modules made by everyone, but there are 4 handhelds that use them, if handspring had chosen a CF compatible connector then there would have been 7+ handhelds and numerious other products that could have used the devices.

There are CF cards that will work as wired ethernet cards, and it dosen't look like there will be such a springboard in the near future.

sam

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One word: power

The Springboard slot can't supply enough power (it's limited to 100mA) for many of the PCCards out there. Even if there were drivers, the power issue is the major road block.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MarkEagle
One word: power

The Springboard slot can't supply enough power (it's limited to 100mA) for many of the PCCards out there. Even if there were drivers, the power issue is the major road block.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Celchu19
Well then change it

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quote:

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Originally posted by Celchu19


Well then change it, tha's kinda the point

sam

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Handspring would probably cease to exist if they licensed the SB slot. It would kind of be like Apple and the Mac OS. People would no longer see an advantage to owning one device over another. The deciding factor for mostpeople between a PalmIII or a VisorDX is the SB slot. Without that factor the III would win more people over because it has flash memory and the Visor doesn't. That's not to say I would have bought something else (the colors get to me ), but I think a lot of other people would.

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Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by lennonhead
Handspring would probably cease to exist if they licensed the SB slot. It would kind of be like Apple and the Mac OS. People would no longer see an advantage to owning one device over another. The deciding factor for mostpeople between a PalmIII or a VisorDX is the SB slot. Without that factor the III would win more people over because it has flash memory and the Visor doesn't. That's not to say I would have bought something else (the colors get to me ), but I think a lot of other people would.

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Handspring isn't going to fail because they don't license the Spingboard slot. You've come up with 1 module that we don't have and say we probably won't. Look at some of the Springboards out there, did anyone hear about the ThinModem or SoundsGood before they were released? Nope. There could verywell be a company that has listened to us and is developing one right now.

Unlike Palm, who is marked towards both consumer & vertical, Handspring is sold primarily to consumers who really aren't demanding this. Anyways, we have a WIRELESS ethernet module comming so who would want wired anyhow? It might cost more, but can't be a whole lot more than some CF Adapter & a CF Ethernet card.

I understand you recently migrated to "the other side" and in the few posts you've replied to where you answer a question rather than help the person you just like to point out some downside about Handspring.

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But I thought I read that Handspring DID license the Springboard slot. I thought that a while ago Symbol announced that they were gonna start producing PDAs with Springboard slots or something.

Am I completely off my rocker on that one?

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quote:

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Originally posted by raptor
Am I completely off my rocker on that one?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Celchu19
I aggree that it wouldn't be a good idea for HS to license to Palm, but becuse things like laptops, PocketPCs. Licencing would proobly keep handspring around longer; by licencing the Palm operating system palm is creating compitition, but it also gives palm alot of money. and To be compleatly honest, I think that by not licensing Mac brought the sealing down on themselves, they have better machines and better operating systems, but there is no competition in the mac market, and after a while people go for the intel processor.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Celchu19
I think that by not licensing Mac brought the sealing down on themselves, they have better machines and better operating systems, but there is no competition in the mac market, and after a while people go for the intel processor.

sam

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